Ever heard of "telescoping" as a timetabling term?

[Dogmatix]

It is common practice in some areas and on some routes to terminate every other (or every third) train, tram or bus at a station some stations (or stops) short of the end of the line, on the grounds that there are fewer passengers towards the end of a line, so less capacity is needed, so not all services need run all the way. In Germany, the word used for this practice in railway circles is "teleskopieren", i.e. "telescoping". It comes from the graphical representation of train frequencies of lines by varying thickness - a thick line means twice the number of trains (or trams or buses) per hour than a line half that width.

 

A discussion has erupted on a German railway forum on whether this is a German term, or is borrowed from English. However, I have never heard of "telescoping" being used in the above sense in English - has anyone here ever heard of it? Is there a English technical term for reducing service frequencies near the end of a line (apart from "bl**dy annoying", I mean)?

[10800]

My only reading of 'telescoping' in a railway context here is the tragic one of what used to happen to coaches in a severe accident.

[Oldddudders]

I've known a few train planners in my time, never heard that term. I share Rod's grim interpretation of the term.

[Trevellan]

Agreed on the usual UK definition. In UK passenger transport operations there are terms such as "short workings". Certainly, in the bus industry it is common to hear the term "shorts" to describe services covering only part of a route.

[Dogmatix]

Thanks - that's pretty much what I thought.

[D6975]

I've heard the term used to describe turning round severely late running services short of their destination in order to pick up the return working timings. (Usually slightly late in practice, awaiting connecting passengers from the original turn round point.)

Inconvenient for the passengers that have to change off an already late running service onto another that will probably be extremely overcrowded as a result, but it does get things back to close to schedule.

[brushman47544]

I've heard the term used to describe turning round severely late running services short of their destination in order to pick up the return working timings.

 

I'm no expert, but I can see an indirect link in terms of English usage. Many telescopes have 2 or more elements (like tubes but this is NOT the correct word) that adjust and overlap to allow you to see and focus on objects in the distance. This is presumably where the use of "telescopic" comes from to describe the rail wagons (e.g. the closed steel coil carriers produced by Bachmann) with telescopic hoods that pull back on top of each other to give access. This is similar to the idea of rail services that are organised to serve different destinations on a branch line. But these are more commonly known as short workings as Trevellan says (particularly for trains that are turned short of their original destination) or I've heard "flighted" if based on a regular interval timetable, where a faster train to the end of the line departs first and stoppers follow, for example:

 

Train 1 calls at stations A, E, H, I, J, K

Train 2 calls at stations A, E, F, G, H

Train 3 calls at stations A, B, C, D, E

 

So whilst I can see a link in terms of the English language, telescoping is not a term I've ever heard used in the context described in the OP - and frankly nor would I want it to be.

[The Stationmaster]

Having spent - let me see - around 14 years of my 'big railway' career eitehr partially or fully involved in just about every form of timetable planning I never once heard the word in the context you describe. What you are talking about was referred to as 'terminating short' (there was a telegraphic codeword for it too - was it 'PINE'?, not in any particular use from the late 1960s in my experience).

 

The only British railway use of the term 'telescoping' that I have ever come across - informally or officially - is as described above by Rod (10800).

[andyrush]

Having spent - let me see - around 14 years of my 'big railway' career eitehr partially or fully involved in just about every form of timetable planning I never once heard the word in the context you describe. What you are talking about was referred to as 'terminating short' (there was a telegraphic codeword for it too - was it 'PINE'?, not in any particular use from the late 1960s in my experience).

 

In 30+ years in Control Offices and in Train Planning I never heard of the term in that context. Yes Mike, PINE was the telegraphic code for terminating short, didn't often see it in the context of passenger trains, though.

 

Andy

[Oldddudders]

In UK passenger transport operations there are terms such as "short workings". Certainly, in the bus industry it is common to hear the term "shorts" to describe services covering only part of a route.

Going right back to the '60s, probably decades earlier, such services as e.g. the Brighton - West Worthing shuttles, using just part of the route to Littlehampton, Chi, Portsmouth, were knows as "shorts".

[D6975]

Interesting to note the different terms that people use in different areas.

Like 'tugs' for class 60s, I'd never heard that term till a couple of years ago, 60s were always 'scuds'.

Doubtless many members on here have never heard of 60s being referred to as scuds, but it was the name we always called them, due to their range limitation.

 

Short workings on the buses were usually called zingers or duplicates.

[dmustu]

Having spent - let me see - around 14 years of my 'big railway' career eitehr partially or fully involved in just about every form of timetable planning I never once heard the word in the context you describe. What you are talking about was referred to as 'terminating short' (there was a telegraphic codeword for it too - was it 'PINE'?, not in any particular use from the late 1960s in my experience).

 

 

Yep, the term certainly is Pine, or Pined. It was still used quite frequently when I started on the railway at the end of the 1990s, but it seems to be rarely used these days.

[Fat Controller]

I always thought that 'PINE' referred to a train being turned back short of its planned destination to recover lost time, rather than a planned 'short' working. I've certainly seen it used in this context in Incident Reports and Daily Logs; the entries I've seen in Network Rail Daily Reports seem to have a summary after incidents showing how many minutes delay were attributable to an incident, how many full cancellations and how many partial cancellations.

The term 'telescopeing' doesn't even seem to be used in academic literature about train operation in English- I had a quick look at 'Planning Passenger Railways' and couldn't see anything about it.

[Trevellan]

Short workings on the buses were usually called zingers or duplicates.

 

Zingers is a new one for me. Perhaps it's a unique term to the "Brissel" dialect.

[Oldddudders]

I always thought that 'PINE' referred to a train being turned back short of its planned destination to recover lost time, rather than a planned 'short' working. I've certainly seen it used in this context in Incident Reports and Daily Logs; the entries I've seen in Network Rail Daily Reports seem to have a summary after incidents showing how many minutes delay were attributable to an incident, how many full cancellations and how many partial cancellations.

I never heard PINE used on Southern, whereas CAPE was a (too!) regular word - but other Regions did indeed have their own forms of shorthand. It would be interesting to know if it appears in the old telegraphic messages codebooks, as these were originally designed to limit message length for telegraph and telegram systems, although some transferred into telex etc use in the modern era.

[big jim]

 

 

In 30+ years in Control Offices and in Train Planning I never heard of the term in that context. Yes Mike, PINE was the telegraphic code for terminating short, didn't often see it in the context of passenger trains, though.

 

Andy

Must admit ive not heard the term "pine" the most common one ive heard is "caped", what is the significance of the word though? I know its railway definition but where did it come from and why is it used?

 

Something ive always wanted to know but never found out!

 

Edit: dudders has kinda answered my question while i was typing!!

 

[The Stationmaster]

I always thought that 'PINE' referred to a train being turned back short of its planned destination to recover lost time, rather than a planned 'short' working. I've certainly seen it used in this context in Incident Reports and Daily Logs; the entries I've seen in Network Rail Daily Reports seem to have a summary after incidents showing how many minutes delay were attributable to an incident, how many full cancellations and how many partial cancellations.

The term 'telescopeing' doesn't even seem to be used in academic literature about train operation in English- I had a quick look at 'Planning Passenger Railways' and couldn't see anything about it.

I can't find my code book Brian but PINE means 'terminate short of booked destination at XXXXXX' or words to that effect - no reason or meaning, it is simply an instruction or information depending on whose reading the wire containing that word.

 

And seeing Ian's latest it is appropriate to add that it wasn't much used on the Western either in my experience - certainly a word I never used in emergency train alterations and trainplans although, again as per Ian's experience 'CAPE' was very well used. In fact after a period of an Englishman being in charge of the joint (SNCF/EPS/RfD) Eurotunnel liaison control at Lille it was also a word that began to creep very much into SNCF speak in that part of France.

[Trevellan]

PINE, CAPE. Sounds like something decoded or dreamed up at Bletchley Park. I did wonder at first if they were acronyms, but I couldn't make anything sensible (or clean) out of them...

[Fat Controller]

Must admit ive not heard the term "pine" the most common one ive heard is "caped", what is the significance of the word though? I know its railway definition but where did it come from and why is it used?

 

Something ive always wanted to know but never found out!

 

Edit: dudders has kinda answered my question while i was typing!!

Like a lot of railway codes, I believe that it's used because it is difficult to confuse it with anything else, and not because it is derived from

I can't find my code book Brian but PINE means 'terminate short of booked destination at XXXXXX' or words to that effect - no reason or meaning, it is simply an instruction or information depending on whose reading the wire containing that word.

I think that's what I meant, Mike- an unplanned turning back short, rather than workings planned only to cover part of a given route.

SNCF (and hence Eurotunnel) are equally fond of telegraphic code, though the SNCF ones seem to be acronyms or abbreviations ( CHEX for 'changement d'extremities'; REFO for 'refoulement' for example) rather than having no obvious root.

[The Stationmaster]

SNCF (and SNCB) ones do seem to be abbreviations or acronyms as you say. I always liked 'HLP' for 'light engine' - now who is going to have a go at the translation?

[6959]

Zingers is a new one for me. Perhaps it's a unique term to the "Brissel" dialect.

 

I have not heard of Zingers before this thread. On Bristol buses in the 1960s the term 'Jazzer' was used to describe a planned service that 'jumped about' from route to route at busy times to add a duplicate to busy parts of a route.

[Fat Controller]

SNCF (and SNCB) ones do seem to be abbreviations or acronyms as you say. I always liked 'HLP' for 'light engine' - now who is going to have a go at the translation?

'Hautes les pieds' 'with feet lifted' - dates from pre-railway days when the 'diligences' carrying mail would have a couple of spare horses at the rear, who could 'lift their feet' because they weren't pulling anything. I suppose it makes as much sense as 'light engine'- as one of my drivers said 'it doesn't look very light to me'

[steven156]

In my few years on the Scottish buses and trains have heard all sorts of unusual terms. because I am working on the railway just now I wont explain the Railway ones for obvious reasons!

 

One I probably can say on the trains is "Cowped" "Caped" - A train that has been cancelled.

 

Back to the buses....

"Short turned" - A bus terminating short before the terminus and regaining its schedule

"Blank screened" or "Blanked"- The bus continues in service but with "sorry not in service" on the destination screen and dropping off only to the terminus.

"NT" - a term used by supervisory and inspector staff to describe drivers who maybe lack dedication- "That driver is an NT"- non-tryer!

"Service Car" and "Dupe"- When a long distance journey on a service has a duplicate, the vehicle that is originally diagrammed for the service is the "Service Car" as it is abiding by the Service Registration and "Dupe"-well no one wanted to say "Duplicate"!

"Hat" - A term of endearment for Inspectors and Supervisory staff, Comes from when Inspectors and Supervisory staff wore hats to distinguish themselves,

"Turn"- A diagrammed shift.

"Dived" - When someone has phoned in sick

"Cowped" "Caped" - A train that has been cancelled.

"Scratching"- When one bus driver intentionally wont overtake another so they can hang behind the bus in front to let him/or her in front do all the work- use your imagination for this one!

"Muppet" - A term of endearment for those over 60 who are awkward.

"Step up" "Stepped up" when a staff member or resource has been swapped around.

"Sick bus" a bus that has been soiled by a passenger.

 

Theres plenty more, just cant remember them!

[Rivercider]

I worked in Swindon WR HQ 1985-88 in the freight train planning section, and never heard the term telescoping in the train timetabling sense.

 

As a TOPs clerk we often had 'ZZ' TOPS messages from Control using the terms PINE and CAPE in regards to train running.

 

I have found a copy of 'Standard codes for Telegrams' by the British Transport Commission, British Railways dated 1st July 1958 (BR87222)

it gives the following codes for train working :-

 

PINE 'Cancel the running of trains as under'

 

CAPE 'Undermentioned train will not run. Advise all concerned'

 

cheers

 

edit for spelling

[yorkie_pudd]

The Leeds, Harrogate , York line has used the telescoping or track hopper terms in the past. Through the day quiet times trains leave Leeds towards harrogate and pass through too Knaresborough. but due to less passenger traffic from Knaresborough onwards, Trains either use stay on the York platform then head back to leeds or telescop / track hop to the Leeds side platform. This is done by reversing out of the York side onto the viaduct the change over onto the Leeds side platform. I think it comes down to local area`s as who and what terms are used for doing things.

 

 

extra info: The trackwork from Harrogate to Knaresborough has the original draw signals and modern red/green lights, both work in unison how ever they still run that the draw signal take priority over lights, so if green light says ok pass but signal is up for STOP - the train STOPS. crazy ole world.