Kirkby Luneside (Original): End of the line....

[Physicsman]

That certainly does - I'm guessing but back in the 60s / 70s it would have been desolate moorland, rather than conifer plantation? And those drainage channels round the portal - it's an eloquent comment on the weather expected round there... I wonder what they look like this evening...

 

Michael, you are spot-on there. I recently saw some photos of the area taken in the 50s/60s - can't think where I saw them. The area was a collection of open grass/scrub/heath with the usual stonewalls and plenty of sheep. Makes it a damn sight easier for me to model than making all those conifers!!

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Rob, I've no experience - YET - of hand-building track, though I'm being coerced into turnouts...may have a go next year. If you put this post onto the Modelling Tips section you will certainly get a response from the many people on here who know oodles about the topic.

 

As for buying the track, send a PM to jukebox (he lives in Perth, WA). I'm sure he knows of an importer based in Auckland who will probably get you anything you need.

 

Sorry to be so vague on this!

 

Jeff

Edited November 25, 2012 by Physicsman

[robmcg]

Thanks Jeff, have been there done that, the importer in Auckland didn't or doesn't stock ready-made track, it would take forever to obtain even if he chose to, with attendant airfreight costs. Very high costs for rare intermittent orders. I only wanted 10 or 12 250mm lengths of code 75 bullhead rail which he kindly cut and supplied with chairs and fishplates and sleepers AND eventually, after I gave up, installed the chairs onto the rails gratis.. Thankyou Paul Woods of Woodsworks! Still have to attach and gauge the rails to the hardwood sleepers though.

 

I have made myself a cardoard 'female' pattern for lines of 21 spaced sleepers, having traced the section I made in the photo, cut out using scissors, and with patience can set the chairs to approximately correct positions, the with blobs of glue should eventually have something to paint and ballast...

 

I should have made the female pattern very accurately with a ruler and some pleasantly simple arithmetic, but where's the pleasure in that?

 

 

 

edit; in any event here is the female pattern, with section no.2 begun... rails still require chairs to be adjusted and so on, but after the photo taken were removed and the pattern replaced flat under the book for PVA to set...

 

 

Rob

Edited November 26, 2012 by robmcg

[Physicsman]

Now I think about it I vaguely remember we had a conversation about rails when you were planning some of your photographs.

 

Re. your last point... solving complex problems is fun, but if there's an easier way - take it by all means! It's even better when the results from either method concur!

 

Jeff

[jukebox]

Thanks Jeff, have been there done that, the importer in Auckland didn't or doesn't stock ready-made track, it would take forever to obtain even if he chose to, with attendant airfreight costs. Very high costs for rare intermittent orders. I only wanted 10 or 12 250mm lengths which he kindly cut and supplied AND eventually, after I gave up, unstalled chair on rails gratis.. Thankyou Paul Woods of Woodsworks! Still have to attach and gauge the rails to the hardwood sleepers though.

 

*snip*

 

Rob

 

Rob;

 

Just some thoughts to (hopefully) help you along - you do such a great job with your artwork, I know there's many of us here that would like to do whatever we can to solve the track problems you are having.

 

I'm not quite sure what you want to achieve with the hand built track that you won't with off-the-shelf C+L bullhead flex? If you give Paul another call, I'm sure that he can supply you some OO steel C+L flex either ex-stock or just a few weeks delivery. Jeff is right - Woodworks is the supplier I ended up using to buy all my bullhead flex for Stockrington - and I had first class service from him, and cannot recommend him highly enough.

 

If it's sleeper spacing that is bothering you, I think cutting the webs between sleepers underneath the rail with a scalpel to re-space them may be a whole lot easier than trying to start with the raw materials.

 

If it is specific length track panels you needed, if you explain your circumstances, from the sounds of it, Paul might even be able to nip it into the lengths you need (I'm not sure if you have, or can comfortably use, a Xuron type rail cutter?).

 

12 lengths of 250mm is only 3m of track, so it isn't a king's ransom if you have to start from scratch - you could even use the stuff you've had your first attempt at as "perway materials" left beside the track?

 

Keep perservering with it - I'm sure we can help you get there in the end.

 

Regards

 

Scott

[robmcg]

I presume Jeff that it is 3.45am or something in the West Midlands, while here it is a grey breezy warm spring afternoon, however I hope you have seen my edited post above and will understand that I could easily post my previous rant about difficulties in hand-work in the more appropriate section. However I am not disposed to talk of my injuries to a wide audience, and there is a friendliness in this thread which is somewhat comforting... I hope that makes sense

 

Rob

[robmcg]

Ah, Scott, thankyou, I have had several conversations by text and Email with Paul Woods agent for C&L and bullhead code 75 flex track somehow didn't get mentioned, or perhaps early on I thought it would take too long, or be too expensive. Impatience on my part no doubt.

 

Not sure if he had bullhead code 75 flex track in stock, anyway, perhaps I will ask, but in the meantime thankyou for your concern and help. And sorry Jeff it is somewhat away from Kirkby Luneside!

 

Having come this far with the assembly of track by hand, I suppose I should continue... and will. I did feel somewhat defeated this morning!

 

Rob

[jukebox]

It shouldn't be too expensive Rob - I'll let you in on a little secret: even with airfreight from NZ to Perth, not only was Paul able to supply me C+L by the box for less than what I could get it for ex-the UK, but it ended up about the same cost per length as what I would have paid if I had bought Peco Code 70 from the local model shops here in Perth.

 

You are right - Paul may not have it in stock (although he many now carry some - he was rather taken with the look of mine when he checked one of the boxes to make sure it was all okay) - but he'll have no trouble getting some in for you, I'm sure.

 

Regards

 

Scott

[robmcg]

Thankyou Scott, (and Jeff for allowing us to try to find solutions to problems on your thread).

 

I have emailed Paul about flex track lengths, and will continue to build some sections of track with my template, but have noticed that the Black 5 on the cover of the book visible in my photo on the table .... Irwell Press 'The Book of the Black Five' Part 1 45000-45074 shows the engine spanning quite a few more prototype inches between sleepers beneath drivers etc... The picture shows a loco on a mainlne on bullhead track and I think I have sleeper spacing about 1.2mm too wide at approx 11.6-12mm so instead of 21 sleepers per 248mm I should probably have 22 or 23. I think I might make a new template from cardboard at 10.8mm spacing (23 sleepers) or possibly 11.3mm (22 sleepers). The proportions of sleeper gaps given the 16.5mm gauge are already awry... and pespective in scale is always tricky.

 

I have Hornby Black 5 5036 sitting on the track now, so it's all guns bazing tomorrow, or when I have the calm and confident demeanour demanded.

 

Phew!

 

Rob

[Rowsley17D]

Morning Jeff, been away from the 'puter over the weekend and find I have four pages to catch up on! The Tynesider trip went well apart from the lack of A4 haulage. Sir NG failed somewhere on Teesside on Thursday with valve trouble so the only part of the journey with steam was York-KX but I doubt there will be little if anything in the way of recompence, still everything went to time only a few minutes late either way. We must have had a boy racer from KX to York as according to those with measuring devices, we were clocking 100 mph in Mk1s with the catering staff trying to serve dinner. We arrived at Doncaster twenty minutes early.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Rowsley17D

[Physicsman]

I presume Jeff that it is 3.45am or something in the West Midlands, while here it is a grey breezy warm spring afternoon, however I hope you have seen my edited post above and will understand that I could easily post my previous rant about difficulties in hand-work in the more appropriate section. However I am not disposed to talk of my injuries to a wide audience, and there is a friendliness in this thread which is somewhat comforting... I hope that makes sense

 

Rob

 

I'm glad to hear that, Rob. Just keep posting here, there's bound to be someone who can help!

 

 

Thankyou Scott, (and Jeff for allowing us to try to find solutions to problems on your thread).

 

Rob

 

There you are Rob - I thought Scott was your man - with Southern Hemisphere experience!

 

Don't worry - as I've said so often, you aren't off thread here. The info being discussed could be relevant to me in the future - even if I'm not importing from NZ! Lol.

 

Best wishes,

 

Jeff

Edited November 26, 2012 by Physicsman

[Physicsman]

Morning Jeff, been away from the 'puter over the weekend and find I have four pages to catch up on! The Tynesider trip went well apart from the lack of A4 haulage. Sir NG failed somewhere on Teesside on Thursday with piston trouble so the only part of the journey with steam was York-KX but I doubt there will be little if anything in the way of recompence, still everything went to time only a few minutes late either way. We must have had a boy racer from KX to York as according to those with measuring devices, we were clocking 100 mph in Mk1s with the catering staff trying to serve dinner. We arrived at Doncaster twenty minutes early.

 

So how much of the trip was pulled by Union of South Africa? York - KX?

 

Extremely miserable day weather-wise - as you'll have noted! Just the day to be shut away in the bunker doing mind-numbingly repetitive tasks. Enjoy the 4 page catch-up...it's been manic!

 

Jeff

[Rowsley17D]

So how much of the trip was pulled by Union of South Africa? York - KX?

 

 

Jeff

 

Yes, that's all . A premium is paid to be hauled by steam and only a quarter of the journey was, but you can bet there will be no partial refund, small print and all that.

[Andrew P]

Hi Jeff, what a great thread this is with so much information from all sorts of contributors for all to enjoy, not only all things S & C or K.L. but way way beyond that. We have had Weather Forcast, Music taste, Gutars, Bridges, Viaducts, Fiddle Yards, Branch Line alignment, Canal, River, Point Motors, and some wonderfull track ideas. Just wait till you plant some grass, and I am sure people will help you with how to water it .hhaahhahaeeeee

 

To all on here you keep me looking, reading and most of all LEARNING, THANK YOU ALL

 

Andy.

[Physicsman]

Cheers Andy. I didn't start off with the intention of this happening - it just did! Thing is, there's a lot going on behind-the-scenes, linked to this thread and a lot of that has been very informative.

 

Andy (uax6) - thanks for the latest scans. The Jenkinson articles were great.

 

Andy (P) - thanks for the educational emails (!! lol !!). So good, I've sent some of them to other friends...

 

Very quiet day today. Last night's PVA has set and I've done a bit of wiring. We need someone to entertain us on here... Otherwise I'm going to start planning how I'm going to build the Blea Moor-based tunnel mouths. About time I scratch-built something!

 

Jeff

[buffalo]

Some thoughts on Rob's other questions...

...I have made myself a cardoard 'female' pattern for lines of 21 spaced sleepers, having traced the section I made in the photo, cut out using scissors, and with patience can set the chairs to approximately correct positions, the with blobs of glue should eventually have something to paint and ballast...

What many do is to use a paper template (hand drawn or printed from Templot*) stuck to a piece of wood, then use a couple of strips, say 5mm wide, of double sided sticky tape to stick down the sleepers. You will find, however, that once you remove the completed track panel from your jig or the tape, the sleepers will move around, so you'll be back to the same problem when you lay the track on a baseboard. For that reason, I build my trackwork in situ, with the template stuck down with dilute PVA, then when dry, the sleepers are fixed with neat PVA. Though maybe this would not be so easy for you.

 

I have to ask why use PVA to stick the chairs to the sleepers? Do you have an issue with solvents? If not, butanone would be much more effective. I'm surprised that PVA works on the ABS plastic.

 

Nick

 

*Templot allows you to define your own sleeper spacing.

[uax6]

I have some bad news boys......

 

...Osbournes haven't got my nudes in stock ;-{ so the photo shoot is off for the time being, which is a pain, as I can't finish off the interior without them...

 

I've also had to give up doing the lining this afternoon, a combination of paint that has past its best, a paintbrush that has now got a trendy Jedwood styling (but with bristles all over the place!) and the fact that the light has disappeared quicker than Jeff spending £100 on cobolts! I'll have to go out in the morning and pick up fresh supplies.

 

Jeff I haven't read DJ's articles yet!

 

Rob, I'm not sure how much help this will be (i've never made track...yet), but here goes!

 

I think I'm right in thinking that you are having problems with the sleeper spacing? With your cardboard templates, once you have got the rails and chairs in place (and glued with PVA or whatever) could you not apply a drop of Superglue onto the chair/rail interface? If you leave it overnight, it should set solid and keep your spacing.

 

Andy G

[uax6]

Jeff,

 

The main thing you will have to get correct is the dimensions of the portal. It's a very distinct shape. I wonder if there are any drawings for it lurking? I know I haven't come across any, but maybe its worth an ask....?

 

I haope you can get the surrounding land details lumpy and looking like that photo! Might keep you out of trouble for a couple of days!

 

 

Andy G

[Physicsman]

Jeff,

 

The main thing you will have to get correct is the dimensions of the portal. It's a very distinct shape. I wonder if there are any drawings for it lurking? I know I haven't come across any, but maybe its worth an ask....?

 

I haope you can get the surrounding land details lumpy and looking like that photo! Might keep you out of trouble for a couple of days!

 

 

Andy G

 

Evening Andy. The first thing I always do is "break" the structure down into simple, small elements that I know I can make. This one doesn't look too bad. In the absence of drawings - and I haven't seen any, either - I'll measure up the dimensions from photos. There are plenty on Google images. Using the standard gauge track width as a guide is often useful.

 

Tbh, getting a copy of the structure to fine accuracy isn't my aim. But it's got a nice S&C "flavour" about it, so I'll try and make a decent fist of it. I think the "steps" (they are actually run-off channels) going up to either side of the portal give it a real depth, rather than it being a flat opening.

 

Even the Anderson/Fox "Structures..." book doesn't have a diagram. If anyone knows of one, let me know.

 

Jeff

Edited November 26, 2012 by Physicsman

[uax6]

I seem to recall that it is a very wet 'ole!

Having trawelled google images, I note that there is a lovely little cameo http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/47/Blea_Moor_Tunnel_mouth_-_geograph.org.uk_-_328680.jpg there. Bothy for the P-way gangs, and that lovely fishtailed distant banner repeater. Just look at those telegraph poles! (note the staying on the one closest to the camera, and that the arms are on the London side of the pole (so we must be looking at the Northern Portal). The colours of the gorse above the mouth is beautiful too!

 

Andy G

[Andrew P]

Hi Jeff, Have you got your SAND BAGS ready to board up the bunker, there is a LOT of wet stuff coming your way.

 

All this talk of nudes, well one stand at Warley had a HO scale BROTHEL, aparently if you looked through the windows you saw something but I am not sure what.

 

Also on the Gaugemaster stand they were displaying OO / HO workmen that actually MOVED ABOUT, and Firemen with what looked like a hosepipe that looked like it was actually squirting water.

 

Peter Midwinter actually impregnates Whisky into a sponge inside his Distillery on Glen Gillie for a wonderfull oder.

What ever next?

 

Andy.

[Physicsman]

Hi Jeff, Have you got your SAND BAGS ready to board up the bunker, there is a LOT of wet stuff coming your way.

 

All this talk of nudes, well one stand at Warley had a HO scale BROTHEL, aparently if you looked through the windows you saw something but I am not sure what.

 

Also on the Gaugemaster stand they were displaying OO / HO workmen that actually MOVED ABOUT, and Firemen with what looked like a hosepipe that looked like it was actually squirting water.

 

Peter Midwinter actually impregnates Whisky into a sponge inside his Distillery on Glen Gillie for a wonderfull oder.

What ever next?

 

Andy.

 

Isn't Peter the guy behind the (superb) Great Tunsley Dale layout featured in this months Model Rail?

 

I'm lucky, Andy, in that I live at the top of a hill. The River Tees is only 300m away, but I'm about 50m above sea level. So unless the Antarctic and Arctic ice sheets melt, I should be ok!

 

I'd like to know what was going on inside that Gaugemaster building, though! Btw, sent you a few emails to peruse!

 

cheers,

 

Jeff

Edited November 26, 2012 by Physicsman

[Physicsman]

I seem to recall that it is a very wet 'ole!

Having trawelled google images, I note that there is a lovely little cameo http://upload.wikime...uk_-_328680.jpg there. Bothy for the P-way gangs, and that lovely fishtailed distant banner repeater. Just look at those telegraph poles! (note the staying on the one closest to the camera, and that the arms are on the London side of the pole (so we must be looking at the Northern Portal). The colours of the gorse above the mouth is beautiful too!

 

Andy G

 

Yes Andy - many of the pics show it to be a bit damp, with plenty of lush vegetation growing nearby - often cut or burned back. I suppose it's at the foot of a hillside - no wonder they fitted those channels to stop a direct deluge on the locos). The photo you linked to has lovely colours - good one.

 

Jeff

[uax6]

Top of a Hill, Huh I should be so lucky!

 

Yeap I live on the Fens, where the river (200 yards away) is level with the bottom of the upstairs windows! I do hope we never flood, as I'll be stuffed!

 

Moving scale workmen? What do they sit in a van and play cards?? ;-} I'd like to see that firemans hose though.... (Oh God, I've just read that back, and it does sound a bit, well you know...)

 

The good news is that SHMBO has just phoned complaining about my Xmas list, and 247 Developments website! She has ordered a few things for me that I highlighted on the list as being required, and she said that she ordered a few others too, I can't wait.... (I bet they are torpedo vents!!)

 

Andy G

[uax6]

Getting back on topic here, whats the distance you have got from the viaduct to the mouth of the tunnel Jeff? Will you be able to get the banner in?

Nows here's a question, are you intending to have lights in the structures, and trains, so that you can run it at night? I always like the twinkle of the semaphores lamps (paraffin round here still!) at night. Would be a challenge to recreate that wouldn't it?

 

Andy G

Edited November 26, 2012 by uax6