Rob Hayes Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 hi all, i seek advise i have never undertook a modification of wheels on a loco. this concearns hornbys excellent superdetail a4 which i love however i really am not happy with the wheels i feel it is let down with the lack of the thick steel rims to the wheels that i feel is such an attractive feature of a4s. particularly mallard which i intend to upgrade and add speed record plaques to. so my question is who if anyone makes the correct wheels with thick shiney silver wheels that looks right for an a4 and maybe replacement motion too or i could paint this with alcad2. i dont want blackend wheels and is it possible to do this. is it easy to do. any advise and a parts shopping list would be fantastic to help me on my road to getting the perfect looking a4. many thanks rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hayes Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 oh and one more thing, im staying 00 gauge i dont want to convert to p4 or em, just stay 00. ta rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 I've just used Gibson bogie wheels on an A3 of my own. These have a decent thick tyre in bare metal and the look the part rather well. Although, they can be fiddly to set up, Gibson wheels do look rather good and there are actually model specific conversion sets listed here; http://www.alangibsonworkshop.com/ You'll find them on page 26 of the 4mm catalogue and bear in mind that you'll need to purchase the bogie and pony wheels separately as the sets listed contain only the drivers and axles. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 I doubt if the Hornby valve gear fits Gibsons wheels ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hayes Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 I've just used Gibson bogie wheels on an A3 of my own. These have a decent thick tyre in bare metal and the look the part rather well. Although, they can be fiddly to set up, Gibson wheels do look rather good and there are actually model specific conversion sets listed here; http://www.alangibsonworkshop.com/ You'll find them on page 26 of the 4mm catalogue and bear in mind that you'll need to purchase the bogie and pony wheels separately as the sets listed contain only the drivers and axles. Dave. thanks very much dave, that sounds promising am i right in thinking its alan gibson wheels that have the nice black plastic centres and the axle covers that look right for an a4 too, are these items easy to fit though, i mean will the axles be the same diameter as hornbys or will i have to mill the chassis, i dont have access to a milling machine id like some wheels that i can basically just swap over and use the same motion or buy replacements if there are any done in bare silver metal, i dont like this brass stuff stainless is the way to go with a4s at least. i know there are many makes of wheels but i wasnt sure if there are standards for compatibillity and im struggling to find the information on this. i appreciate all the help. all the best rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hayes Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 I doubt if the Hornby valve gear fits Gibsons wheels ? hi micklner can you explain as to why and if so do you know of any replacement motion kits that are compatible and preferably in a silver coloured metal, all the best rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 I doubt if the Hornby valve gear fits Gibsons wheels ? No you'd need to bush the rods as the Hornby crankpins are on the chunky side relative to Gibson's, and find some way of fixing the eccentric onto the centre axle crankpin. Though this probably goes for all replacement wheels? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 However, Jamie's own rather tasty Black Fives illustrate that it is indeed possible! Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hayes Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 No you'd need to bush the rods as the Hornby crankpins are on the chunky side relative to Gibson's, and find some way of fixing the eccentric onto the centre axle crankpin. Though this probably goes for all replacement wheels? cool can you elaborate more or direct me to some photos or step by steps, please treat me like an idiot on this one, i have an idea as what has to be done but as ive never done this like all new tasks seems like a can of worms. by brushings im guessing they are a fittament that reduces the diameter of the holes punched into the conecting rods of hornbys locos. is that what you mean, cheers rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 That's pretty much what a bush does in a nutshell Rob. I've never done it myself, but Jamie has so he's probably better placed to explain the process than I am. I suspect it'll be a wee bit easier in your circumstances as you're not regauging the loco to EM at the same time. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Rob, if you have patience and I can find the time, I've just taken delivery of some Markits driving wheelsets for a Hornby loco - my first pass attempt will be to reuse the Hornby rods and valve gear. I can show you that when I take a look at it (hopefully this week). I do have a Bachy Ivatt done with Gibsons, but that was more luck than ability on my part. I make no promises - the sunshine is too attractive this weekend, and work could be mental again during the week. Yep you're spot on with the bushes. Effectively soldering tiny washers into the holes to reduce the diameter of the hole in the rods. Trying to think if there's any step-by-steps on this forum - I used to have some of my own but they're lost to time. Try this for starters: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/14469-how-to-fit-coupling-rods-to-gibsonromford-wheels/page__fromsearch__1 where the description is probably clearer than the pics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hayes Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 That's pretty much what a bush does in a nutshell Rob. I've never done it myself, but Jamie has so he's probably better placed to explain the process than I am. I suspect it'll be a wee bit easier in your circumstances as you're not regauging the loco to EM at the same time. Dave. well thats good to know the grey matter is working i guess lol, and yes i wont be going em or p4 or whatever yes it looks better but i can live with the h0 track size and im to lazy to convert all my stock would be a nightmare with how much i got. but i really do want my Hornby mallard to look right the wheels are a big let down of an otherwise perfect model, it does annoy me when we have superdetailed models that suffer with the wheels not looking accurate, im not to fussed on some smaller details i can take or leave but big driving wheels on steam locos are a particularly noticeable part of a loco. especially lner shiney wheels. i suppose i could just paint the wheel rims the detail is there but the plastic inserts come down to far. oh well i hope i can get her sorted out soon. ill need to pick up some speed plaques from somewere too as i want her as she is today Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hayes Posted May 4, 2012 Author Share Posted May 4, 2012 ok guys im very much looking to go for ultrascale wheels and from my research there it would seem that their axels will fit my superdetail Hornby a4s ill just need to get the right size gear on the axle. BUT... im still finding it hard to get any info on availible motion kits for the crank rods etc that will fit the ultrascale wheels and Hornby superdetail a4 (latest new tooling type.) can anyone point me in the right direction, please. cheers rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ianmaccormac Posted May 5, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 5, 2012 Hi I have just purchased Gibson wheels and a Brassmasters Easichas to convert my A4 to P4 but there is loads of details and instructiond to look at on the brassmasters website about doing this. You may find a load of info there and they do a separate detailing tch to glue on to various parts to really give extra detail to the A4. Worth a look. They do the bushes to fit the Hornby valvegear to gobson crankpins as well. Full instructions with a load of photos. HTH Cheers Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hayes Posted May 6, 2012 Author Share Posted May 6, 2012 Hi I have just purchased Gibson wheels and a Brassmasters Easichas to convert my A4 to P4 but there is loads of details and instructiond to look at on the brassmasters website about doing this. You may find a load of info there and they do a separate detailing tch to glue on to various parts to really give extra detail to the A4. Worth a look. They do the bushes to fit the Hornby valvegear to gobson crankpins as well. Full instructions with a load of photos. HTH Cheers Ian thanks ever so much for that i will check it out. cheers rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hayes Posted August 24, 2013 Author Share Posted August 24, 2013 I still have not got around to doing this yet but I am now getting ever keen. I still need some help. I am set on wanting to use ultra scale wheels for my mallard. but I am struggling so much with finding the following information. 1. who makes replacements motion sets for a Hornby a4 that will work with ultrascale wheels. 2. When I find said supplier is there anything I need to be aware of I am coming across the term "Throw" I guess this means the distance from the axle centre to the pin hole for the the connecting rods or coupling rods. 3 Is there anything I should be aware of. Any help on were to go to get more info on this kind of thing would be greatly appreciated. Cheers Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 I still have not got around to doing this yet but I am now getting ever keen. I still need some help. I am set on wanting to use ultra scale wheels for my mallard. but I am struggling so much with finding the following information. 1. who makes replacements motion sets for a Hornby a4 that will work with ultrascale wheels. 2. When I find said supplier is there anything I need to be aware of I am coming across the term "Throw" I guess this means the distance from the axle centre to the pin hole for the the connecting rods or coupling rods. 3 Is there anything I should be aware of. Any help on were to go to get more info on this kind of thing would be greatly appreciated. Cheers Rob Personally I think you would be better off building the Martin Finney A4 kit, and then you can justify paying the price and waiting the six months for delivery of Ultrascale wheels. Or, if money is no object, order an A4 from Golden Age Models - it will have all the detail you seek, and it will be in OO. It will even have working inside motion. Yours for about a grand. As far as replacement motion is concerned, only Comet produce full valve gear sets for the A4, and these are primarily designed to match their own chassis kit. If you want to make it work on a Hornby chassis, then you will have to do a considerable degree of adaptation to get the brackets to fit the Hornby chassis block without causing short circuits, etc., and that's before you start worrying about crankpin bush sizes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hayes Posted August 25, 2013 Author Share Posted August 25, 2013 Thanks the price is an issue sadly I am not in a position to purchase a Finney or a golden age models version. That said I am happy to pay for ultrascale wheels or others that look the part and I am happy with hornbys model it certainly looks right just the wheels look naff for lner blue locos. If I can get the blackening off the Hornby motion or paint it silver i might settle for that. however the motion fitted to the brassmasters chassis looks perfect and is fitted to a Hornby model so i wonder who makes their motion as the kit seems to be just the frames. The wheels they have on are not metioned either but look great however im not sure if they are part of the kit either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 They are not part of the kit, but Brassmasters can supply them as a pack to make the job easier for you. The wheels are in fact made by AGW -Alan Gibson Workshop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hayes Posted August 25, 2013 Author Share Posted August 25, 2013 Fantastic I take it the brass masters kit is the frames and and motion. but I wonder can I still use this kit to make an 00 version or Is it exclusively for EM /P4 ETC. Its a dark elusive hobby this kit building part of the railway world I have spent the whole day looking and reading trying to find shops that stock the stuff and show images of what you get but nearly all are just lists with phone numbers to order only. I really think the problem here is not that people don't want to make kits its that its so hard to find the information to make it more available to the public. I really wish the kit building side of modelling would get more favourable coverage in the modelling press. I would be happy to write some articles and once I have the bits in hand I will do a work in progress on here and on britmodeller to show you all my first attempts if only so you can laugh at my results. Its frustrating all I want to do is find a shop were I can pick my wheels and axles etc add to card and pay but I cannot find a website/shop who offers such a service. It would be so nice to have a re-wheeled tender done by the end of the week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 The Brassmasterss EasiChas is intended to wrap around the Hornby chassis block, and is for EM and P4 only. Click here for info Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hayes Posted August 27, 2013 Author Share Posted August 27, 2013 Hi all I have started to get my head around all this now and took the plunge. I have bought so far this. 1x set of gibson wheels for Hornby A4 and Tender 2x sets of spacer washers for the side play lager and smaller ones 2X sets of bushing long and short 1x Alan Gibson Back to Back gauge standard 00 gauge 1x Loctite 603 (I guess this is what I will need for the wheels and nuts) 1x Ultrascale set of A4 driving wheel counter balance weights (I guess these will fit and I wonder if they take 6 months to arrive.) Now I need to buy a GW Quartering Jig and I realise Now that I may have trouble with the Hornby Eccentric crank mounting the arm to the centre wheel. How does one go about this is there anyone can advise on this. I am sorry for all the questions but I am keen to learn and once I have got the all the parts and the help of you lovely fellows I will get cracking and post a WIP so you can see what I am up to and guide me along were you can. Once again thanks for the help Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 .....1x Ultrascale set of A4 driving wheel counter balance weights (I guess these will fit and I wonder if they take 6 months to arrive.) They will if nobody else has ordered any....! .....I may have trouble with the Hornby Eccentric crank mounting the arm to the centre wheel. How does one go about this ..... If I remember correctly, you will have to solder it to the AGW crankpin nut. I take it you have remembered to buy the AGW crankpins at the same time as the wheels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hayes Posted August 29, 2013 Author Share Posted August 29, 2013 They will if nobody else has ordered any....! If I remember correctly, you will have to solder it to the AGW crankpin nut. I take it you have remembered to buy the AGW crankpins at the same time as the wheels. Hi there thanks for getting back. Regarding ultrascale I was impressed soon after ordering I got 2 emails. 1 said they had my order 2nd one said my order had been processed but whatever that means is anyone guess. I got the Alan Gibson wheels from mainly trains and it states each wheel comes with each side 2 axles abd crank pins However I couldn't see the eccentric crank listed so I'm short of this but I would like to know if one can fit the crown line or mainline motion sets for an A4 to a Hornby chassis ? Hopefully soon this old A4 I have been restoring will have new wheels too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 I wouldn't try the old Crownline valve gear on that; you'll only make it look worse. If you're using the original Hornby return cranks, they will need to be soldered to the AGW crankpin nuts - i.e. the tiny stepped circular discs in the pack of crankpins. If you want to replace the valve gear with something finer, e.g. Comet's fret, then I think you'd be better off building a brand-new scale chassis anyway. All of this will probably go through one ear and out the other, because only you know what you want. And if it's there you want to be, I wouldn't be starting from here... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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