Dent, S&C in P4

[Allegheny1600]

On Saturday the 5th May, Tony W. and I went to collect a P4 layout based closely on Dent on the Settle & Carlisle! It just happened to be slightly smaller than my spare room, which was earmarked for me and a layout anyway! I believe it was built some 30 years ago by a chap called Pete who has since passed away. We believed the layout had not been used for several years, hence the apparent state of things. It was also evident that Pete had been changing at least, the fiddle yard around as there is not much there.

It was unfortunately built as a permanent fixture into the room it was in but we were able to extract it over the course of an afternoon by cutting it into suitable sections, longest of which is approx 6 feet long. This has the most pointwork on it. We were very lucky I think, to be able to maintain the integrity of the layout so I hope to be able to reassemble it as an exhibit-able piece! I'd like to do this over the course of a year (gulp!).

Here is a selection of photos taken during the course of destruction!

That lovely curving platform.

The bay and the bracket signal (the signals are fixed and will be replaced with working examples!)

That retaining wall should not be there!

What will become the main baseboard.

Curving away from the station, again not entirely as is but a fair compromise. You can see just how dusty everything is.

Whaaat?!? Shurely shome mishake!

Coming round into the fiddle yard.

The architect of destruction himself!

Thankfully Petes widow, Moira kept us going in tea and biscuits through the afternoon - good job as I for one, was almost choking on the dust!

I suspect this layout was set purely in the steam era as all the (rather nice!) Trackwork is bull-head rail but that should be absolutely fine for my chosen era of c.1965-68! Mostly diesels with some steam!

I already have plenty of EE and Sulzer power (green!) and a handful of suitable steam locos, with a load of new Ultrascale wheels ordered!

Woo-Hoo! Something to really get my teeth into!

Cheers for now,

John E.

[Jub45565]

Looks good! I'd just pick up on:

I suspect this layout was set purely in the steam era as all the (rather nice!) Trackwork is bull-head rail but that should be absolutely fine for my chosen era of c.1965-68! Mostly diesels with some steam!

 

I'm pretty sure that this would have been flat bottomed before then. A cursory online check shows that Dent definitely was by 1967, half way down the following page with 45285:

 

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/location.php?loc=Settle%20and%20Carlisle%20Line

 

Still, it shouldn't detract from the overall theme. Good luck with the project!

[Jamie]

Ah very good John, this is what you were alluding to at S4N

Best of luck, there's a good bit of restoration ahead of you by the looks, but a sound basis to work from.

[Allegheny1600]

Thanks guys!

Pete, from my book research, it would appear the S&C mainline through Dent (at least!) was actually relaid in about 1957/58 - quite a little way before my time period!

This does present me with a bit of a problem and I shall contemplate this for a while but events to be documented presently may provide an answer, I hope.

Jamie, this is indeed what I mentioned before! Like you say, definitely a good, sound basis for a head start.

More soon,

John E.

[Allegheny1600]

I have found a small problem with my new layout however, I set all the boards out on the lawn, the following day, took a few pictures, most likely from angles never before seen! On a whim, I measured it up: 13'8" in length!

Hmmm,.......I don't think it will fit in my earmarked 12'4" room! Apart from the 'master' bedroom, it won't fit in any other room in our house, either! The only way to shorten it would be to build brand new curved end boards with tighter radii at each end as there's no way I can shorten the straight bit: too much complex pointwork!

So,

I'm think I’m going to lengthen it! By whatever the length of the straight section is, this will give me much more realistic lay by sidings and, I might as well open out the curves leading to the fiddle yard too. These needed a complete rebuild, anyway!

From adversity comes inspiration!

Not too sure where I'll assemble it, though? I do think I'll now need a bit more than a year now. Perhaps eighteen and a bit months!!!

For now, just some more pictures;

The "Coal Road" bridge, I didn't cause that bit of bent track!

The platforms, bit of remedial work required here.

Overall view of the station area.

All that lovely trackwork!

Aah! That's P4!

The end of the refuge sidings.

Looking along the layout.

The 'fiddle yard' - such as it is!

The lifting flap is on the left, how did this work, I wonder?

Control panel!

 

All for now,

John E.

[beast66606]

As you've realised the signalling is slightly wrong - Dent had an outer and inner up distant so the (incorrect, down) distant shown combined with the up starter should be before the platforms coming from the fiddle yard i.e moved to the other end of the layout.

[10800]

Could you build a shed around it in the garden?

[Re6/6]

Good luck with it John. It's good to see a positive resurrection project. It certainly looks worth it.

 

We (DRAG that is) have a nice medium sized BLT (c1970s) that we were bequeathed that is also in a sorry state awaiting resoration. It was one of the original 'landmark' layouts in P4.

[Physicsman]

Splendid stuff John!! Though I would say that about any S&C-related project. Now I understand your interest in Alan's (60091) N gauge layout.

 

I will be following this thread with the utmost interest as construction of my S&C (roughly based on Kirkby Stephen, with tweaks) starts this summer.

 

I wish you well and the landscaping detail should be a dream, given the base you are working on!

 

Best wishes,

 

Jeff

[Allegheny1600]

Could you build a shed around it in the garden?

 

Funny you should say that!

Not quite a shed - my wife's idea is to build a gazebo at bottom of the garden that can be covered up (with roof & walls of thin [waterproof!] canvas type material) on occasions when I could set the layout up for a running session and have friends over! Room for a barbie, of course!

Hows that for a "beer tent"!?!

Cheers ,

John E.

[Allegheny1600]

More destruction!

As stated above, I'd decided to lengthen the layout, partly to give a more realistic track layout (at the front) but also to give more room in the (to be built!) fiddle yard, for full length trains and more of them! So, about the only place that I could see where it would be possible to do an "insert" was in the main straight board as seen here;

Even so, any cut would have to go through pointwork! Therefore I resolved to lift the crossover between the Southbound (Settle) line and it's associated refuge siding. Sounds easy at first - I've done this kind of thing before, point replacement and so forth, no worries! Not so, this time however!

TWO days of soaking the ballast, track, cork etc like so;

This should have been enough for a quick scrub with an old toothbrush to clear everything away, . . . No Chance!

Whether it was originally stuck down with cascamite or just that the old PVA had dried so much it was virtually waterproof, I don't know but my next method of attack was to scrub away for ages(!) with a fine steel wire brush, this worked, eventually.

Showing the ballast lifting and turning into mush!

At last! I could get a scraper under the sleepers of the adjacent plain track.

Plain track removed. At least I now knew that the track could be lifted (and re-used!).

Finally! After some three hours of re-soaking and scrubbing, the crossover was removed! This will hopefully be able to be rejuvenated and relocated onto the new board, further "south" as it were.

Next:

Cut this board for length, then cut away all excess chipboard leaving just the track-bed.

Cheers for now,

John E.

[Physicsman]

John - looking at the layout, you really have got your work cut out there!! So I would hardly call your thread "the cheats guide to finescale modelling", it's more like the saints approach to it!

 

It will be interesting to see how much stuff you end up replacing. But it will be fun (won't it? won't it?), and that's what it's all about. I think we all love a challenge!

 

Best wishes,

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Any further progress, John, or are you still trying to sort out how to accommodate this in the house - or how to modify it?

 

Jeff

[Allegheny1600]

Hi Jeff,

Sorry for the delay in replying! Yes! There is an awful lot to do with this but am making very slow progress at the moment, mainly due to the nice weather! Yes, i've been doing a lot in the garden, re-oiling the decking, building a gazebo (that will be a temporary 'home' for Dent!) and various other outdoor pursuits!

Never mind, a modelling update will follow in due course.

Cheers,

John E.

[Physicsman]

Hi Jeff,

Sorry for the delay in replying! Yes! There is an awful lot to do with this but am making very slow progress at the moment, mainly due to the nice weather! Yes, i've been doing a lot in the garden, re-oiling the decking, building a gazebo (that will be a temporary 'home' for Dent!) and various other outdoor pursuits!

Never mind, a modelling update will follow in due course.

Cheers,

John E.

No problem! As you are aware, it's taken me months to get to the point where I can consider starting my layout. So the garden business you refer to is perfectly understandable.

Hopefully we will both get underway shortly. I've been investigating (and pricing up) SMP Scaleway and Marcway 00 track and points.

Never a dull moment in this hobby!

Cheers,

Jeff

[Allegheny1600]

Hi all,

I thought it was time for a brief update, nothing much - just to show that I've done something I don't like vvery much, electrics!

Here again, I'm cheating! All DCC wiring I find so much simpler than trying to work out section switches and so forth, with DCC I simply make sure every section of rail has a feed (of the correct polarity) and I'm away!

The original rather messy wiring!

Wiring cleaned up and DCC bus added. The large circuit board is a Hex Frog juicer, even for frog wiring, I'm cheating! This is just such a simple machine to wire in, two wires from the main bus and one to each (of 6) frogs - fantastic!

The complete, initial bus.

I'm contemplating at least two busses, one for each up & down line and having them switchable between DCC and plain DC for visiting analogue locos. Just need to decide on point motors and their locos first, though.

It works!

My first diesel-electric P4 conversion, a Bachmann class 20. I'd already done a couple of diesel-hydraulics before acquiring this layout and I must say, it is a nice easy process to convert diesels! Not sure about steam locos yet!

Anyway, my little class 20 will be on it's own until my fairly large order from Ultrascale arrives!

Best get sorting some more track out next.

Cheers for now,

John E.

[Physicsman]

Nice to see some photos, John. I don't think anything that makes life easier is cheating. If I find it useful, I'll get a Frog juicer as well. Are you using it to control 6 electrofrog basic (LH/RH)turnouts or have you got some wiring to a slip?

 

Best wishes,

 

Jeff

[Allegheny1600]

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for your comments!

Yes, two sets of wires go to one slip and there is one spare (for the next board!), the rest go to ordinary points. I now need to wire in a second juicer that will power the other slip, a couple more points and the crossover on the adjacent board. This board being the 'main' board!

Cheers,

John E.

[Physicsman]

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for your comments!

Yes, two sets of wires go to one slip and there is one spare (for the next board!), the rest go to ordinary points. I now need to wire in a second juicer that will power the other slip, a couple more points and the crossover on the adjacent board. This board being the 'main' board!

Cheers,

John E.

Thanks. I think I need to investigate this as Kirkby Luneside has a single and a double slip. I'm conversant with the wiring of ordinary LH/RH points, but I've never wired slips. Anything that makes that job easier is a good idea. I've a number of websites earmarked, including Brian Lambert's, so will give them a look.

 

I guess the Frog Juicer comes with idiot-proof instructions anyway? Where did you buy it from? Useful thing, this Forum!

 

Cheers,

 

Jeff

[Allegheny1600]

Hi Jeff,

Ooh yes! This forum is so very useful, I thoroughly agree! Sometimes there is simply too much inspiration!

Anyway, my hex frog juicers came from Digitrains (other suppliers are available!) and yes, if I could follow the instructions, they must be idiot proof!

More to come in the coming weeks!

Cheers,

John E.

[Guest oldlugger]

Good luck with this John! It's quite an undertaking to restore and continue someone else's brain child in any gauge, let alone P4. I'm sure the eventual layout will look very nice indeed, and the early hints of this are already apparent in the basic landscape formations. The most satisfying part for me would be transforming the aforementioned using contemporary scenic products from the likes of Noch and Heki.

 

Cheers

Simon

[skipepsi]

Is there any chance of an update or pictures I was intrigued by the adaption proposed.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Just found this thread John.

The original layout certainly has that S&C feel.

 

Don't ever recall you wielding a saw at Mickleover though.....

 

Regards,

Peter

 

[Allegheny1600]

Hi all,

Sorry for the long pause (said the polar bear!) but I've been a trifle busy lately!

Plus, I couldn't wait to get some trains running, so I started trying to develop my little Continental layout using RTR stock and track (in H0).

Updates & developments on this are as follows;

A load of wheelsets from Ultrascale have arrived and been placed in 'Strategic store', ready for application as and when various locos are ready to be commissioned.

One Bachmann class 40 has been completely dis-assembled ready for sound chamber milling, just got to design a suitable box on my CAD program, fit chassis onto my milling machine and switch ON!

By the time I've got this done and dusted, the new one will be out with RTR sound, never mind!

Various other bit's and pieces of P4 work have been either acquired or worked upon including me joining the 'Slattocks' team at Manchester, http://www.mmrs.org.uk/layouts/Slattocks.html and starting to learn about fitting AJ's, building P4 pointwork and so forth.

So, there's been some background activity going on, just nothing on the layout itself.

Keep watching and waiting patiently, it's coming!

Cheers,

John E.

[Allegheny1600]

Evening all,

As I just posted in "Kirkby Luneside" (surely the most amusing & informative thread on here!?!) - I'm going all festive, what with all these mentions of "Ho, Ho, Ho" - that's just what I'm going back to!

H0, that is!

I hope no-one is too disappointed but it turns out that I simply haven't got the patience to perceiver(?), peersieve(?), persevere(!) with a large P4 layout, single-handedly.

I will keep the P4 faith to a degree, converting stock and maybe, building some too but it will have to run on our club layout, hopefully. I did actually get a nice, noisy, new "Peak" converted and ran it at our club 'social' a couple of weeks ago and I'm very pleased with it. At some point, I will also build a P4 'plank' and that should help my 4mm career.

However, my main modelling 'love' is actually H0 scale, . . . sometimes US outline, though these days it's mostly German outline that I get really exited about and is what comprises my main stock collection.

A bit far removed from the S&C? (which I still love, of course!)

It is really but I hope some of you may be interested enough to have a look over on my new thread when I get it started - maybe in the new year?

 

Of course, I will be able to run '00' gauge items on this new layout so green 40's and peaks will still appear, somewhere in Deutschland! And, it will draw from some of the design philosophies from "Kirkby Luneside" (& "Eastwood Town"!), among others.

Cheers,

John E.

 

Dons tin 'at and ducks for cover!!!

 

P.S. When I've built up more stock and various trackwork (& other) skills, I will return to this project! (but don't hold your breath!).