Rules regarding private industrial locos on main lines...?

[avonside1563]

In the book,'More of My Life in Steam' by Ken Judkins (now out of print sadly and difficult to come by) he describes moving a Sentinel steam loco under its own steam between industrial sites over the W.R. (cannot remember where from and too but somewhere in South Wales is in the back of my mind) and the efforts he had to go too to get the movement approved by higher authority.

 

There's plenty of anecdotal stories regarding industrial locos travelling over main lines with often nothing more than a nod between the signalman and the loco crew.

[sunshine coast]

Thank you all again for the replies and information ....I have come across an interesting snippet in an article re. Kingswear in GWR journal No.25.....an excellent insight into the workings of this station.. I shall paraphrase the relevant part..

 

Noss shipyard Kingswear is/was situated approximately 1.1/2 miles up the main line from the station....it received regular shipments of sheet metal and bar conveyed on Macaws and opens plus occasional "small " items to their private siding.

The procedure was for the wagons for Noss Works to be formed up at Kingswear and then propelled with a brake van at the front up the main line ...this was usually done around 10.00am.....on arrival at the works the brake van was detached past the points for the siding,the inbound wagons were used to collect outbound which were then attached to the brake ,then inbound shunted into the siding, sometimes"we oblged the works foreman by altering the order of the wagons" a bit of unoficial extra shunting ??....the engine then collected the outbound wagons and brake returned to Kingswear and shunted them into the normal goods train for departure later that day. This working does appear to be pretty regular ....

 

hope this is of interest and illustrates well the main railway companies servicing private sidings ....

 

Regards Trevor ...

[Bruciethefish]

When I used to regularly travel to Tunbridge Wells by train, I would frequently see British Gypsum's Fowler shunter moving wagons around in Mountfield sidings. The only thing particularly noticeable was that it had to retreat through the gate onto BG's private system whenever a 33 or 73 was present to collect or deliver a train..

[Poggy1165]

There was at least one case in Lancashire (GC St Helens Branch) where colliery locos had running powers over the main line. This continued into BR days, as I have seen photos of NCB engines on the line. I strongly suspect there were other examples, given the vast colliery networks of Lancashire and Yorkshire.

 

To go back in history, for a long time the GCR allowed Denaby and Cadeby Main Colliery locos to haul trains of coal wagons from Conisbrough to Doncaster and back, the only restriction being that there had to be a GC brake van and guard. I believe this was because the GC hadn't enough engines to cope with the traffic and Denaby and Cadeby (a notably litigious and hard-nosed company) kicked off about it. This was no obscure byway, but the main Sheffield-Doncaster line!

[Friar Tuck]

In recent times, we must not forget the Class 59s and their wagons - though always intended for main line use and with BR crews.

 

I have read of several lines where the contractors who built it ran the trains for a while, before the main line company started using its own locomotives.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Not industrial as such (nor indeed private) but MOD locos certainly ran onto the LNW at Bicester from the military railway there. I think that continued until the 1970s. There was mention of it in an article in Railway Modeller a few years back.

 

I think that the same sort of arrangements applied at other locations with military railways.

[Friar Tuck]

Riverside station at Liverpool was on Mersey Docks property, yet saw regular main line locomotives and stock.

[Castle]

Hi All,

 

Just thought you would like a look at this. This is attached to the cab side of DL26 at Didcot. She is essentially an industrial version of the BR Class 05. She was always in industrial service, her current BR black livery is bit naughty but the intention was to help her fit in with the historic environs at 81E. That way she looks acceptable in the back of those classic shots of steam engines everyone wants when they come to visit!

 

 

The cast sign is one that confirms her registration with the British Transport Commission and means that it is possible that she ventured onto BR lines and thus neatly fits into the topic under discussion here as an illustrative tool!

 

I hope this is useful!

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[Joseph_Pestell]

Just checked in my book on Lambourn Valley Rly. Mentions that in later years (1970s), MOD loco was used over the branch to take wagons from RAF Welford (actually a USAAF facility) to Newbury. Given the layout at Newbury, loco must have run through the up main platform loop.

[RJS1977]

Photo of one of the Huntley & Palmers locomotives shunting the GWR Reading Low Level Goods sidings:

 

http://www.huntleyandpalmers.org.uk/ixbin/hixclient.exe?a=query&p=huntley&f=generic_largerimage_postsearch.htm&_IXFIRST_=9&_IXMAXHITS_=1&m=quick_sform&tc1=i&partner=huntley&text=locomotive&tc2=e&s=h5UFRt4nb7S

 

The other two sides of the triangle led under the GWR main line into the factory.

[The Stationmaster]

Photo of one of the Huntley & Palmers locomotives shunting the GWR Reading Low Level Goods sidings:

 

http://www.huntleyan...e&s=h5UFRt4nb7S

 

The other two sides of the triangle led under the GWR main line into the factory.

Excellent link and some great pics in there which are very interesting to compare with a large scale drawing I have of the H&P factory layout. Interestingly in later years BR locos were also allowed through the tunnel into the main H&P sidings as well as H&P locos being allowed into the GWR siding at the north side of the triangle. I wonder if any ever GW/BR locos ever ventured onto the triangle and through the tunnel as the curvature was to model railway standards and the tunnel was very tight.

[winterbournecm]

We called the Imerys Class 08 onto the main network during a derailment between St Blazey & Goonbarrow back in the early 2000s (Rockmill if I recall correctly). It involved a lot of sorting out as it was not TOPS allocated etc... but we felt proud when the loco made it down the errant train and dragged the good portion back to Goonbarrow.

[PGH]

In 1933 the LMS made an agreement with Manchester Collieries Ltd to permit the colliery company to work their locos over the LMS between collieries in the Atherton area and Jacksons Sidings, Tyldesley, for the purpose of overhaul and repair at the Gin Pit Colliery Workshops. This was probably typical of many such agreements for irregular movements of industrial locos over main lines and the following conditions were specified: The firm were to pay the LMS a nominal sum of £1 per year for the agreement, but in addition were required to pay all costs incurred by the LMS. A pilot was to be provided by the LMS and the LMS had the right to examine the locos before allowing them to travel. The firm’s men employed in this working were to be examined once per year by the LMS’s doctor, and supplied with a copy of the railway company’s rules and regulations. The firm’s men would be under the direction of the LMS officers when on railway company property.

 

Such movements would be authorised by ‘Movement Orders’, the use of which continued into BR days.

 

I understand that the Ministry of Fuel & Power had arrangements with BR for some of their opencast locos to have monthly servicing (presumably boiler washouts, etc) at a BR depot, to which of course they would have to travel over the main line.

[Devonbelle]

Interesting thread. I recollect Avonmouth in the 70s and 80s witnessed several different different private owners locos on BR lines, the Port of Bristol 0-6-0 Sentinel diesel hydraulics used a BR controlled line to go over the Severn Beach line, to shuttle between Chittening Estate and the Docks whilst less than 200 yards away, the 4 wheel Sentinel diesel hydraulic shunters belonging to the smelting works used to drop off and pick up freight traffic opposite Hallen Marsh Jn signal box. At the latter site the train crew gave me a number of cab rides over the years and they always cited having to be examined in basic rules and regs by a BR inspector - the locos had the British Transport Commission authority plate to run on BR lines.

 

Also until 1987 the Western Fuel Co used to have an 0-6-0 Hudswell Clarke diesel which used to run over the BR branch from Wapping Wharf almost in Bristol City Centre to Ashton Jn signal box with coal wagons.

 

I was involved with the running of an industrial steam loco Portbury on the Portishead branch in 2001, the chap at Bristol Industrial Musuem said that when built it and it's sister engines travelled under their own power on the main line to Avonmouth Docks from the Avonside and Peckett loco works in Bristol, when new.

 

Paul

 

[johnw1]

Not industrial as such (nor indeed private) but MOD locos certainly ran onto the LNW at Bicester from the military railway there. I think that continued until the 1970s. There was mention of it in an article in Railway Modeller a few years back.

 

I think that the same sort of arrangements applied at other locations with military railways.

 

When the MOD Depot at Chilwell was still rail connected the layout of the sidings was such that the tyre wear on the three or so Army diesel shunters was very "one sided". In order to even out the tyre wear the Army shunters would periodically venture out onto BR metals at Attenborough and trundle the five or so miles towards Nottingham to turn on the Lenton South - Lenton North - Mansfield Junction triangle.

[scorpion]

only seen it happen once in 40 years of watching trains but in 1975 an NCB shunter ran through Doncaster under its own power whilst transferring between Yorkshire pits, never seen a photo of such a working

[Adam]

Some of these registration plates specified the routes, etc., the loco's concerned could work. This example is from Peckett 1893 at Stourport power station:

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/paulbrysn/5490354948/in/set-72157626051884553/lightbox/

 

Adam