Black Country Blues

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

You could do that, but it wouldn't be very realistic...

 

You are correct in that there's a max permitted speed for each section of line, but that doesn't mean every train would be doing that  speed. For instance in the era of BCB unfitted freights were limited to 25mph. There's also weight, gradient, available brake force, and whether the Signalman's awake to consider.

 

Look how the real thing moves...... They go slowly when there's a need to, and within the limits of the permitted speed, get em going at other times.

 

...with type 1s & 2s on lengthy freights climbing gradients 25mph may be optimistic. 

 

Dave

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

...I remember a slippery Autumntime climb of Hemerdon with the Moorswater to Earles cement empties around 2004 ...with the sanders running low due to the amount used during the day we crested the summit at around 6 mph. Traversing the Dawlish sea wall was fun too with large storm waves lashing the train...we were checking for fish in the engineroom at Exeter.

 

Dave  

Edited October 30, 2013 by Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

....I had a feeling that I'd related it before Mickey...couldn't remember where though. 

 

Dave

[Stubby47]

As one of the Sunday operators ( at times ) it's pleasing to hear all the trains appeared to be travelling at the same speed - from my perspective each of the locos had their own ideas about what was an ideal speed.

 

There were also times when nothing was moving, which didn't seem to upset the viewers. We did try to prepare a train for despatch as the previous train was in motion, though sometimes this resulted in no receiving FY line to be available, meaning the incoming train was slowed or stopped ( ideal for photos of course !)

[TheSignalEngineer]

I believe that certain more modern high powered locomotives on long trains have been know to top Hemerdon at a  whacking 10 mph or less

You should try a Class 31 with 8 coaches up through Fenny Compton. We were down to about 20mph before we started going downhill. Mind you, some old DMUs were even worse. One day we managed to average 8mph for the last quarter mile to the top of Lickey in a Derby Suburban set. I've done similar to Old Hill with a 3-car scratch set but that did have an engine isolated.

[The Stationmaster]

Best tale I've heard about adhesion/lack of on banks was a Class 37 going up 'the big hill' from Walnut Tree Jcn one morning with a train of empties - it slipped to a stand on leaves, with 7 empty 16 tonners and a brakevan behind it.   Rather more frightening was a Class 47 with a train of HAAs coming down - it couldn't stop at the bottom (hardly surprising, not a good loco for braking and lousy wagons for braking.

 

As for Class 31s - useless things, couldn't pull the skin of a rice pudding, we had one overpowered going up to Cranmore with two 45 ton bitumen tank cars.

[TheSignalEngineer]

Best tale I've heard about adhesion/lack of on banks was a Class 37 going up 'the big hill' from Walnut Tree Jcn one morning with a train of empties - it slipped to a stand on leaves, with 7 empty 16 tonners and a brakevan behind it.   Rather more frightening was a Class 47 with a train of HAAs coming down - it couldn't stop at the bottom (hardly surprising, not a good loco for braking and lousy wagons for braking.

 

As for Class 31s - useless things, couldn't pull the skin of a rice pudding, we had one overpowered going up to Cranmore with two 45 ton bitumen tank cars.

Most frightening trip I had was on an 8F, tender first with 40 wagons of spoil from a clay dig. As we went under the Coventry Road at Bordesley Junction the driver yelled across the cab enquiring what the signals were showing at St Andrews. The fireman said they were Off to which the driver replied (edited) that's good because the brakes are hard on and we're not slowing down.

[ElTesha]

Was having a look around the web and found this page.

 

About half way down, there's a comment with a photo, saying that

 

"There seem to be 19 horses dragging the wagon, which is from the London and North Western Railway."

 

It shows a roll on the wagon without covers.

 

http://www.historywebsite.co.uk/Museum/Engineering/perry/perry03.htm

 

Here I am,late to the party again - sorry.  The company in this article - 'Perry' - rollmakers were listed in the 1975 Midland Rollmakers advert a few posts above this one so they had been around for a long time and making rolls from late 19th C at least.  It is interesting to note in the context of this thread on the transport of rolls, that Perrys was less than 1/2 mile from the Spring Vale steelworks (locally known as Stewarts and Llloyds - closed 1984) which was served with sidings from the Stour Valley line south of Wolverhampton.  By the way there is still a link with the steel industry on the same Perrys site (looks like many of the original buildings survive) as C & S Steel is there making black and bright rod.

 

 

 

Highfields today - Original Perrys building still standing

 

Another fact which may be of interest is that looking at the site on Google maps there is the remaining track of a railway line passing adjacent to the site of Perrys and runs to Priestfield and Wolverhampton low level, passing just to the east of the Spring Vale steelworks, now demolished, the site of the original works is a business and retail area.  Perhaps there was movement of rolls between the two by rail - there is an area to the North of the Perrys factory site on the opposite side of the road which is still clear and could have held sidings?  This particular line to the Spring Vale and on to Wolverhampton are the remains of the GWR line (originally the OWW) and the picture on the Perrys history shows a roll loaded on to a GWR road wagon, perhaps moving it to the rail sidings? This same line also ran South to pass the Bloomfield Steelworks next to Bloomfield Junction on the Stour Valley line (LNWR) with sidings opposite the works with road link. I'm not sure if there were rolling mills there but it is in the parish of Tipton of which was said in the 19th C :- 

 

"These sources describe Tipton as a place where `the coal mines are said to be inexhaustible' (Pigot and Co. Directory, 1828/29); where `the parish is celebrated for the richness of its coal and ironstone, and for the number and extent of the iron furnaces, forges, and rolling and slitting mills"

 

And that was just as true up to the 21st C.

 

 The OWW also  provided a direct link between Perrys factory and the Round Oak Steelworks (locally - "The Earl Of Dudley's" - closed 1982) with it's rolling mills - now the Merry Hill shopping centre - in Brierley Hill just 4 miles South of the Perrys factory. So perhaps there was the possibility of rail movement of rolls in the area away from the crowded and narrow local roads. There was also a link from the Stour Valley line to the Patent Shaft rolling mills (closed 1980) at Wednesbury via Bloomfield Junction and the Princes End Branch so perhaps there was the possibility of the movement of rolls by rail (note the LNWR road wagon in the post linked to here).  The Perrys factory was surrounded by canals (Wednesbury Oak Loop and the BCN Bloomfield Junction to Deepfields cut) with narrow hump back bridges built by Georgian canal builders Brindley and Telford so perhaps rail movement would have been a more attractive solution!

 

All pure armchair conjecture of course, but I find the possibility interesting as I was born and bred in the area just a mile or so south  of the Spring Vale works surrounded by a web of rail and canal with a grandfather who was a signalman on both the GWR line and the Stour Valley main line at Deepfields.

 

Terry

 

Edit:  I have just noticed on an old OS map (25 inches to the mile) that the Bloomfield steelworks was indeed a rolling mill.

T

Edited November 5, 2013 by ElTesha

[Arthur]

Thanks Terry, interesting stuff. It's just strange that we cannot find a single photo, any where, of a roll loaded onto a rail wagon. Both the GWR and BR built a few wagons specifically for the purpose so we know such traffic did exist.

 

There were a number of roll makers in the Black Country which had been established to serve the wrought iron industry, for which rolling was an integral operation, and a trade in which the area once led the world. This early experience was also responsible for the large number of rolling mills in the area.

[wagonbasher]

Here I am,late to the party again - sorry.  The company in this article - 'Perry' - rollmakers were listed in the 1975 Midland Rollmakers advert a few posts above this one so they had been around for a long time and making rolls from late 19th C at least.  It is interesting to note in the context of this thread on the transport of rolls, that Perrys was less than 1/2 mile from the Spring Vale steelworks (locally known as Stewarts and Llloyds - closed 1984) which was served with sidings from the Stour Valley line south of Wolverhampton.  By the way there is still a link with the steel industry on the same Perrys site (looks like many of the original buildings survive) as C & S Steel is there making black and bright rod.

 

 

 

Highfields today - Original Perrys building still standing

 

Another fact which may be of interest is that looking at the site on Google maps there is the remaining track of a railway line passing adjacent to the site of Perrys and runs to Priestfield and Wolverhampton low level, passing just to the east of the Spring Vale steelworks, now demolished, the site of the original works is a business and retail area.  Perhaps there was movement of rolls between the two by rail - there is an area to the North of the Perrys factory site on the opposite side of the road which is still clear and could have held sidings?  This particular line to the Spring Vale and on to Wolverhampton are the remains of the GWR line (originally the OWW) and the picture on the Perrys history shows a roll loaded on to a GWR road wagon, perhaps moving it to the rail sidings? This same line also ran South to pass the Bloomfield Steelworks next to Bloomfield Junction on the Stour Valley line (LNWR) with sidings opposite the works with road link. I'm not sure if there were rolling mills there but it is in the parish of Tipton of which was said in the 19th C :- 

 

"These sources describe Tipton as a place where `the coal mines are said to be inexhaustible' (Pigot and Co. Directory, 1828/29); where `the parish is celebrated for the richness of its coal and ironstone, and for the number and extent of the iron furnaces, forges, and rolling and slitting mills"

 

And that was just as true up to the 21st C.

 

 The OWW also  provided a direct link between Perrys factory and the Round Oak Steelworks (locally - "The Earl Of Dudley's" - closed 1982) with it's rolling mills - now the Merry Hill shopping centre - in Brierley Hill just 4 miles South of the Perrys factory. So perhaps there was the possibility of rail movement of rolls in the area away from the crowded and narrow local roads. There was also a link from the Stour Valley line to the Patent Shaft rolling mills (closed 1980) at Wednesbury via Bloomfield Junction and the Princes End Branch so perhaps there was the possibility of the movement of rolls by rail (note the LNWR road wagon in the post linked to here).  The Perrys factory was surrounded by canals (Wednesbury Oak Loop and the BCN Bloomfield Junction to Deepfields cut) with narrow hump back bridges built by Georgian canal builders Brindley and Telford so perhaps rail movement would have been a more attractive solution!

 

All pure armchair conjecture of course, but I find the possibility interesting as I was born and bred in the area just a mile or so south  of the Spring Vale works surrounded by a web of rail and canal with a grandfather who was a signalman on both the GWR line and the Stour Valley main line at Deepfields.

 

Terry

 

Edit:  I have just noticed on an old OS map (25 inches to the mile) that the Bloomfield steelworks was indeed a rolling mill.

T

Just some local news but not directly related to steel, the Tarmac head offices are closing at Millfields Road. The site is across the canal from the Bilston steel works (now housing and retail) and it did have a rail connection to the works. The merger with Lafarge has meant that staff have been relocated to Solihull or made redundant. Some of the processes that you can see from the railway remain such as the macadam plant and the ready mixed concrete plant but these have changed ownership.

 

Andy

[Arthur]

Just some local news but not directly related to steel, the Tarmac head offices......

Probably is related Andy, blast furnace slag, crushed and graded, was widely used to make up Tarmacadam. Sometimes called Tarslag, several road building companies had operations at the slag dumps of blast furnace plants, as at Bilston. I wouldn't at all be surprised if the presence of a Tarmac office nearby was once linked to such an operation.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Arthur

[Fat Controller]

Probably is related Andy, blast furnace slag, crushed and graded, was widely used to make up Tarmacadam. Sometimes called Tarslag, several road building companies had operations at the slag dumps of blast furnace plants, as at Bilston. I wouldn't at all be surprised if the presence of a Tarmac office nearby was once linked to such an operation.

Does anyone else remember the Slag Reduction Company? Though the name makes them sound like a mission statement for the Sweeney, I recollect their main activity was crushing and grading slag for all sorts of uses, from top-dressing for pasture to the afore-mentioned aggregate for tarmacadam.

[Debs.]

I recollect their main activity was crushing and grading slag for all sorts of uses........

 

Basic-ally?

[br2975]

Does anyone else remember the Slag Reduction Company? Though the name makes them sound like a mission statement for the Sweeney, I recollect their main activity was crushing and grading slag for all sorts of uses, from top-dressing for pasture to the afore-mentioned aggregate for tarmacadam.

 

Until recently they had a plant on Rover Way, Cardiff oposite the Tremorfa steel works.

 

In the days of the BSC East Moors Works formerly the Guest Keen 'New' Dowlais Works the molten slag was taken by train to the foreshore near the site of the present heliport and tipped into the sea - solidfying as it hit the water, then exploding in a shower of sparks.

.

The locos that performed this task were 'registered' by the GWR - later BR (WR) and/or the BTC.

 

In recent years, the slag from the Tremorfa works was taken by a tipper vehicle across the public road that is Rover Way to the Slag Reduction site - IIRC a driver was killed when the slag slopped over the cab !

 

Brian R

[Arthur]

Nasty!

 

Some works operated their own slag reduction operations, others contracted them out. Certainly one of the blast furnace associated plants would offer quite a nice scenario for a layout, bit like a quarry with a little more variety.

[ElTesha]

Probably is related Andy, blast furnace slag, crushed and graded, was widely used to make up Tarmacadam. Sometimes called Tarslag, several road building companies had operations at the slag dumps of blast furnace plants, as at Bilston. I wouldn't at all be surprised if the presence of a Tarmac office nearby was once linked to such an operation.

 Hi Arthur,

 

The product Tarmac was invented by one E P Hooley who used slag instead of roadstone coated in tar thus producing Tar Macadam and he founded the company. It was a Wolverhampton company whose head offices were at Ettingshall. Tarmac as a company was founded at the Spring vale site in 1903, in 1905 it was secured by Alfred Hickman who became it's first Chairman.  That is not surprising as the Hickman family had owned the Spring vale Steelworks since 1866.  The Steelworks itself expanded by merger and was incorporated as Alfred Hickman Ltd in 1897, the very same A Hickman who was chairman of Tarmac.

 

Terry

 

.

[ElTesha]

Probably is related Andy, blast furnace slag, crushed and graded, was widely used to make up Tarmacadam. Sometimes called Tarslag, several road building companies had operations at the slag dumps of blast furnace plants, as at Bilston. I wouldn't at all be surprised if the presence of a Tarmac office nearby was once linked to such an operation.

Hi Arthur,

The word Tarslag brings back bittersweet memories for me. The small council housing estate in Coseley where we moved to as a family in the 1950s was just over a mile South of Ettingshall Spring Vale Steelworks, it was still being built as we moved in and the need for housing was so great that the houses were occupied as they were completed, one by one. The estate was known as the Tarslag Estate initially and I was so embarrassed by the sound of the word that when I attended Dudley Grammar school that I missed out the 'Tarslag' part of the address and letters from school often went astray - no postcodes then.

 

Adjacent to the site of the Estate the BCN canal ran in a cut about 30 ft deep before entering the Coseley tunnel. On one side was a company who crushed and graded solid slag for roadstone. They had a series of grading sieves down the slope of the cut to a small wharf at the side of the canal where the graded slag would be loaded into Barges. The sieves were all belt driven and I can remember the noise to this day - might make an interesting, if challenging, working feature on some model someday. The company was known as William Gilberts, now gone and forgotten.

 

Terry

 

(Edit: I should have said 'narrowboats' rather than 'barges', but that is how we called them then)

(I should also have said that Tarmac were the main building contractors for the estate)

Edited November 6, 2013 by ElTesha

[Arthur]

Thanks for that Terry, yes, the Tarslag Estate doesn't really conjour up the image of a rural idyll! Of course, today, they'd call it 'Badgers Bottom' or 'Kingfisher Dell' rather than the 'Old Gas Works' or 'Erstwhile Phosgene Plant'......

 

Slag has lots of uses, and over the years has been an important part in steelworks economics. Blast Furnace slag was crushed for road stone and railway ballast, being lime rich it can be ground down to make slag cement, it can be aerated to make building blocks or a porous medium for use in sewerage plants, and blown, whilst molten, into filaments to make slagwool insulation.

 

Edit; Tarmacadam was a good trade for many ironworks as they could also supply the tar from their own coke ovens.

 

The slag from basic (in the chemical sense) steel furnaces is high in phosphorous and some is sold as basic slag fertiliser.

Edited November 6, 2013 by Arthur

[jwealleans]

Does anyone else remember the Slag Reduction Company?

I believe they are a customer of mine - in the time I've dealt with them they've been Heckett Multiserve, then Multiserve, then Harco Multiserve (possibly) and they're presently just Harsco, or possibly Harsco Metals.

[ElTesha]

Thanks for that Terry, yes, the.....................

 

Slag has lot's of uses, and over the years has been an important part in steelworks economics. Blast Furnace slag was crushed for road stone and railway ballast, being lime rich it can be ground down to make slag cement, it can be aerated to make building blocks or a porous medium for use in sewerage plants, and blown, whilst molten, into filaments to make slagwool insulation..................................

 

 Hi Arthur,

 

Not only those uses, but on a more homely level my mum and dad collected large lumps of the stuff (approximately 8" across)  to make a rockery and low decorative retaining wall on part of our sloping garden which was on two levels.  As far as I know it is still there nearly 60 years on!

 

Good stuff this nostalgia!

 

Terry

 

p.s. I've always had cavity walls in my houses filled with 'Rockwool' damn good stuff too.

 

T.

Edited November 6, 2013 by ElTesha

[Fat Controller]

Thanks for that Terry, yes, the Tarslag Estate doesn't really conjour up the image of a rural idyll! Of course, today, they'd call it 'Badgers Bottom' or 'Kingfisher Dell' rather than the 'Old Gas Works' or 'Erstwhile Phosgene Plant'......

 

Slag has lots of uses, and over the years has been an important part in steelworks economics. Blast Furnace slag was crushed for road stone and railway ballast, being lime rich it can be ground down to make slag cement, it can be aerated to make building blocks or a porous medium for use in sewerage plants, and blown, whilst molten, into filaments to make slagwool insulation.

 

Edit; Tarmacadam was a good trade for many ironworks as they could also supply the tar from their own coke ovens.

 

The slag from basic (in the chemical sense) steel furnaces is high in phosphorous and some is sold as basic slag fertiliser.

In the Swansea area, slag from iron and copper works was cast in crude moulds to give blocks that could be used instead of stone in applications such as  retaining walls for cuttings- if you look carefully at the walls around the railway as you go from Swansea High St to Cockett Tunnel, you'll see examples. Bigger lumps were dumped along the sea wall between Llanelli and Burry Port as 'rock armour'

[hmrspaul]

Does anyone else remember the Slag Reduction Company? Though the name makes them sound like a mission statement for the Sweeney, I recollect their main activity was crushing and grading slag for all sorts of uses, from top-dressing for pasture to the afore-mentioned aggregate for tarmacadam.

 

Until recently they had a plant on Rover Way, Cardiff oposite the Tremorfa steel works.

 

In the days of the BSC East Moors Works formerly the Guest Keen 'New' Dowlais Works the molten slag was taken by train to the foreshore near the site of the present heliport and tipped into the sea - solidfying as it hit the water, then exploding in a shower of sparks.

.

The locos that performed this task were 'registered' by the GWR - later BR (WR) and/or the BTC.

 

In recent years, the slag from the Tremorfa works was taken by a tipper vehicle across the public road that is Rover Way to the Slag Reduction site - IIRC a driver was killed when the slag slopped over the cab !

 

Brian R

 

A couple of nice LMS Iron Ore hoppers, converted with a roof and top hatches for Cardiff Slag Reduction here http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/alliedsteelwire/edbf91d1

 and http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/alliedsteelwire/e17746725

 

Paul

[hmrspaul]

Thanks for that Terry, yes, the Tarslag Estate doesn't really conjour up the image of a rural idyll! Of course, today, they'd call it 'Badgers Bottom' or 'Kingfisher Dell' rather than the 'Old Gas Works' or 'Erstwhile Phosgene Plant'......

 

Slag has lots of uses, and over the years has been an important part in steelworks economics. Blast Furnace slag was crushed for road stone and railway ballast, being lime rich it can be ground down to make slag cement, it can be aerated to make building blocks or a porous medium for use in sewerage plants, and blown, whilst molten, into filaments to make slagwool insulation.

 

Edit; Tarmacadam was a good trade for many ironworks as they could also supply the tar from their own coke ovens.

 

The slag from basic (in the chemical sense) steel furnaces is high in phosphorous and some is sold as basic slag fertiliser.

Away from the Black Country, Clyde Cement used blast furnace slag to make cement http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/clydecementpba  http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/clydecementpda

 

Paul

[45156]

Just ploughed through this thread and I've got to say that BCB has come on just a bit since I saw the early stages at Stafford member's day a couple of years ago.

[avonside1563]

Just ploughed through this thread and I've got to say that BCB has come on just a bit since I saw the early stages at Stafford member's day a couple of years ago.

 

The members day was less than 16 months ago!