How do you model embedded track?

[Alcanman]

Hi,

 

One of the noticeable aspects of modelling modern industrial areas is that it is common for track to be embedded with ballast/dirt to the extent that the ties are not visible.

 

I would like to include this in my new layout Deerfield Beach, FL. Here is an example of what I would like to achieve, which has so far eluded me.

 

 

I've looked at the various Woodland Scenics products and also Noch Terrain Structure Paste.

 

http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/130690010661?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&cbt=y

 

Any suggestions would be welcome.

 

 

Thanks, Mal

[shortliner]

Mal FWIW I have in front of me "Iota - the end of a very short line" from May 1972 RMC - all his track is buried in windblown soil - his method was paper from a brown paper shopping bag, soaked in water and glued down over the ties with white glue - if you need more info an email address via PM will solve the problem

[Barry Ten]

Isn't it just a question of normal ballasting to at least the tops of the sleepers, and then maybe adding another layer of finer material over that (eg ash or something), mixed in with weeds and so forth? You'll not want to hide the ties completely, either, judging by that photo - just have some visible and some concealed.

[buffalo]

This is a question that comes up quite often, though I hadn't heard of Jack's brown paper solution before. Here's a recent topic on much the same question. It also contains a few links to other threads, and a bit of searching will find even more.

 

Nick

 

edit: link above is more about stonework, this one may also be of interest, note in particular Chris Nevard's use of DAS clay.

[trevorsmith3489]

How about sand,

either collected from the beach, cleaned with bleach and lots of water to get rid of the salt,

or the fine white sand sold for aquatic use.

 

Stage 1 is to put down a thin layer of ground cove underneath the track and before starting any ballasting. (This can then be used to wick the adhesive you use into the ballast, I use beach sand.)

Stage 2 is to paint the ties to create a matt finish - this will aid the wicking of the glue at a later stage

Stage 3 is to lay the track

Stage 4 is to add your usual ballast material to the height of the ties,

Stage 5 is to use a fine seive to sprinkle on the sand to cover the ties to the thickness you want.

Stage 6 is to wick your "glue," - Johnson Clear or PVA mixed with water and washing up liquid. The original layer of ground cover will aid the caperillary action of the glue, as will the matt finish to the sleepers, and prevent the ballast from pooling or coming away from the ties.

Stage 7, add greenery to taste

 

Hope that gives you a few ideas.

[roundhouse]

I have used fine silver sand that is then passed through a sieve onto the tracks.

 

I tend to do an initial layoer, add diluted pva. Once its soaked into the sand and any rogue bits moved with a small jewelers screw driver, I then add a final layer to the level I am after. The final layer then soaks up some of the diluted pva. already added.

 

Ian

[dave1905]

What is PVA?

[Kenton]

One problem with the sand approach is that for large areas it adds considerably to the weight of the board, all too easy to overlook until you come to lift it.

 

Even using hydrocal or DAS can soon add weight.

[scouser]

PVA is white woodworking glue.

[dave_long]

Personally I'd go for the Chris Nevard approach and use an air dry clay such as DAS or humbrol. See here http://nevardmedia.blogspot.co.uk/2011/08/creating-effect-of-ash-ballast.html

 

You get from this http://www.flickr.com/photos/nevardmedia/3162098171/in/set-72157612039096669 to this http://www.flickr.com/photos/nevardmedia/3162933746/in/set-72157612039096669

[buffalo]

PVA is white woodworking glue.

PVA is Poly Vinyl Acetate, a synthetic polymer used in various dilutions for a very wide range of applications, including wood conservation, sealing brickwork before plastering, etc. It is a major component of white woodworking (and other purpose) glues, but these often include other substances.

 

Nick

[roundhouse]

One problem with the sand approach is that for large areas it adds considerably to the weight of the board, all too easy to overlook until you come to lift it.

 

Even using hydrocal or DAS can soon add weight.

 

If you are doing the whole layout it would add weight but no more than granite ballast. If you are doing a siding or two then the weight is negligible.

 

Ian

 

[trisonic]

What is PVA?

 

Basically: Elmer's White Glue, Dave.

 

Best, Pete.

[trisonic]

I've got some Arizona Fine White Sand, locally, which is ideal - you only need a thin but varying depth layer (on top of ballast) and you can paint it with an acrylic/water mix too. It can also be crushed but the grain size does vary a bit anyway. I think Home Depot sell it as Play Sand.

 

Try mixing in cigarette ash too - the aroma disappears once you've worked it.

 

You really have to experiment on a piece of scrap track to see what works for you.

 

Best, Pete.

[roundhouse]

Peter

 

I was just going to say best to have a go at all the if different methods on a piece of scrap track then decide which is best.

 

Ian

[trisonic]

Ian, Yes the advantage of that is that the experimenter may find a better way - then he can tell us!

 

Edit: I just wanted to add that the area around the track could be infilled with cast off foamboard or something about the same depth as the sleeprs/ties. Then covered with a grit / earth / groundcover.

 

Best, Pete.

[roundhouse]

Too true Peter!

 

Mals modelling on Palmetto was superb.

 

Ian

[Alcanman]

Hi, Thanks to all for the quick replies and ideas. Perhaps the best idea, as suggested by Pete and Ian, is to experiment on some spare track. Why didn't I think of that!

 

As, I've already ballasted all of the layout up to tie level, I need to top up using fine sand or Noch Terrain paste which looks textured and will blend in with the Woodland Scenics ballast.

 

I did try the Chris Nevard Air Clay system a few years ago on my last UK layout, 'Websters Steel'. However, whilst it worked reasonably well for roads, it was less convincing used on track as it looked too smooth.

 

 

Thanks again,

 

Mal

[dave_long]

The stippling with a thick strong bristled brush is the way to avoid the smoothness problem. But your probably right as you've ballasted already then it's probably not the best route. Although Geoscenics does a kit that is supposed replicate oil baked sidings which isn't as smooth should the need arise in the future.

[Jon Gwinnett]

Das clay is (or was) actually a paper based product so may well be a proprietery version of Jack's brown paper method. Days comes in white or terracotta flavours - I'd suggest white for you colour palette for south Florida, with some black paint mixed in to give a pale grey base, then paint to choice. I thoroughly recommend hunting out Christ Nevard's how to articles - he's a top bloke, and maybe Mal emulating his work would be all we need to tempt him to the dark side!

[br2975]

For the 'blinding' to give a finer finish on top of the ballast, I've used the ash remains from the bottom of my wood burner.

.

But don't do what I did, and take a few containers on the plane in your check-in luggage.

.

I don't believe the Ikea containers opened themselves, and unwrapped the bags they were covered in !!!!!

.

I can just imagine the customs officers "it's ash, not hash !"

.

Brian R

[trisonic]

Real Talcum powder is good for the fine stuff too.

 

 

Best, Pete.

[alastairq]

I can just imagine the customs officers "it's ash, not hash !"

.

 

 

Could have been worse....is the a Law against exporting dead relatives?

[dave1905]

I've heard they get suspicious when you have stacks of "dead presidents" in your luggage. Though not a worry I have.

[dave1905]

One person I knew used diatomaceous earth (swimming pool filter media) for fine dirt and colored it with powdered paint/pigment.

 

One caveat is that many fine powders are abrasive and can irritate eyes and affect gearboxes and bearings if not secured