Rugd1022 Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-18159556 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 22, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 22, 2012 That seems to be an old link Nidge - is this the incident you mean? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-18159556 I noticed coming back up the A4 at c.14.50 that the lane down to Ufton Crossing was closed with the police in attendance and clearly a lot more of them down in the vicinity of the crossing so I wondered if something had happened on the crossing? Alas at the moment it is probably a bit busier than normal with the bridges on both sides of it closed for rebuilding and an alternative route which goes west of Aldermaston. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted May 22, 2012 Author Share Posted May 22, 2012 Sorry Mike yes, that's the one... something seems to have gone amiss when I was trying to post the link. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 5944 Posted May 22, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 22, 2012 Not a good day on the Great Western today. In addition to that, vandalism at Nailsea and Backwell delayed services, someone was hit by a train between Swindon and Bristol Parkway, a level crossing problems at Pontyclun, and finally lineside equipment failure near Paddington. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Not a good day on the Great Western today. In addition to that, vandalism at Nailsea and Backwell delayed services, someone was hit by a train between Swindon and Bristol Parkway, a level crossing problems at Pontyclun, and finally lineside equipment failure near Paddington. Plus signalling problems at Didcot East mid-morning and in the evening peak, and an HST sat down with total loss of air on the up main at Didcot. Quite how anyone can run a service with all of that happening in one day is beyond me. As the HST driver at Didcot said to me this evening, everything that could go wrong did go wrong today. Staff out of position and out of hours across the network, trains out of position and moving to different diagrams, information systems struggling to keep up - clearly a day of human tragedy for a couple of families today, but on a purely operational level, Mr Hopwood and his team will have their work cut out tonight to put it all back together in time for tomorrow's service. It's so easy for people to criticise the railways when things like this go wrong, but it clearly takes a really high level of skill and commitment on the part of the train crews, platform staff, signallers and engineers to make some sort of order from this level of chaos. I know that I couldn't do it..... David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 You forgot the Controllers, David; they'll have been earning their money today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 You forgot the Controllers, David; they'll have been earning their money today. Oops - and you are so right Brian. I hope they're paid top dollar for what they do when things like this happen. It must take a very talented team to understand how to move all the human and mechanical pieces on the chessboard without breaching employment law, safety regs, union agreements, fuel tank capacities, etc, while minimising passenger and staff disruption, and always thinking about six moves ahead for each train, train crew, franchise obligation, etc. So that involves the reworking of the usual daily plans for 50+ HSTs, a similar number of Turbos, plus more 150s, 158s etc, hundreds of train crIew, thousands of passengers, interfaces with freight operators and Network Rail, and all without any time to sit down and work out a plan. So how do they do it? I bet my 07.20 from Didcot will turn up tomorrow morning on time, cleaned and serviced overnight, regardless of where the diagrammed set ended up tonight. Quite remarkable when you think about what's involved. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Not to forget trespass and signal faults in the Wimbledon area this afternoon. BBC Radio London was all about trains for once as I left Raynes Park tonight. What a mess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ullypug Posted May 22, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 22, 2012 Oh and the failed HST at Lawrence Hill on a diverted S Wales to Paddington via Dr Days Jnc which shut down the north area of Bristol for an hour or so this afternoon. The PA announcers were doing their best but it was chaotic to say the least. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
devondynosoar118 Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 That crossing seems to have been an issue a number of times before. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 22, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 22, 2012 Oops - and you are so right Brian. I hope they're paid top dollar for what they do when things like this happen. It must take a very talented team to understand how to move all the human and mechanical pieces on the chessboard without breaching employment law, safety regs, union agreements, fuel tank capacities, etc, while minimising passenger and staff disruption, and always thinking about six moves ahead for each train, train crew, franchise obligation, etc. So that involves the reworking of the usual daily plans for 50+ HSTs, a similar number of Turbos, plus more 150s, 158s etc, hundreds of train crIew, thousands of passengers, interfaces with freight operators and Network Rail, and all without any time to sit down and work out a plan. So how do they do it? I bet my 07.20 from Didcot will turn up tomorrow morning on time, cleaned and serviced overnight, regardless of where the diagrammed set ended up tonight. Quite remarkable when you think about what's involved. David It's not too difficult to put it back together overnight provided the infrastructure is back up to scratch and there are enough working sets in the toy cupboard. The real challenge comes when routes are closed for whatever reason and/or there are serious set or crew shortages - at which point it would be taken out of the shift Controllers' hands and the 'fire fighter(s) - i.e, 'instant timetable planners' were moved in to replan and produce a new timetable for the following day, hoping to get it ready before the day started or just rebuilding it as you went along by trying to get a few jumps ahead of where things currently are and writing a trainplan and timetable they would drop into in a few hours time thus ending the Control Office ad-hocery which was keeping something going in the meanwhile. And doing something like that really is like a form of three dimensional chess, but could be immensely satisfying as what you put together actually, and reliably , worked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 22, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 22, 2012 That crossing seems to have been an issue a number of times before. It has. And in many respects all totally unnecessary as there are (when they're not being rebuilt) alternative routes via bridges within a few miles either side of it. In fact it was recommended some years ago that the crossing be shut but West Berkshire Council objected as a number of folk in Ufton Nervet were not happy about their daily journey being almost a couple of miles longer so the closure recommended by an HMRI Inspecting Officer and supported by BR never took place. There is, so I understand, no economic case to replace the crossing with an overbridge - on a financial and risk basis it came out easily as a very strong case for total closure when assessed by the HMRI. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
devondynosoar118 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 As usual peoples lives seem to figure low on the reckoning, with the time saved more important. I didn't realise anyone could over rule a safety decision like that. Maybe closure will happen now, although too late to save another life. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
26021977 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I used to live within a a couple of miles of Ufton - if someone on a motorbike has been killed when the barriers are down and lights flashing I'd say Darwinism was at work its a pretty obvious crossing - very well sign posted - unless of course it was suicide. Personally I preferred it when it was fully gated with semophores - a WW2 signal box and D E Canning working the levers in between taking shots of Westerns. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted May 23, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 23, 2012 I used to live within a a couple of miles of Ufton - if someone on a motorbike has been killed when the barriers are down and lights flashing I'd say Darwinism was at work its a pretty obvious crossing - very well sign posted - unless of course it was suicide. Sadly that may be the case. Wandering slightly off topic, the other night I was at Westerfield, which has a half barrier crossing, the alarms sounded, the barriers dropped and a guy, in full jogging gear, ran up to the barriers, paused then moved around them, looked to his right and saw the passenger approaching but far enough away for him to consider it safe to cross, so over he went.... fortunately the liner coming the other way at the same time was far enough away to miss him too albeit with a few choice whistles. He hadn't spotted that, apparently believing the barriers were down for a train, he saw a train and decided it was still ok for him to cross, 10 seconds later and my video would not have been pleasant. I hope the scare will make him think twice next time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share Posted May 23, 2012 Somehow I doubt it Beast, there seems to be a certain 'mindset' amongst some folk who really do think "it can't and won't happen to me". Jogging along, that particular fellow made a split second decision and got away with it, and being on foot I think it's fair to assume he's local, so there's a good chance he'll try his luck again. Sadly, the word 'consequences' doesn't appear to be in some people's vocabulary these days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 As usual peoples lives seem to figure low on the reckoning, with the time saved more important. I didn't realise anyone could over rule a safety decision like that. Maybe closure will happen now, although too late to save another life. I don't think lives should come into it, if the crossing was functioning correctly then some other item in the equation clearly wasn't. Beyond providing information and basic and obvious safety (barriers, signs, lights) anything else is just nannying. People have to take a certain degree of responsibility. Closing the crossing to inconvenience the rest simply is not required. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 23, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 23, 2012 I don't think lives should come into it, if the crossing was functioning correctly then some other item in the equation clearly wasn't. Beyond providing information and basic and obvious safety (barriers, signs, lights) anything else is just nannying. People have to take a certain degree of responsibility. Closing the crossing to inconvenience the rest simply is not required. It isn't just about lives, or wasn't when this crossing was assessed. The assessment process took numerous factors into account of which 'risk' is only part but is a statistical known (in fact Ufton exceeds the statistical average - which is why it's future was assessed; for some reason, notwithstanding a very good road approach view in both directions, it has a higher than average rate of incidents). In such cases all the alternatives are examined and costed - this used to be done by HMRI's level crossing specialist although I'm not sure who in HMRI does it since his retirement (but I can guess) and the range considered runs through all the possible alternatives from a bridge or crossing closure downwards - and on every factor, including costing the inconvenience and added mileage for the few present users who would have a longer road journey to one of the nearby bridges, the result was closure as the best case. Then it just got embroiled in local politics, since when the crossing has seen multiple deaths. Yesterday's incidents was attended by at least 4 police vehicles (that was the ones I saw, an hour after the event) plus probably an ambulance, railway personnel, and there will no doubt be interest from at least one of the regulating/inspecting bodies, plus the costs of train diversions and cancellations. I should think what is spent on the aftermath would pay for the local's longer road mileage for a decade or more, it's not just lives but the brutal fact of economics and the impact such incidents have on the lives and business of other people. In fact those who would have suffered the least inconvenience yesterday would be the ones who had objected to the permanent closure of the crossing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Sure I understand those points, and not wishing to speculate on causes of this particular incident, there has to be a limit on how far we go in trying to prevent man's intent on self-destruction. Something that could simply be transferred to another location and would still involve much the same in emergency service response. Accidents, no matter how preventable, will continue to happen on roads of all kinds. The great majority of public using this crossing and others do so with respect and with the only desire to be able to cross in safety. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 It not so much a wish to prevent people killing themselves through misuse, as a wish to prevent the costs ensued when people do. I agree, people should take responsibility for their actions, but unfortunatly when they are irresponsible it affects everyone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Parkinson Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Personally I agree with the previous postings re people taking responsibility for their own actions. The majority of crossings are safe if people abide by the normally clearly notified instructions eg don't cross when the warning lights are flashing/barriers down etc, its not rocket science. Unfortunately we live in a world where common sense does not apply to some people and who have a view that why should they be inconvenienced for a few minutes and that if it goes wrong when they don't abide by the rules its someone elses fault eg Network Rail. For instance in the area of Kent where I live there has been a highly publicised aof a young girl who having missed her last train home decided to walk along an electrified line and was subsequently killed, tragic I know but instead of blaming NR where is the common sense? This case was front page news in the local media but what happens again a year or so later but the same thing on the same line!!!! Why do people think nothing about doing this on a railway line but wouldn't do so on a motorway?? Regards Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Why do people think nothing about doing this on a railway line but wouldn't do so on a motorway?? Don't be so sure they don't, it is just more difficult to find someone to blame. These incidents are tragic but there is no helping some folk in their rush to prove they were not blessed with functioning brain cells. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.