Slater's OO Wagon Kits - A Photographic Build Record

[leavesontheline]

Hello all, I'm just wondering if there are any useful hints and tips from experienced builders of Slater's wagon kits in OO? I have a few now, bought at local shows and am about to start building them. I have quite alot of past experience of building plastic kits (non-rail) but i was just wondering if there is anything special i should know before starting. I searched on here expectng to find someone had already done a 'masterclass' photographic build type thread but couldn't find anything remotely close which surprised me!

Some specific questions:

1. What is the best build sequence?
2. What is the recommended method/tooling for keeping everything square and true?
3. What are the 'bearings' mentioned in the instructions (I thought the only additional items needed were paint, wheels and couplings?). Can anyone advise where i can find such bearings?
4. What would be a suitable aftermarket NEM pocket for me to fit underneath to take the couplings?

I'd appreciate any help and advice you may be able to provide as I'm sure there must be literally 1000's of hours of collective experience of these kits on this forum! i could just take a risk and learn the hard way but why 're-invent the wheel'!

Thanks and apologies for such a basic query! Seems a bit lame to be asking for advice on kit building when I look at some of the amazing scratchbuilding going on on here!

Edited March 14, 2013 by leavesontheline

[brossard]

Make d**n sure the underframe is square and flat. Obtain a dead flat surface like a piece of glass and engineer's square. Bearings can be had from Markits or Alan Gibson. Parkside Dundas sell the NEM pockets. Take your time - don't rush. This might be useful: http://www.micromark.com/HO-Truck-Tuner,8241.html I built some too tight so that the wheels were stiff. This tool will ream out the brass bearing slightly and get the wheels rolling freely.

 

They're good kits but can be made better by substituting the plastic brakes for etched brass from either Mainly Trains or Bill Bedford (Eileen's Emporium).

 

John

[BR60103]

The bearings should be in the packet with the wheels -- little brass things.

The last time I built some, I didn't notice that the bearings (top hat type) hadn't settled all the way in -- the brim on the hat was caught on the inside bracing of the axle box. The wagon has axle boxes and solebar on one side canted outwards. A bit of work with drill file or knife on the other wagon let it sit squarely.

There's less problem with the brimless bearings.

[leavesontheline]

Thanks for the information chaps. I have a granite kitchen worktop-saver which is pretty flat. I guess I was just wondering if it is best to build the sides and then drop the underframe in per the instructions or is there a more cunning way to ensure it all ends up square?

 

As for wheels, unfortunately mine have no bearings! I bought a couple of packets of Hornby wheels a while ago to re-wheel old Hornby, Lima, Airfix and Mainline RTR models I had from childhood, where they still had the original plastic wheels fitted (much quieter mind!) and had quite a few of the spoked wagon wheels left over. I was wondering what to do with them when I saw one of the Slaters kits at a show, packaged minus wheels and ballast weight. I bought a packet of the ballast weights, then a few months later I bought another kit, then a bit later a couple more ..... and now it would be ironic if I can't easily use the Hornby wheels!

 

I'm assuming that I can get a packet of the brass bearings (Romford pinpoint bearings? Is that the type of thing I need.....?) and thats it? It just looks like the hole in the back of the axle box is too big and sloppy to take the point on the Hornby wheelset axle as it is, hence the need for the bearings? I'm just surprised when I bought the first couple of kits, the chap didn't point this out? Maybe I looked like I knew what I was doing? I certainly remember asking quite basic questions about the kits, which led me to getting the ballast weights.

 

I had a look at the Parkside Dundas website, and because for most of the coupling parts they don't show pictures, I can't be sure of what I want/need! I just want to be able to fit an NEM pocket, with a 'float' mechanism if possible, and for the time being one of the Bachmann/Dapol style small NEM couplings at each end. I suppose I'll just have to wait until I'm next in a suitable shop/show so I can see and handle the relevant parts!

 

Maybe when I get all the bits together I'll do my own photographic build - I won't call it a 'master class', more like a 'what not to do' lessons learnt type exercise!

 

Thanks again!

[halfwit]

Romford brass bearings will be fine, as will those from Markits, Gibson etc.

 

A photographic build sounds like a fine idea and is probably the best way to get advice etc.

[brossard]

The 2 DVD set on Wagons from BRM/Activity Media hosted by Iain Rice is well worth getting.

 

John

[Poor Old Bruce]

You don't say which wagons you have. If you have any of the Midland Railway 9ft wb wagons (Coke, 8T 3-Plank, 8T Van, 5-Plank), check that the solebars and headstocks line up when the floor is located in the slot on the ends. They didn't when originally made so it's worth checking.

[Jules]

Nothing to add to the above except that I think the slaters kits are some of the easiest and best around to put together. I love 'em!

[leavesontheline]

Thanks all for the feedback.

 

Bruce - they are all just bog standard 5, 6 and 7 plank private owner wagons. On a dry run they all seem to go together quite well.

 

As soon as I find a supplier of bearings I'll post a photo-build, warts and all!

[Poor Old Bruce]

Bruce - they are all just bog standard 5, 6 and 7 plank private owner wagons. On a dry run they all seem to go together quite well.

 

Should be OK then. AFAIK it was just the MR 9ft wb wagons which had the problem.

[57xx]

I'm assuming that I can get a packet of the brass bearings (Romford pinpoint bearings? Is that the type of thing I need.....?) and thats it? It just looks like the hole in the back of the axle box is too big and sloppy to take the point on the Hornby wheelset axle as it is, hence the need for the bearings?

 

Yes, the bearings will drop straight in the holes on the back of the axle box. You might need to check the length of the Hornby axles to make sure they'll be ok to run, otherwise Parkside do suitable wheels complete with bearings on this page.

 

I had a look at the Parkside Dundas website, and because for most of the coupling parts they don't show pictures, I can't be sure of what I want/need! I just want to be able to fit an NEM pocket, with a 'float' mechanism if possible, and for the time being one of the Bachmann/Dapol style small NEM couplings at each end.

 

You need part number PA34 from this page.

 

You don't say which wagons you have. If you have any of the Midland Railway 9ft wb wagons (Coke, 8T 3-Plank, 8T Van, 5-Plank), check that the solebars and headstocks line up when the floor is located in the slot on the ends. They didn't when originally made so it's worth checking.

 

I'm just putting together a 9ft wheelbase LMS 5 plank open and found the solebars are actually too short (yes, I did use the longer of the two sets of solebars supplied in the kit). Nothing a bit of plasticard packing won't solve, but still a pain if I hadn't spotted it doing a dry run!

Edited June 24, 2012 by 57xx

[jwealleans]

A general tip related to the above re bearings and solebars; when building plastic kits, put one set of W irons (usually part of the solebar moulding) in place, check it's square, then leave overnight to set. Then when nicely solid, experiment with axle lengths and bearings to ensure you get a free running vehicle and also (by positioning the other set of W irons) that your axles will be square to the sides and parallel. Brassmasters do a very handy jig for this purpose.

 

Slaters aren't so bad but some Cambrian kits need shoulderless bearings and others are fine with shouldered and it's better to find out before you've glued anything immovably into place.

[GWR Chris]

Hello, this is a very worthwhile topic. I made a number of mistakes when first assembling Slaters and Parkside wagon kits. These related to axle lengths and variations in the moulded underframes on the kits.

One thing I learnt early is that different manufacturers use different axle lengths.

The standard finescale OO wheelset is 26mm pin point to pin point (51L Wizard/Romford/Alan Gibson).

Bachmann wheelsets are 25mm. I found the wheel diameter to be bigger than the standard 12mm too.

Incidentally, Peco wheels are about 24mm and Ratio plastics about 27mm pin point to pin point.

The kits generally assemble to be about right for 26mm wheelsets without adjustment (just the usual rubber band round the axle boxes while the glue sets). However some Slaters kits need the ends of the underframe pared down so the axle boxes are not too far apart. I find they need to be 23mm across the frames (ie back-to-back of the axle box plastic assembly). I didn't do this the first time and had the axle boxes leaning in at an alarming angle to meet the wheels! Not a success ...

 

Looking forward to seeing some pics.

 

Chris

[Jol Wilkinson]

I suggest you use a "slow" solvent for assembling the plastic parts, especially the body. Something like Limonene from Wizard Models works well. The more aggressive solvents such as Butanone can create distortion as they dry, pulling the ends/sides into a concave curve.

[halfwit]

If you are using shouldered bearings and the axleboxes are too far apart you can use thin 2mm washers between the shoulder and the axlebox to reduce the slop.

Haven't got any washers? Drill some 2mm holes in thin styrene and cut out a washer with a scalpel.

[Il Grifone]

I've built lots of these - they make up into an excellent model.

 

I always build the underframe first. Attach one solebar first, making sure it's square, using just a small quantity of solvent. Once set, assemble the other solebar, fitting bearings and wheels, again with a minimal quantity of solvent. Once set and all is square and free running, fix firmly with more solvent (I leave them several days to set hard) and then the rest of the kit can be assembled. Take care with the buffer collars Open them out slightly so that they fit easily on the buffer head and then fit the buffer head (I use just a drop of polystyrene cement to hold it) and then slide the collar into position. The weak initial assembly allows the kit to be dismantled to correct errors. (Things have a nasty habit of moving while setting I find.)

 

Originally these wagons had only one set of brake gear, but were modified later (new builds from 1911, but I gather it took a while to modify the older wagons) Normally they had open spoke wheels but Hornby will do.

 

Bearings can be obtained direct from Markits or more cheaply on eBay. Romford/Markits bearings are slightly different in depth to other makes (I understand they are intended for slightly closer axleguard spacing than the standard 24mm.

 

Hornby wheels have a standard 26mm axle, whereas Bachmann favour the NMRA standard of 1 inch. (Their wheels are to NMRA RP25-110). Both are (correctly)12.6mm in diameter - most other wheels being 12mm

[leavesontheline]

Some great stuff coming out here guys, so thankyou all for your input. Thanks for the links 57XX - particularly for the connectors. At the moment I only have a packet of Bachmann 36-026 couplings which I fear would not offer enough lateral movement.

 

As you point out Il Grifone, the Hornby wheels I have, have a 26mm point to point axle. Interested to know what you mean by 'open spoke' though? I have a packet or two of Hornby R8098 which seem to be pretty much the same as all my RTR PO wagons come fitted with ...... is there another type I don't know about?

 

I have some Romford flanged and flangeless bearings about to go on order, along with one or two other bits and pieces. I can get the required washers from my local shop thanks halfwit (re: post #15 above, in case anyone thought I was calling them a halfwit!), so if I need them I can get them easily, he just didn't have the bearings in stock.

 

So as soon as I get everything together, I'll start posting some piccies of my attempts ..... which hopefully will be 'right first time' thanks to all the lessons learnt on here!!

 

It would be gratifying for me to 'put something back' into RMWeb after lurking on here for so long!

[Rail-Online]

One thng to watch on the Slaters PO bodies, they do not have a true 45 degree champher at the corners. File these to 45 degrees before glueing together, it makes for much neater 'professional' corners. The floors will also need trimming to exact length, perhaps lengthening.

 

I do mine the opposite to others, I glue assemble two side/ends at 90 degrees. Leave overnight to harden. Then fit to floor checking & adjusting length and glue the 'L' shaped sides/ends onto the floor and each other. Then work on the solebar/axlebox assembly getting them all square as detailed above.

 

I have build about 50 Slaters POs and refurbished many more built badly!

 

Tony

[halfwit]

Interested to know what you mean by 'open spoke' though? I have a packet or two of Hornby R8098 which seem to be pretty much the same as all my RTR PO wagons come fitted with ...... is there another type I don't know about?

 

Open or split spoke wheel (Gibson in this case);

 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I suggest you use a "slow" solvent for assembling the plastic parts, especially the body. Something like Limonene from Wizard Models works well. The more aggressive solvents such as Butanone can create distortion as they dry, pulling the ends/sides into a concave curve.

Slaters own Mek-Pak remains my preference for polystyrene kits for just this reason, has the right balance of mobility and solvent action for a neat bond in one capillary application. And if the kit is ever subsequently to be dismantled for repair, the joint typically snaps out very cleanly.

 

I actually think it is an advantage that these kits no longer include the wheelsets and bearings that Slaters originally supplied. While the reduced axle end diameter pinpoint should have produced a good free rolling result, I never succeeded in making them perform as well as MGW/Romford/Markits/Gibsons 2mm diameter axle pinpoints.

[Rail-Online]

I actually think it is an advantage that these kits no longer include the wheelsets and bearings that Slaters originally supplied. While the reduced axle end diameter pinpoint should have produced a good free rolling result, I never succeeded in making them perform as well as MGW/Romford/Markits/Gibsons 2mm diameter axle pinpoints.

 

Wow that was a while ago! I bet the reduced end pinpoints were last supplied 30 years ago! After that it was Maygib in their plastic vac formed 'packets' -they ran much better........

 

Tony

Edited June 26, 2012 by Rail-Online

[Poor Old Bruce]

Wow that was a while ago! I bet the reduced end pinpoints were last supplied 30 years ago! After that it was Maygib in their plastic vac formed 'packets' -they ran much better........

 

And didn't bend so easily

[leavesontheline]

Well, it might be seven and a half months later, but I finally got around to building my first Slaters Wagon kit, starting last Sunday and finishing this evening! I said I would do a photographic build record so that is exactly what I have done! I’m certainly not saying this is the best way to build one, and there are some lessons I learnt along the way and things I may do differently the next time, but overall I am pleased with the results! I chose this particular model (4036B) as I seem to have ended up with two of these over recent years, so I thought if I screwed up one, I still have the second. One might also become my first guinea-pig for weathering..... give that another few months and another post though! 

 

One question with this model - I assume the "maltsters" typo was carried across from the real thing - anyone know?

 

Anyway, I started with this:

 

... and as discussed/recommended in the very useful posts above, a selection of other bits and pieces such as wheels, bearings and couplings, all of which are not included in this particular kit (unlike some of the more recent ones I have purchased):

 

First task, as suggested by the short and sweet assembly instructions, was to ensure that the side and end panel chamfers were de-burred. I did this with a piece of wet and dry on top of my granite slab. This plastic is fairly soft so I had to be careful not to overdo it. I didn't get too hung up on whether I had a nice 45 degree angle though! One of the sides and the two end pieces had to be cut from the sprue first. I did this roughly first with some fine, sharp scissors and then cleaned it up with a craft knife and finally a rub with the wet and dry sandpaper.

 

I then removed all remaining parts from the sprue (without painting - more on this shortly!) and cleaned up all parts in a similar fashion. I am very impressed with the quality of these mouldings with there being minimal flashing to remove from most parts. Some of the complex fine gaps above and below the axle boxes needed opening out but those were easy to do with a fine point bladed craft knife as were the brake assemblies which had minimal flashing.

 

As soon as I cut the buffer beam coupling hooks from the sprue, I glued them in place. Being so small I felt they could easily be lost with an unexpected sneeze!

 

I did the same with the buffer collars, sliding them onto each buffer for safe keeping. I had a play around with both the Romford Plain and Shouldered bearings. The Plain variety, having no 'shoulder' or flange as I would call it, seemed a bit of a sloppy fit in the hole in the back of the axle-box. The Shouldered variety just seemed a more natural fit and of course sat squarely in the hole. Also, the more recent Slaters kits I have bought all seem to come with the Shouldered variety, so I went with these. As I'll come on to later, an extensive trial fit of all parts was conducted before glueing the major parts. This included checking that my Hornby or Bachmann axles fitted correctly between the axle-boxes with these bearings installed.

 

As mentioned above I didn't paint anything at this stage. I gave this considerable thought at the time, and cast my mind back to my younger days of Airfix (and similar) model building where I quickly learnt that paint and glue don't mix! I considered the complexity of the parts, and the paintbrush access I would have when the underframe was built and decided to do all the painting after the underframe was built. I'm still not sure if this was the best thing to do but I'll come on to this later in the post (or thread, depending how far I get with this post!). Despite being so careful when removing the finer parts, I still managed to break one of the brake lever brackets as seen in the photo below. This could have been glued together but was not neccessary in the end as I only intended to fit the brake gear to one side of the wagon as suggested in the instructions. This just hghlights how careful you need to be when removing the fine parts. It is best to cut the most slender parts first and prevent the part from moving whilst doing this. Thus in the next photo are all of the kit parts, ready for assembly, plus the extra parts such as wheels, bearings, ballast weight, NEM couplings and coupling mounting blocks: 

 

I then started a trial fit of parts, as far as possible, to try and prevent any nasty suprises after glue is applied!

 

I found at this stage that the brake gear bars were a nice snug fit between the undefloor cross-members, but maybe a little too snug! The 'snugness' resulted in a slight bowing of the base of the brake assembly so i reduced its length slightly using the wet and dry at each end. This resulted in a really nice fit.

 

The next stage was assembly 'proper' so this seems like a good place to pause for now. This will have to wait until the next post .... hopefully tomorrow.

 

 

 

 

 

[Sasquatch]

Real nice kits aren't they!

Don't forget to round off the corner plates on the non door end with a fine file when truely set as these where bent steel!

Some propriety wheel sets when used on kits foul the brake shoes, they may need filing with a half round needle file.

Watching with interest!

[Rowsley17D]

A bit late I'm afraid but I put the brakes on after fitting the wheels then at least I know the brakes and the wheels line up.