Dock Green

[81A Oldoak]

I would love to Alan but....

 

I don't need another loco for Dock Green (although it would be very nice), I have several substitutes already that I could take, including two tank locos that didn't go to Wimborne. I have wanted a J6 for a while and it would be a good loco for both my home layout and Dock Green.....however my priority must be to finish the layout. Until that's done nothing else will be attempted.

 

Although the list of remaining tasks is substantial I am confident that it will be completed in time for Warley.

 

Chaz

Up bright and early Chaz. I think I shall try to finish construction of my JLTRT BR CCT kit today. I think JLTRT's instructions must be among the worst in the world. 

 

Chris

[chaz]

I think JLTRT's instructions must be among the worst in the world. 

 

Chris

 

Quite a few candidates for that accolade Chris. I've seen some closely typed, all in capitals (so very hard to read), some with no drawings or photographs, no mention of some tricky bit of necessary assembly, a frankly impossible build technique suggested, throw away lines  - "make (this part) from a piece of scrap brass" etc etc. It often seems that some kit producers delight in setting their customers a puzzle  or two - all part of the fun?

 

Chaz

[chaz]

Yet another one of those boring but necessary jobs that I seem to be finding lots of at present...

One of my operating team visited on Thursday evening and we looked at the the layout and discussed progress. he was rather alarmed by how close some of the fine detail is to the edge of the baseboards. He suggested that the fences, in particular, will be prone to damage whilst manhandling the baseboards out of the house, into a van etc. I was very aware of the risks when Peter and I moved the baseboards down from upstairs so I didn't need much persuading!

 

I decided to cut some MDF boards which will be screwed to the front of the baseboards during transit and will protect those sections with delicate stuff near the edge. I didn't make them as tall as the end plates, as this would have added too much extra weight. In the picture you can see that I have cut some lightening holes.

 

I may have to cut more away to further lighten things - before I cut the holes in the MDF board for CD it weighed 2,25Kg - after an hour's work on the power fretsaw the weight was cut to 2Kg - not too impressive. It's a balancing act between reducing the weight and weakening the boards.

 

At present these boards are fixed with wood screws - it will be possible to change these for bolts and T nuts if this proves necessary.

Chaz

Edited May 25, 2013 by chaz

[Donw]

I think 4mm ply could do the job and be a fair bit lighter.

Don

[chaz]

I think 4mm ply could do the job and be a fair bit lighter.

Don

 

I'm sure you are right about the weight Don. I used the MDF as I have a few pieces left over from the sheets I ordered for the end boards,

[trisonic]

Or Lucite/Perspex?

 

Btw have i told you I really like your layout?

 

Best, Pete.

[chaz]

Or Lucite/Perspex?

 

Btw have i told you I really like your layout?

 

Best, Pete.

 

Lucite/Perspex?   Ah, you are thinking that the boards could stay in place? I prefer to remove the the protector plates once the baseboards are put up.

 

Thanks for the comment, Pete. I note you are in the U.S. so will be unlikely to see Dock Green at a show.....

 

Chaz

Edited May 26, 2013 by chaz

[chaz]

I am now working on an operating sequence for Dock Green. This will be a set of A5 flip cards mounted in such a way that the operators see instructions from their side and the public see a short description of what's happening from their's.

 

I decided to prepare the cards on the computer. I had originally intended to keep track of the changing position of stock on a spreadsheet but this proved problematic - I kept forgetting to update it!. So I made up a board with a print of the track layout on it and strips of card representing the locos and wagons that I could move about as I worked my way through.

 

The first photo shows the setup...

 

 

The computer screen has a text file on the right on which I am planning/recording each move. On the left is a MS Publisher file with an A4 page, with a fold line. Below the line are the operator's instructions; above it is the description for the public. Publisher allows text boxes to be upside down and I will flip the top one over so that when the prints are folded and glued both sides appear the right way up.

 

The second photo is of the position board.

 

 

The red card pieces are labelled "train loco", "pilot loco", "BV" (brake van) and "7", "6" ,"5" etc for differing length rakes of wagons. I move these around to record the changing position after each move. Works well and makes preparing a squence away from the layout straightforward. However this is a little-and-often job - after half a dozen steps I begin to glaze over...

 

Chaz

Edited May 26, 2013 by chaz

[chaz]

At last, after all that computer stuff and woodwork (?), some real modelling....

 

Spent the day putting in the last section of railway fence along the front edge of the layout.

 

 

And I couldn't resist posting some snaps of the result...

 

 

 

 

I do like those "Green Line" grass clumps. They certainly look the part if you use enough of them.

 

Eagle-eyed RMwebbers might well spot a lot of bits of the layout still needing work (especially not enough grime!) but it's getting there.

 

Chaz

Edited May 27, 2013 by chaz

[chaz]

More progress this morning with the operating sequence. I'm up to card 21, with many of the cards having two moves on them. Some of these pairs might well be operated simultaneously if two operators are in action. I am thinking of about 30 steps with the last one leaving the stock in the starting position so that the set is cycled through as often as necessary.

 

That's enough keyboard and mouse stuff, this afternoon I'm on some "real" modelling. I fancy a session on the platform barrows.....in my experience sometimes it pays to do what you want to do, and return to the "chore" jobs later - it's all progress.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

I finished the sequence this morning - used my position board to check through all 35 steps to make sure that stock is correctly positioned for each move (or rather each move makes use of the stock as positioned by the last!). Now thoroughly glazed-over after all that keyboard and mouse work. All I have to do now is to print it off and to fix the the support in position above one of the retaining walls.

 

Continued working on the platform barrows, which are an intricate job requiring a lot of very close work. I have decided to set up a topic elsewhere dealing with the barrows. I will post a link here once I have set it up.

 

edit

 

OK here's the link...

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/72286-ex-lner-platform-barrows-in-7mm/

 

 

Chaz

Edited May 29, 2013 by chaz

[Siberian Snooper]

I finished the sequence this morning - used my position board to check through all 35 steps to make sure that stock is correctly positioned for each move (or rather each move makes use of the stock as positioned by the last!). Now thoroughly glazed-over after all that keyboard and mouse work. All I have to do now is to print it off and to fix the the support in position above one of the retaining walls.

 

Continued working on the platform barrows, which are an intricate job requiring a lot of very close work. I have decided to set up a topic elsewhere dealing with the barrows. I will post a link here once I have set it up.

 

edit

 

OK here's the link...

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/72286-ex-lner-platform-barrows-in-7mm/

 

 

Chaz

 

 

Hi Chaz

 

I would try and check it out before you go to a show, as our club layout used a similar idea to create an exhibition sequence only to find a big flaw in it about three quarters of the way through and we had to ad-lib it for the rest of the show.

 

SS

[chaz]

Hi Chaz

 

I would try and check it out before you go to a show, as our club layout used a similar idea to create an exhibition sequence only to find a big flaw in it about three quarters of the way through and we had to ad-lib it for the rest of the show.

 

SS

 

Yes SS, the same thought has ocurred to me. A couple of days are planned when the operating team will gather and we will put up and operate the layout. It will be a full test of the layout, not just the sequence.

 

The main problem I have when planning the sequence is that Dock Green is a small layout with limited scope for a variety of moves. It will be interesting to see if any new combination of moves suggests itself during the trial session.

 

Chaz

[Donw]

It can be something as simple as parking a vehicle in the wrong place which screws up a schedule. I had someone park a railmotor then discover there wasn't an isolating switch which meant meant he couldn't restore a crossover without it moving thus jamming the layout up! I hadn't thought of someone doing that.

Don

[chaz]

It can be something as simple as parking a vehicle in the wrong place which screws up a schedule. I had someone park a railmotor then discover there wasn't an isolating switch which meant meant he couldn't restore a crossover without it moving thus jamming the layout up! I hadn't thought of someone doing that.

Don

 

I think you are right Don. You can't completely design out mistakes - to err is human! I'm hoping the trial running session will help. The function of the sequence is to give the operators a fighting chance of making a good show of Dock Green but it can't stop errors - Sod's law will always apply.

 

Chaz

Edited May 30, 2013 by chaz

[chaz]

Another view of the last section of railway fence, and I must say I'm very pleased with it. We are looking towards the road bridge, the track through the narrow arch leads to the warehouse platform. That timber mineral wagon in the spur has little trace of any paint.

 

While I had the camera out I couldn't resist a second photo. It shows a Peckett 0-4-0ST "Susan" coming up the gradient from the industrial estate beyond the bridge (in reality a small cassette fiddle yard). It was built from an Agenoria etched-brass kit and was given a compensated chassis (essential for an 0-4-0 IMHO).The van to the right, standing on the headshunt, is a grimy LMS standard unfitted wagon, made from a Parkside kit.

Chaz

[chaz]

 

Now here's a question and I would welcome your thoughts. One of my operating team thinks that all this red brick should be black. He has a point, the retaining walls around Kings Cross, at Belle Isle, Hollaway Bank etc were black. Find a colour photo taken in steam days and you can see just how black they were. In fact I had assumed that under the filth they were engineer's blue brick. Now that steam (and London's coal fires) are long gone the weather has had a few years to wash away the grime and they are revealed as red brick.

 

Now the question - when I weather the walls and bridges do I make them black or do I allow some of the red brick to show through? (What ever I do I will be allowing the red brick of the warehouse to show through the grime.)

 

Chaz

[81A Oldoak]

 

Now here's a question and I would welcome your thoughts. One of my operating team thinks that all this red brick should be black. He has a point, the retaining walls around Kings Cross, at Belle Isle, Hollaway Bank etc were black. Find a colour photo taken in steam days and you can see just how black they were. In fact I had assumed that under the filth they were engineer's blue brick. Now that steam (and London's coal fires) are long gone the weather has had a few years to wash away the grime and they are revealed as red brick.

 

Now the question - when I weather the walls and bridges do I make them black or do I allow some of the red brick to show through? (What ever I do I will be allowing the red brick of the warehouse to show through the grime.)

 

Chaz

Chaz,

Here is a colour shot of a Deltic at Bell Isle with some retaining wall in the background:

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=holloway+railway+bank&FORM=HDRSC2#view=detail&id=0AD84910112D39B57C7D51B25A5D3EF8652A0126&selectedIndex=2

 

It might also be worth flicking through the original version of the Ealing comedy "The Lady Killers" as several scenes were filmed in the same area.

 

Regards,

 

Chris

[raymw]

Hi Chaz,

 

I spent a few minutes poking around on the railway herald galleries - http://railwayherald.com/imagingcentre/ I guess there would be suitable photos there. The amount of dirt would possibly depend on speed/frequency of the steam loco's. I think it may pay to possibly try and photoshop the smoke stains, etc. on some of your photos, before actually attacking the model - at least it may get you into the right ball park, appearance wise.

 

Best wishes,

 

Ray

[auld_boot]

I fastened the indicator panel to the back of retaining wall with two 4mm bolts. The relay board is inside the "box"  so only a 8 wire ribbon cable is needed.

 

 

 

Unfortunately as the indicator panel is an afterthought the T-nuts had to be put in the wall face and are clearly visible.

 

 

The two T-nuts will be hidden behind some piece of equipment, or maybe a couple of bushes.... WTS. (still a little work to do at the base of the retaining wall...)

 

Chaz

 

Not sure if you solved this problem yet but my thought was one of those cast iron plates they used to use to add strength to a wall, only picture I could find of one is half way down this page:   http://www.cwmbran.info/gkn.htm

[chaz]

Chaz,

Here is a colour shot of a Deltic at Bell Isle with some retaining wall in the background:

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=holloway+railway+bank&FORM=HDRSC2#view=detail&id=0AD84910112D39B57C7D51B25A5D3EF8652A0126&selectedIndex=2

 

It might also be worth flicking through the original version of the Ealing comedy "The Lady Killers" as several scenes were filmed in the same area.

 

Regards,

 

Chris

 

Thanks to the Deltic link, Chris. Confirms what I thought about the colour of the walls in that area.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

Not sure if you solved this problem yet but my thought was one of those cast iron plates they used to use to add strength to a wall, only picture I could find of one is half way down this page:   http://www.cwmbran.info/gkn.htm

 

Thanks for the suggestion, I hadn't thought of that. My feeling is that that sort of plate would be placed centrally in a section of wall....

[chaz]

Hi Chaz,

 

I spent a few minutes poking around on the railway herald galleries - http://railwayherald.com/imagingcentre/ I guess there would be suitable photos there. The amount of dirt would possibly depend on speed/frequency of the steam loco's. I think it may pay to possibly try and photoshop the smoke stains, etc. on some of your photos, before actually attacking the model - at least it may get you into the right ball park, appearance wise.

 

Best wishes,

 

Ray

 

No shortage of pictures in various books taken at the London end of the ECML in steam days, Ray, some of which are in colour. I think there is no doubt that the walls and bridges should be black, or nearly so - it's just my reluctance to foul it all up that holds me back. However the section of retaining wall behind the headshunt (the one that has three different sections of arches) which is prominent in those last few photos is detachable - it had to be as it spans a baseboard joint. This will be a guinea pig for some experimentation, just as soon as I put in a few finishing touches (mostly to do with filling or hiding gaps).

 

I am sure you are right about Photoshop being a way to try out the black - but I'm not sure I know how to do this and anyway I already spend too much time sitting at my computer.... I think on balance I would rather give a test section "the treatment" and see how it comes up.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

Yawn.....

Just another of those jobs that doesn't make any difference to the look of Dock Green. I was very aware that adding the front protector plates as well as end plates was making the baseboards considerably heavier. With half an eye on the possible future need to carry them across car parks and maybe up or down stairs I decided to do what I could to lighten the plates.



The photo shows two baseboards with the front plates and one end plate in place. The cuts were made on a Hegner power fretsaw. Good piece of kit. There may be further scope later for a few more holes, but it's important not to weaken the plates.

Chaz

Edited June 3, 2013 by chaz

[chaz]

 

Above is snap of a test piece for the grime on the red brick. Looks about right to me, almost black but still showing hints of red.

 

 

I did hide one of the baseboard joins (and the consequent gap in the post and wire fence) behind a corrugated iron fence but I can hardly pull that trick twice and anyway this section of fence is so close to the edge. So I have just left the wires a little short. In fact the ploy can hardly be seen so I think I will live with it. I had considered putting a couple of big shrubs in front of and on either side of the join but that doesn't look practical in that very thin strip. So unless anyone has a helpful suggestion it will stay as it is....

 

Chaz