RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted June 16, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 16, 2015 A bit of progress with the wall... I have glued on some strips of buff card to represent sills and lintels but the extra thickness will cause a problem with the escape. The brackets need a level surface. Adding a few extra strips of the card has produced a level surface for the brackets. It's going to be a challenge fitting the brick sheets around all these. The extra strips do look a bit unlikely but will make sense when the escape is fitted. Of course they have covered the holes but these can be drilled through from the back once the PVA has dried. Chaz Could you have added a brass packer (s) to the bracket? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted June 16, 2015 Author Share Posted June 16, 2015 Could you have added a brass packer (s) to the bracket? Yes, but soldering that thickness of brass to the bracket would probably have caused the bracket to disintegrate - it would have needed too much heat. Another solution would have been to cut away the stone where the brackets go which would not have looked right. Given that I wanted the "stone" to be a bit thicker than the brick I think the extra strips for the brackets will look the neatest solution. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted June 16, 2015 Author Share Posted June 16, 2015 I have just drilled the holes through from the back and fitted the escape on the wall... ...with the extra thickness to pass through the fixing wires are just long enough for a washer plate to be added when the time comes to fix it permanently to the wall. The small pieces of card look quite natural with the brasswork installed. I think it all looks good in position and I am encouraged to get on with it. Although there is quite of lot of work involved in fitting the brick in and around what's there (a lot of careful measuring, cutting and adjusting) it should be straightforward now to finish this view-blocker. Chaz 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted June 16, 2015 Author Share Posted June 16, 2015 (edited) I transferred (geddit?) my attentions to the tube wagon this afternoon... ...and ended up quite twitchy. I always find putting inscriptions on wagons the most fiddly part, prodding transfers into position with a fine paint brush or a cocktail stick. This job was particularly fraught - SHOCK HORROR - no "WB 19' 0"" transfer on my Fox transfer sheet! So I made it up with a "WB12' 0"" cut up and a "6" stolen from a WB17' 6"" and inverted for a "9". After that the other end seemed easy, although the number is made up from three separate pieces - an "E", the "301" and the "583" and I had run out of "E"s on the region letters sheet - so I "borrowed" them from the wagon code names sheet. I will give this a day or two for the transfers to harden (dry?) off and then give it a spray of Dullcote. As usual the camera makes my efforts look incompetent. Chaz Edited June 16, 2015 by chaz 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) Some progress... The cleanest brickwork on Dock Green.....but not for long. edit - PS - some chance that this might be ready for the show in New Milton. The last big job will be the railings - drilling 1mm square angle will be a chore. Each upright will require two (maybe three) accurate holes. I feel a drilling jig is needed. Edited June 21, 2015 by chaz 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr2 Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 You are pre-supposing intelligence on the part of pre-H & S managers Barnaby! But, yes, something will, but probably not a spirit store A lot changed after the Bradford football ground fire in 1985. Prior to this they used to store stationery and waste cardboard boxes in the basement well of the main internal fire escape in the large government building I worked at at the time.... Just catching up with the thread Chaz, & I have to say the work you've done on your fire escape is just superb! Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) A lot changed after the Bradford football ground fire in 1985. Prior to this they used to store stationery and waste cardboard boxes in the basement well of the main internal fire escape in the large government building I worked at at the time.... Just catching up with the thread Chaz, & I have to say the work you've done on your fire escape is just superb! Keith Thanks Keith. With a project like the escape I find that if I just get on with it I find ways to solve the tricky bits. It can look rather daunting when faced with a brass fret with this number of parts. Edited June 21, 2015 by chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted June 21, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 21, 2015 All the handrail stanchions I ever fitted were either 1" tube or angle iron usually 3" but sometimes 2". the tube stanchions had forged sections for fitting to the boundary frame, a central rail (where fitted) and a top. These were made for us by the Smith's section in South Yard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 All the handrail stanchions I ever fitted were either 1" tube or angle iron usually 3" but sometimes 2". the tube stanchions had forged sections for fitting to the boundary frame, a central rail (where fitted) and a top. These were made for us by the Smith's section in South Yard. Thanks for that info'. Just confirms me in my opinion that tubular stanchions would be a lot of work. 1" tube scales out to 0.6mm - 1mm tube or rod would be an acceptable compromise. Drilling 1mm tube for the rails would not be impossible but would require great care - a drilling jig essential. 3" angle sounds good - scales to 1.8mm. 2mm angle will probably look oversize but 1.5mm would answer. Eileen's Emporium list LO1515D brass 1.5 x 1.5mm angle at £1.80 for 250mm. I will need to do a drawing to plan how much of this I will need. It's going to be expensive I think. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I did buy some milled brass angle from Metalsmith - like many, I think he's stopping, so I don't know if they're still doing metal or just the turntables. He had long lengths - 400 or 500mm from memory The wall looks great. - looking forward to seeing everything come together. Will you have a lamp over it - might want to put the wires in before going much further? Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted June 21, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 21, 2015 Thanks for that info'. Just confirms me in my opinion that tubular stanchions would be a lot of work. 1" tube scales out to 0.6mm - 1mm tube or rod would be an acceptable compromise. Drilling 1mm tube for the rails would not be impossible but would require great care - a drilling jig essential. 3" angle sounds good - scales to 1.8mm. 2mm angle will probably look oversize but 1.5mm would answer. Eileen's Emporium list LO1515D brass 1.5 x 1.5mm angle at £1.80 for 250mm. I will need to do a drawing to plan how much of this I will need. It's going to be expensive I think. Chaz The forged lump was usually between about 2 1/2 " and 3" in diameter with 1" tube used for the rails. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 The forged lump was usually between about 2 1/2 " and 3" in diameter with 1" tube used for the rails. Thanks for that - makes sense - but I still think that the angle sounds the easier option. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 I did some cutting and fitting of the painted brick sheet this afternoon. Here is one of the pieces cut ready to fit around one of those pieces of "stonework" against which a bracket fits... For marking out the pieces I found a scriber proved a better tool leaving a white scratch in the paint whereas a pencil mark was really hard to see. Once the slot was made in this piece it was tried in place and needle files used to get a good fit. I glued the plastic brick sheet pieces in place with UHU. The only disadvantage of this glue is its tendency to string - you just need to be very disciplined when using it to avoid any strings marking the front, painted surface. In the past I might have stuck the stonework on top of the brick rather than the more difficult job of fitting the brick around it. However sticking stuff on top the brick always looks like what it is - cutting the brick to fit accurately around looks far more convincing IMHO. I often use pieces which are a bit oversize, trimming them once they are glued in place. A block of wood held firmly inside the window opening stops pressure on the scapel blade from pushing the plastic sheet off the card structure while it is trimmed. Here's how far I have got after three hours work this afternoon. The raw white edges of the cut sheet will be touched in with a fine paintbrush once all the brickwork is done. I still have the trickiest bits, the areas around the door openings, to do. These will be best in one piece without joins, which always seem to show - this will be a challenge to get a good fit without any gaps. Chaz 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Metalsmiths are still around the turntables etc will be under Midland Carriage and Wagon I think, and the metal business was or is being taken over as Metalsmiths. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 I did buy some milled brass angle from Metalsmith - like many, I think he's stopping, so I don't know if they're still doing metal or just the turntables. He had long lengths - 400 or 500mm from memory The wall looks great. - looking forward to seeing everything come together. Will you have a lamp over it - might want to put the wires in before going much further? Best Simon Simon, thanks for the reference but there is no advantage to buying the angle in long lengths as I will be cutting it into very short pieces for the uprights - the rails will be NS wire. There is no question of fitting working lamps to the wall. Apart from those in the goods office at the other end of the layout there won't be any working lights on Dock Green. I am still undecided as to whether I will fit non-working emergency lighting - this will depend on whether I can find or make an easy-to-represent light fitting of the right period. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daifly Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) The last big job will be the railings - drilling 1mm square angle will be a chore. Each upright will require two (maybe three) accurate holes. I feel a drilling jig is needed. Had you considered these? http://www.westbourne-model.co.uk/acatalog/Aero-Naut--Model-Boat-Fittings-Stanchions.html They are not cheap but do look the part! Scroll down for the 2- and 3-hole types. Dave Edited June 22, 2015 by daifly Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 good link, Dave thx Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted June 22, 2015 Author Share Posted June 22, 2015 Had you considered these? http://www.westbourne-model.co.uk/acatalog/Aero-Naut--Model-Boat-Fittings-Stanchions.html They are not cheap but do look the part! Scroll down for the 2- and 3-hole types. Dave Interesting link Dave, thanks. I think the main problem using these will be the angle of the rails. Some of the stanchions would be mounted on the sides of the flights where the rails will be at a 45 degree angle. Whether the holes in these would allow that angle I don't know but I doubt it - I'm confident that I can use a cutting broach to ease the holes in a piece of angle so that the wires will go through at 45. The other factor counting against their use is the shape at the base. They are clearly intended to be fitted into a hole (the deck of a ship) whereas on the fire escape they must be fastened on the outside of the framework. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeatherKay Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 I'm sure I've seen handrails and stanchions where the rail comes out horizontally and then bends up to the angle of the staircase. Would that be easier than fitting stanchions right at the base/top of each case? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted June 22, 2015 Author Share Posted June 22, 2015 I'm sure I've seen handrails and stanchions where the rail comes out horizontally and then bends up to the angle of the staircase. Would that be easier than fitting stanchions right at the base/top of each case? Yes Heather I am sure you are right. The flights have 11 treads and are about 65mm long (measured along the 45deg' angle) so I think will need a support half way down - YES? - and that mid-way stanchion will need holes at 45. Sorry folks if it looks like I am being very negative - I did look carefully at the stanchions linked to in Dave's posting. I would definitely have to modify the bases - that collar would have to be removed and a flat filed on the side so that I could solder them to the sides of the frames. This feels like more work (and trickier) than making stanchions from angle. I will buy a pack of the stanchions and have a look at them to see if they will answer before I order up the angle. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 I did design some banisters for Chaz including Newel posts and Balusters to be 3D printed and cast in brass, but they would not of been cheap so Chaz said he would make his own and going by how he did with his steps they should look very good. The use of some brass "L" and some rod will do the job very well. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted June 22, 2015 Author Share Posted June 22, 2015 Some maths. The banisters on our house stairs are 37 inches tall - which scales to 21.6mm in 7mm/1ft - it seems reasonable to use this figure - unless anyone can provide reference to a different figure based on a fire escape contemporary with Dock Green I will need to add 4mm for the part of the stanchion which will be fixed to the side frames of the escape - so say 25mm. I have decided on two rails as adequate for a fire escape. I did a quick audit suggests that I will need twenty stanchions for the outside face - so the price of the ones from Westbourne Models would not be prohibitive. Their Stanchion - Aero-Naut/ EN5602/20 which is quoted as 20mm tall might well be worth investigating. I assume that the 20mm refers to the height once fitted and does not include the base part. That's the dimension that interests a modeller - but of course I could be wrong Buying a pack of 10 of these for £6.84 is a reasonable risk - should they prove unsuitable for the fire escape they can go into stock and I may find a use for them on the FVRR - I have some thoughts on a car ferry....(that's railroad car, not automobile!) Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Handrails on stairs are nominally 900mm vertically off the front edge of the tread. Outside rails should be 1100mm high. So I would presume the stairs would be the same. There is quite often an additional handrail at 900mm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adams442T Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 A bit belated for your project I fear, but maybe useful for weathering for you. Two shots (pre-renovation) of the fire escape at the Masson Mills in Derbyshire. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted June 22, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 22, 2015 Chaz. I would suggest that if you go with the manufactured stanchions you could use short lengths of angle, with one leg on the horizontal at the top. The biggest thing against using these is as you have already pointed out is the angle right on the stairs. When I was working on ships there were two methods used, the favourite was to use /make short ones square to the riser and rails. The other method was to fit a stanchion at the top and bottom landing with a bit of tube bent to the angle required for the handrail to run parallel with the riser. A bit of string was then passed through the tubes to give a rough indication of the angle at which the holes needed to be drilled through the forging so. A line was drawn on the forging with a magic marker, all in all a right pain. We usually opted for angle if we could get away with it. SS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now