Dock Green

[N15class]

The setts look good now, with colour and weaher they will be superb.

[chaz]

The setts look good now, with colour and weaher they will be superb.

 

Thanks Peter, I need all the encouragement I can get for this most tedious of jobs....

[chaz]

A whole day's work and I have ended up with quite a few setts scribed up and a numb thumb.....

 

 

....although the area pictured is less than a tenth of the area to be dealt with. I could cut down the amount to be done by putting in another building....tempting. The brass screw is pulling down a warped corner where the underlying foam board has pulled away from the baseboard. It will be covered with a little more DAS.

 

Chaz

Edited November 3, 2012 by chaz

[TimC]

Very nice - well worth the effort!

[chaz]

Thanks to you both, Tim and John. I will try to finish the setts this coming week. This is certainly possible - if only I can keep at it. WTS.

 

Chaz

 

PS I have discovered that DAS has a tendency to crack upon drying - BUT only if it is not sufficiently compressed when applied. My usual technique of thumbing it down firmly on top of a patch of wet PVA seems to prevent any cracking but cracks have appeared at the edge of an applied section where I have stopped for the day. Presumably this is because I have not compressed the very edge sufficiently. Not a big problem - I remove any loose bits and fill the remaining cracks with the next lot to be applied.

Edited November 4, 2012 by chaz

[bcnPete]

No one could accuse you of 'cobbling' that together Great work and the time taken pays dividends on the end result.

 

It even makes ballasting look less tedious as a task

Edited November 4, 2012 by bcnPete

[chaz]

No one could accuse you of 'cobbling' that together Great work and the time taken pays dividends on the end result.

 

It even makes ballasting look less tedious as a task

 

Ballasting, pah! Just doesn't compare. But thanks for the appreciative comment Pete.

[chaz]

Thought I would just post a few photos showing my method of scratching in the setts....

(sorry about the strange variations in colour balance - my camera doesn't cope very well with the energy-saving bulb in the spotlight I've been using)

 

First picture shows the repair over that brass screw....

 

 

I found that you can add more DAS directly to some that has already dried completely and it sticks very well with no tendency to come away. This patch is quite thin in places but I was able to cut the setts into it without any problems.

 

The next picture shows an area marked out with a scriber. I am finding it best to tackle smallish areas at a time (how would you eat an elephant?).

 

 

The last picture of this posting shows the same area worked on and largely finished and the next small area partly marked out.

 

 

I found that if I wanted to avoid it looking like I had scratched a grid into the surface (which, of course, I have) I had to "draw" around each individual sett a couple of times with the scriber. This knocks off some of the corners making the effect look more convincing.

Occasionally (especially if I press too hard with the scriber) the sett will come away, snapping off and leaving a gap. This has happened in the row next to the rail. I will pop a little extra DAS into the hole and scribe it up again.

 

Tedious doesn't begin to describe this job......

 

Chaz

Edited November 4, 2012 by chaz

[Siberian Snooper]

Hi Chaz

 

It might be tedious and boring but the end result will make it all worth while in the end, what you have produced so far is excellent. I imagine that a never off the boil kettle would help in such circumstances or a few cans of beer.

 

Cheers SS

[chaz]

Hi Chaz

 

It might be tedious and boring but the end result will make it all worth while in the end, what you have produced so far is excellent. I imagine that a never off the boil kettle would help in such circumstances or a few cans of beer.

 

Cheers SS

 

No might be about it SS! And yes I am drinking a lot of tea whilst doing this work.

 

I also have music playing more or less constantly - yesterday it was Mahler's symphonies. #3, #4, & #5 were a welcome distraction - today I have enjoyed the last six Mozart symphonies - magic stuff.

 

I did find a better and faster method of cutting the sett pattern - I still mark out with a scriber but then switch to a needle file to make the cuts.

 

 

I use the type of needle file that has a curved face on both sides, making sure that the one chosen still has a pointed end. Because this has cutting teeth right down the taper, unlike the scriber (which is smooth sided and only cuts at the point) it makes the work go much faster. It also seems less likely to cause a sett to break out, as less pressure is needed.

 

This second photo shows progress made today.

 

 

Sorry that it's quite hard to see what I've done, it's tricky to photograph the white DAS surface. The paint will reveal the pattern nicely. One of tomorrow's tasks must be to add the next few areas of DAS, including the the one between the rails (in the four-foot!).

 

Chaz

Edited November 6, 2012 by chaz

[chaz]

Amazing progress on this layout - everytime I check, there is something new...and often!

 

Very inspiring...

 

No amazing progress this week I'm afraid. Nothing new either. Just acres and acres of stone setts (a load of old cobbles!). Wish I could say that the work was inspiring, but it's turned into one of those long, plod through it, jobs. Next post will probably be when the setts are finished and painted. I just hope it looks good enough to justify the time I'm spending on it....

[chaz]

Well, the setts are not finished yet but I thought I would post some more technique pics.

When adding DAS in thumb-friendly dollops you may see this effect....

 

 

A stubborn gap shows between two adjacent dollops. It doesn't seem to matter how much you smooth the top surface the gap may well keep showing as a thin line. If you leave it untreated when the DAS dries you are likely to see a crack develop. The clay contains fibres which do stop cracks forming but they don't cross this gap. So to lock the two sides together take your wooden modelling tool and criss-cross the line.

 

 

Now when you smooth the top surface the line will have gone and when the DAS dries it will not crack.

Last photo of my DAS application techniques shows how I get the top surface reasonably level.

 

 

A steel rule is pressed into the DAS until it rests on the top of the rails on either side. High points will be obvious as grooves in the surface. Low points can be seen by sliding the rule sideways and watching for gaps. If I were not working between two lines of metals I would pin down two lengths of wood battens to get the same facility.

 

You are probably not that excited by snaps of DAS (unless you are in the throes of a DAS job yourself!) so here's a more exciting picture....

 

 

The BR standard brake van was built from the excellent Connoisseur etched brass kit. It includes a fair amount of white-metal (the duckets, "concrete" platform weights, axleguards etc) so doesn't need any additional weighting. I soldered the kit together, the only glue being used to attach the glazing for the windows. The only deviation from the kit I made was to discard the white-metal label clips (which I thought oversize) and cut some little brass rectangles. This picture shows how discrete the Dingham auto-couplers are.

What a pity Peco redesigned their 7mm points with that huge plastic box over the tie-bar! I wish I had cut this away before the the track was laid. And the red-brick section of the retaining wall? It's waiting for the last bridge which one of the Dock Green team is making (he has already made a similar bridge in 4mm).

 

Now I really must get back to scribing up setts (yawn)....

 

Chaz

Edited November 10, 2012 by chaz

[David Siddall]

 

...BR standard brake van was built from the excellent Connoisseur etched brass kit. It includes a fair amount of white-metal (the duckets, "concrete" platform weights, axleguards etc) so doesn't need any additional weighting. I soldered the kit together, the only glue being used to attach the glazing for the windows. The only deviation from the kit I made was to discard the white-metal label clips (which I thought oversize) and cut some little brass rectangles. This picture shows how discrete the Dingham auto-couplers are.

 

What a pity Peco redesigned their 7mm points with that huge plastic box over the tie-bar! I wish I had cut this away before the the track was laid.

 

Chaz

 

Speaking as someone who's been doing battle with a Slaters plastic kit of same for what seems like several years I can only but mutter my admiration through lightly clenched teeth ...and wonder why I didn't go for the Connoisseur version? Ah yes, I remember why... my innate inability to solder anything more complex than a power feed. Nice work Chaz!

 

And that visually intrusive box in whatever form it appears (and the two-part blades when you don't want to model 'heel switches') are the reason I seem to have spent even longer learning how to build my own turnouts!

 

Happy cobbling...

 

David

 

PS: An improved version of the 'Links coupler' for 7-mil, which IMO are even more discrete than Dinghams are due to be available again in the not to distant future. Just mentioned in passing... (hash tag) doing whatever I can to support Richard Syms who's patiently and diligently working to reintroduce them :-)

Edited November 11, 2012 by David Siddall

[chaz]

Speaking as someone who's been doing battle with a Slaters plastic kit of same for what seems like several years I can only but mutter my admiration through lightly clenched teeth ...and wonder why I didn't go for the Connoisseur version? Ah yes, I remember why... my innate inability to solder anything more complex than a power feed. Nice work Chaz!

 

And that visually intrusive box in whatever form it appears (and the two-part blades when you don't want to model 'heel switches') are the reason I seem to have spent even longer learning how to build my own turnouts!

 

David

 

Thanks for the comments David. I have built the Slater's plastic kit for the BR standard brake van as well as Jim McGowan's etched brass one. If I needed another van there would be no contest - the brass kit wins hands down - much easier to assemble and more robust when finished. Soldering is easy once you have "the knack" and I would certainly advise anyone who thinks they can't to have a go. Probably the best way to start is to sit down with someone who has the skills and build something like a simple wagon kit with their help. Etched brass is much more forgiving than plastic - If you go wrong you just unsolder, clean up and try again.

 

Everytime I see the Peco points in a photograph I wince (looking at the actual layout I find the boxes less obvious). I wonder if anything can be done with them in situ. With the points glued down and ballasted it might be possible to cut the box away and make good the remains of the sleepers. Anyone tried this?

[3 link]

 

Everytime I see the Peco points in a photograph I wince (looking at the actual layout I find the boxes less obvious). I wonder if anything can be done with them in situ. With the points glued down and ballasted it might be possible to cut the box away and make good the remains of the sleepers. Anyone tried this?

 

I must agree they do look unsightly I suppose they could be disguised as a facing point lock cover !! I do not know if anyone has tried to cut the box away but with care I cannot see it being a big deal, and then possibily use a strip of copper paxolin sleeper to make a new tie bar.

 

ATB,

 

Martyn.

[chaz]

I must agree they do look unsightly I suppose they could be disguised as a facing point lock cover !! I do not know if anyone has tried to cut the box away but with care I cannot see it being a big deal, and then possibily use a strip of copper paxolin sleeper to make a new tie bar.

 

ATB,

 

Martyn.

 

I'm thinking on similar lines Martyn, except that I would hope to leave the tie-bar intact and just infill plastic to repair whatever is left of the sleepers. I'm tempted to have a go - one of the points on Dock Green is a bit "iffy" - if I attack that one first then if I wreck it I will be replacing a dodgy one anyway.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

Speaking as someone who's been doing battle with a Slaters plastic kit of same for what seems like several years I can only but mutter my admiration through lightly clenched teeth ...and wonder why I didn't go for the Connoisseur version? Ah yes, I remember why... my innate inability to solder anything more complex than a power feed.

 

David

 

Thought you might like this picture, David....

 

 

It's a Connoisseur kit for a BR standard brake van - but modified to make an ex-LNER Green Arrow van. You might be able to spot some of the differences.

Most of this was assembled with a 25 watt iron, Carr's green label flux and 145 degree solder. The white metal duckets were soldered with a temperature controlled iron set to 165 degrees and some 70 degree solder. I did straighten that wonky lamp iron before I painted the van!

 

For me there's no contest - a good etched brass kit is much nicer to work with than a plastic one....

 

Chaz

[3 link]

I'm thinking on similar lines Martyn, except that I would hope to leave the tie-bar intact and just infill plastic to repair whatever is left of the sleepers. I'm tempted to have a go - one of the points on Dock Green is a bit "iffy" - if I attack that one first then if I wreck it I will be replacing a dodgy one anyway.

 

Chaz

 

Hi Chaz,

 

I know it's easy for me to say but I would go for it, and like you say you can always replace it should the worse happen.

 

Looking at your modelling skills why do you not have a go at building your own, I find it very enjoyable and easy to learn, and I'm sure it would be easy to join up to the existing trackwork ( and it looks better ).

 

ATB,

 

Martyn.

[chaz]

Hi Chaz,

 

I know it's easy for me to say but I would go for it, and like you say you can always replace it should the worse happen.

 

Looking at your modelling skills why do you not have a go at building your own, I find it very enjoyable and easy to learn, and I'm sure it would be easy to join up to the existing trackwork ( and it looks better ).

 

ATB,

 

Martyn.

 

why do you not have a go at building your own (points)? Time, Martyn. And also I don't want to.

 

I am building all the track on my ON30 American NG layout, using timber ties and spikes for the plain track and jig-building turnouts with code 83 soldered to PCB ties. But Dock Green has taken about two years to build - I think building the points as well would have added considerably to that. There are other modelling jobs I would rather do.

 

Chaz

[3 link]

why do you not have a go at building your own (points)? Time, Martyn. And also I don't want to.

 

I am building all the track on my ON30 American NG layout, using timber ties and spikes for the plain track and jig-building turnouts with code 83 soldered to PCB ties. But Dock Green has taken about two years to build - I think building the points as well would have added considerably to that. There are other modelling jobs I would rather do.

 

Chaz

 

Fair comment , and I did not realise you were into oON30 as well.

 

Martyn.

[David Siddall]

Thought you might like this picture, David....

 

It's a Connoisseur kit for a BR standard brake van - but modified to make an ex-LNER Green Arrow van. You might be able to spot some of the differences.

Most of this was assembled with a 25 watt iron, Carr's green label flux and 145 degree solder. The white metal duckets were soldered with a temperature controlled iron set to 165 degrees and some 70 degree solder. I did straighten that wonky lamp iron before I painted the van!

 

For me there's no contest - a good etched brass kit is much nicer to work with than a plastic one....

 

Chaz

 

Oh I do like it Chaz, believe me I do! It's just clear from said photo that you are a skilled modeller with several soldering irons who knows exactly what he's doing. I on the other hand am an enthusiastic bodger with just one - the sum of my technical knowledge of the process is that the iron gets hot at one end which makes the solder go runny. Shortly after which I usually smell singeing flesh and a joint may or may not happen ;-)

 

There is one thing however about Peco points, lumpy bits and two-part blades or no... I suspect they're pretty reliable. I've just powered my Hymek through my first hand-built turnout for the first time and it's clear there's either a back-to-back issue with my example (wagons pass through perfectly) or I've got something wrong in the gauging department! BTW, if anyone's got any bright ideas please stick 'em on my thread, not Chaz's.

 

David

Edited November 11, 2012 by David Siddall

[chaz]

....It's just clear from said photo that you are a skilled modeller with several soldering irons who knows exactly what he's doing. I on the other hand am an enthusiastic bodger with just one - the sum of my technical knowledge of the process is that the iron gets hot at one end which makes the solder go runny. Shortly after which I usually smell singeing flesh and a joint may or may not happen ;-)

David

 

Difficult to say this without sounding like a teacher (Cos' I am a retired teacher) but the important word in the above is "enthusiastic" - that will carry you a long way. If I am a skilled modeller I have to say that what skills I have are largely self-taught. I started out not being able to do much - I used to invent what I thought of as work-arounds, to make up for my lack of skill. After a while it dawned on me that what I had done was acquire the necessary skills, or at least my version of them. So get soldering, make your mistakes. Read the mags, talk to demonstrators at shows. Find ways to make your soldered joints without singeing too many fingers. Go on, have a go!

 

Chaz

[chaz]

Fair comment , and I did not realise you were into oON30 as well.

 

Martyn.

 

Yes, but the Furness Valley Railroad is on hold until the new year, when I hope the bulk of the work on Dock Green will be done. WTS

 

Chaz

Edited November 11, 2012 by chaz

[chaz]

Just found this snap of the two brake vans that were both built from Connoisseur brass kits....

 

 

The van on the right was built as per the instructions - the one on the left was modified to portray the earlier LNER van. Both of the prototype vans would have been built at Faverdale (Darlington) so the progression would have been easy. The LNER van may well hold the record for the number of handrails - any advance on 30?

 

Since I built it I have been made aware that I made a couple of errors with the LNER van (some people just have to spoil things!) but you will have to be a real LNER wagon buff to spot 'em. Me, I'm happy with the van as it is - I really don't want to spoil the paint correcting it.

 

Chaz

Edited November 11, 2012 by chaz

[PatB]

Soldering is definitely worth having a go at, because it's a hugely useful skill to have in your repertoire and also because, when you do get it right and the solder flashes neatly along that seam in an almost magical fashion, it's tremendously satisfying.

 

My manual skills are somewhat......er......basic. However, having read Jim McGeown's various booklets which can be downloaded from Connoisseur's website, I decided that etched brass looked pretty doable and bought a couple of Jim's wagon kits, a cheap 80W soldering iron (probably overkill, but the general consensus seems to be that more heat than you need is better than less), a roll of 145 solder and a jar of suitable flux. Following Jim's comprehensive instructions everything went together fine. Whilst I wouldn't make any claims to perfection for my first efforts, they are far from scrap and it's amazing what a coat of etch primer will hide . I was sufficiently encouraged that I'm now building one of Jim's LNER Y7s and looking with great interest at Agenoria's new Manning Wardle 0-4-2T as another suitable power unit for a freelance northern light railway.

 

For me, the great thing about etched brass is that it is practically impossible to destroy most of the kit components. I'm a messy git and, when working with plastic and solvents, tend to apply obvious and permanent fingerprints to every finely detailed surface. Great for providing future owners with a means of identifying the model's builder but less good for realism. With brass, that's just not going to happen.

 

I do still have difficulty soldering on whitemetal parts without melting bits of them (no, I wasn't using the 80W at full heat) so Araldite still plays a role. However, I am improving in this regard, especially having become sufficiently enthusiastic about this construction method that I've sprung for a basic Hakko soldering station from DCC Concepts. Not essential at all, but awfully nice to use.