chaz Posted November 30, 2012 Author Share Posted November 30, 2012 Chaz I've followed this latest development with interest as I would also like to get rid of the unsightly box. Your remedy is very impressive and I will certainly give it a try. Like you, I will have to make the changes in situ as the points are well set in lots of 'yard gunge'! Stephen Go for it, Stephen!!! When you do it try to forget the price of a Peco point, you need steady hands. In particular be very careful around the tie bar. Chaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted November 30, 2012 Author Share Posted November 30, 2012 If you were able to remove this piece and backfill with ballast the ruse would be even more complete. Now why didn't I think of that! Thank you Adrian - it shall be done! A quick slice with a chisel with the blades over to the side to be cut is all that's needed. In due course I will be adding a (cosmetic) hand-throw lever (might find some etched ones at Reading tomorrow?) Chaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 1, 2012 Author Share Posted December 1, 2012 If you are going to follow Adrian's suggestion and trim off the extensions to the tie-bar that project beyond the stock rail don't overdo it! There is a rib moulded on the top of the bar which slides against the underside of the stock rail and, I presume, stops the blades from lifting. Move the blades away from the side you are going to cut and then slice through just outside the stock rail. Put a thin strip of packing under the tie-bar before you slice through to prevent any damage. This does mean that you will see a short piece of plastic tie bar projecting beyond when the blades move to that side but it's still a worthwhile improvement. When you ballast round the point leave just enough of a gap for the projection to move into. Chaz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Siddall Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 (edited) I used three short pieces of Peco Individulay plastic point timbering to replace the missing sections. Unfortunately I haven't managed to make the joints invisible - the point is laid on cork, which has militated against getting a totally level "bodge". However I think the result compares favourably with Peco's nastiness in this area..... Nicely done sir and yes it does! I'd suggest that those joints are far less visible than you imagine. Viewers will be far more taken with the overall impression than such a tiny detail - indeed I wouldn't even have spotted anything if you hadn't mentioned it (...I was just about to type 'pointed it out' but I've inflicted enough dire puns on your thread already ;-) David Edited December 1, 2012 by David Siddall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 1, 2012 Author Share Posted December 1, 2012 (edited) Nicely done sir and yes it does! I'd suggest that those joints are far less visible than you imagine. Viewers will be far more taken with the overall impression than such a tiny detail - indeed I wouldn't even have spotted anything if you hadn't mentioned it (...I was just about to type 'pointed it out' but I've inflicted enough dire puns on your thread already ;-) David Yes, David, I think you are right. Of course the one person who will always notice those joints, along with every other error and compromise is..........? The other thing to bear in mind is that photographs always make errors show up rather well (badly?). Edited December 3, 2012 by chaz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 3, 2012 Author Share Posted December 3, 2012 ....cosmetic) hand-throw lever (might find some etched ones at Reading tomorrow?) Chaz I did indeed find some at Reading. Phil, of Hobby Holidays, had some by Ambis that look as though they will serve very well - will have to be careful with them though - thin etched brass levers sticking up near each point will be a bit vulnerable. I will probably do what I have done in the past with signal ladders - "plate" them on both sides with 188 solder - stiffens them up a little (188 because it flows nicely to a thin even film). Not much interesting progress on Dock Green to report - lots of little touches - missing bits of brickwork etc. Next siginificant item to be added will be the second road bridge. The piers for this are imminent, I'm told......WTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc smith Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 (edited) .....I wish I had the motivation to make my own points (I certainly wouldn't bother to make plain track - the Peco stuff looks fine to me) but it was a compromise I felt I had to make for time reasons. I'm not sure I would characterise what I'm doing as an "extensive modification" David - being entirely superficial..... Chaz Chaz, many of us simply don't have the time to do everything.... especially those of us who (are mad enough to) model in several scales.... What you have done looks very good It's an improvement over the standard Peco point and that's no bad thing In fact, I like what you've done so much, I'll try it myself on the next project Thanks for posting Enjoying the thread Marc Edited December 4, 2012 by marc smith 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 4, 2012 Author Share Posted December 4, 2012 (edited) Chaz, many of us simply don't have the time to do everything.... especially those of us who (are mad enough to) model in several scales.... What you have done looks very good It's an improvement over the standard Peco point and that's no bad thing In fact, I like what you've done so much, I'll try it myself on the next project Thanks for posting Enjoying the thread Marc Thanks for your comments Marc. You will appreciate, if you have read my postings above, that I used this method because the track was already fastened down. Dock Green was originally a cooperative effort and my partner in crime laid the track. He dropped out leaving me to go solo. It was only when I started to take photographs of the layout that I realised that I didn't like the "coffin" in the four foot on the Peco points. If you are going to modify Peco points for a new project there is a method which I have seen on the net - sorry I can't remember where - which involves cutting away the three sleepers and the "coffin" completely and replacing them with PCB sleepers and cast brass chairs. A Google search might turn up this alternative (I believe the modeller concerned is Australian). Whether it's a better method I can't say but it's obviously not available if the point is already installed. Chaz Edited December 4, 2012 by chaz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyDuty Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Please - if anyone finds the webpage mentioned by Chaz, post the link! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 Ken, I did spend some time with Google and various word combinations but couldn't find it again - but I'm fairly sure I remember seeing a photo of a modified 7mm Peco point. Chaz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meil Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 The problem with the Peco turnouts is the end of the switch rails dangling in space rather than supported on a slide chair. Very toy like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 The problem with the Peco turnouts is the end of the switch rails dangling in space rather than supported on a slide chair. Very toy like. "The problem with the Peco turnouts" - how long have you got? Using them for Dock Green was always going to involve a huge dollop of compromise. By cutting away the "coffin" in the four foot I have only removed the most obvious fault. The huge flangeways, the jointed switch rails etc etc remain. I chose to use these points because I wanted to be able to finish the layout within a couple of years. The overall impression is more important to me than relatively small defects like unsupported switch rails. However I have nothing but admiration for those people who eliminate all these compromises by building their own track. Chaz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 (edited) A friend, Peter, is building a second road bridge for Dock Green. Some time ago he built a 4mm model based on the Empress Road bridge at Loughborough (GCR). He is now tackling the same prototype in 7mm. This morning he brought it over for a trial fit.... As you can see the bridge spans the yard between the canal and the goods platform. There may well be a separate footbridge adjacent to this one (as there were on several bridges on the ECML at the southern end - the Twentieth Mile Bridge at WGC springs to mind) in due course. The bridge is intentionally quite narrow and there is no pavement or footpath. Right from the start I wanted to divide the layout up into a number of smaller scenes - overbridges provide a realistic way of doing this. Chaz Edited December 5, 2012 by chaz 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 "The problem with the Peco turnouts" Atleast they have chairs ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 Atleast they have chairs ... Quite so, Jack. And if it appears that all I want to do is to slag off Peco - well I am using their points after all! The point I was making (sorry!) is that although they are not perfect they are an acceptable compromise for anyone, like myself, who hasn't got either the time, the skill or the inclination to make their own. And if they can be improved cosmetically, why not? Chaz 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted December 5, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 5, 2012 Chaz this layout is built and if you can improve the look of the turnouts why not? However perhaps for your next layout you might like to try a turnout or two. If you add in the time taken to make the improvements the time spent building turnouts may not seem so bad. Personall I enjoy making track and find it a lot easier than building locos each to their own I suppose. Points as bought or points modified this is a good layout either way and I for one would be proud of it. Don 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 (edited) Chaz this layout is built and if you can improve the look of the turnouts why not? However perhaps for your next layout you might like to try a turnout or two. If you add in the time taken to make the improvements the time spent building turnouts may not seem so bad. Personall I enjoy making track and find it a lot easier than building locos each to their own I suppose. Points as bought or points modified this is a good layout either way and I for one would be proud of it. Don "perhaps for your next layout you might like to try a turnout or two" Nice idea, Don. In fact my next layout (strictly non portable I'm afraid) is already started. It's an essay into the world of American On30 and all the track, including the switches (it is American!) are hand-laid. Wooden ties and spikes! Jig built turnouts. I've had to put it on hold for the last nine months as I concentrated on Dock Green but in due course I will resume as rails proceed up the Furness Valley..... Chaz PS Thanks Don and, yes, I am proud of it! Edited December 5, 2012 by chaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 12, 2012 Author Share Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) Peter, who is building the second road bridge, came round today and we spent a few hours working on it. I built the sloping butresses, one of which features in the first photo while he worked on the span. There is still a lot to do, including the piers that sit on top of the butresses at each end and all the detail work on the girders. The brass fittings in front of the pier are the locating pins. These will be glued into the false floor before the camberred road surface is added and will drop into holes in the top of the front and centre piers to locate the spans accurately. We want the spans to be removeable. This bridge is going to be a really nice feature for the layout. It is based on the one at Loughborough which crosses what was the throat of the station and is now part of the engine yard. Below are three photos which Peter took to research the model. As you can see the bridge has metal plate girder spans with brick parapet walls. We have taken a few liberties with the bridge to make it fit the site on Dock Green, but have retained the main features of the design. On the left, behind the signal cabin, you can see the pier that sits on top of the sloping butress. We have no idea who the "yoof" was, dangling his feet over the bridge. It would be quite a fall.... The view above is from the other side and shows some nice detail work. The bridge is not particularly special, bridges like it are commonplace, just right for Dock Green. Peter took quite a few detail shots, including this one of the side pier and wing walls (although we dropped the wing walls on Dock Green). He spent some time with prints of the pictures counting brick courses to scale the photos and made several drawings to sort out the structure of the model. Chaz Edited December 12, 2012 by chaz 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc smith Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 (edited) "The problem with the Peco turnouts" - how long have you got? Using them for Dock Green was always going to involve a huge dollop of compromise. By cutting away the "coffin" in the four foot I have only removed the most obvious fault. The huge flangeways, the jointed switch rails etc etc remain. I chose to use these points because I wanted to be able to finish the layout within a couple of years. The overall impression is more important to me than relatively small defects like unsupported switch rails. However I have nothing but admiration for those people who eliminate all these compromises by building their own track. Chaz Yes indeed Chaz, But as you say, some of us just don't have time to build absolutely everything I too admire those who do have sufficient time But it also takes a whole lot of dedication, Building everything oneself, it can be easy to run out of steam (You're not the only one who drops in the puns!) Yes, I had read your earlier post, and realised that the track was already laid Again, this has made what you have done more of a challenge.... and a brave move, to boot As you say, it's the overall effect and consistency that give a layout the edge That bridge is looking great too Oh, and whatever is wrong with PECO's O gauge points.... .... they're a whole lot better than their OO versions.... Cheers again Edited December 13, 2012 by marc smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alant Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Oh, and whatever is wrong with PECO's O gauge points.... .... they're a whole lot better than their OO versions.... Cheers again Hi Marc, I agree and had a whole load of them from previous layouts. Would love to have the time to use hand built track but prefer to spend my time on other aspects of the hobby. I do think the new version (with "coffin") though are not as good as the older ones. Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 (edited) Hi Marc, I agree and had a whole load of them from previous layouts. Would love to have the time to use hand built track but prefer to spend my time on other aspects of the hobby. I do think the new version (with "coffin") though are not as good as the older ones. Alan. There is another aspect to consider when making the choice of track to use. The best arguement I have seen in favour of hand built track is that it allows the sort of flowing layouts and prototypical formations which are not possible using Peco. A simple track layout like Dock Green (or your Factory Lane Sidings, Alan) is quite possible with the fixed geometry without too much, if any, compromise. It's just a pity that Peco took a big step away from realism with their "improved" design. Chaz Edited December 13, 2012 by chaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 15, 2012 Author Share Posted December 15, 2012 Peter has made more progress with bridge #4. He has added the "stepped" brickwork on the parapet walls. Looking impressive! Sorry about the flash photo but the background is very distracting.... Chaz 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 21, 2012 Author Share Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) For reasons too tedious to go into progress on Dock Green has been stalled until yesterday, when I carried on the work of modifying the Peco points. The picture above shows one of the points with the "coffin" cut away, one of the replacement sections of timber glued in and the sleepers on either side of the tie-bar extended ready for a point lever. The green piece (!) is a small offcut of card with a slot for the drive pin, pushed under the tie-bar to support it whilst I slice away the bumps on either side. As I think I mentioned before I bought some Ambis point lever frets at the recent trade show in Reading. Here's a fret (there were two in each packet)... If you look closely you can see two levers, one straight and one with an S curve. The H shaped piece is the stand plate (?) and there are also a number of tiny, tiny cranks and brackets which I put on one side. The levers have a slot in their tops to accept a handle made from 0.8mm wire. The slot is too narrow for the wire. The easiest way to solve that one is to flatten the end of the wire in a tool-maker's clamp. The picture above shows a lever (with its wire handle already in place) having a pivot wire soldered in. If you need to solder wire or tube into a flat piece you can keep it square to the surface by pushing it into a hole in a small block of wood. Note the card offcut to prevent scorching of the little piggies! (Sorry if that's old hat). I needed to modify the stand plate, extending the slot and shortening the fold down sides to get it to fit onto my extended sleepers. Here's the result.... A point lever (non-working, of course) finished apart from a little light weathering to tone down the glaring white. When I was looking through my copy of Peter J Coster's excellent album, "The Book of the Great Northern", I found some excellent pictures taken in New England yards. Some of these showed point levers like the Ambis ones with the mechanism and linkage boarded over - presumably to keep the weather out. I have added boards made from my favourite thin ply'. I bought three packs of levers, being enough for six points. Dock Green has nine points. I realised that if I made up three more stand plates I could use three of the straight levers (my first choice was the S curve type) to make up the shortfall. The final photo shows two Peco points transformed into something that looks far more realistic. The "coffin" has gone and the hand throw levers, de rigeur in a goods yard, add a nice bit of detail. A little work to do yet with a paintbrush. Those rail-sides need retouching - and the lengthman has been very idle, judging by the lack of grease on the slide chairs . Chaz Edited December 21, 2012 by chaz 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltic17 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Just caught up with the coffin removal - that is an excellent job you've done there - it has inspired me to have a similar go at my points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Siddall Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Very nice work indeed Chaz! I've got a lever frame in mind and those Ambis levers look like they'll be just the job :-) David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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