BRealistic Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 You're not the first to 'go up this alley'... and I'm sure you won't be the last! It would be nice if all the makers of etchings pasted actual size images on thier web sites... or provided precise measurements. It's a case, really, of buying the windows first and modelling around them! Do wonder which prototypes (if any!) the etches are based on... as they don't ever seem to fit the one you've chosen. Best of luck! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted August 17, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 17, 2012 You're not the first to 'go up this alley'... and I'm sure you won't be the last! It would be nice if all the makers of etchings pasted actual size images on thier web sites... or provided precise measurements. It's a case, really, of buying the windows first and modelling around them! Do wonder which prototypes (if any!) the etches are based on... as they don't ever seem to fit the one you've chosen. Best of luck! I was also going to say that it was a close run thing when I did my model of a Midland box for 'Callow Lane'. The basis of the model was a much-modifed Ratio structure, and a standard Churchward/Modelex Midland Railway signalbox windows etch (not specifically intended for the kit, unlike one of their other frets, IIRC). A fair bit of filing of both window apertures and actual brass window etches was necessary, especially in terms of the width of the smaller windows (in other words, some of the etched windows were a tad too large). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted August 17, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 17, 2012 Thanks for the quick responses. In the meantime I have been thinking outside the box (box, get it????) and tried mocking one window in the open position so it's harder to tell it's wrong how's this look, and would it be odd if all 4 were open at once? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 ...does it look OK? Honestly, Colin, no it doesn't - it looses the essential symmetry of the 5-pane layout, and I think your best bet is to have a strong beer and recut the window apertures. Rule number 1 of signal boxes - check the windows first! (I'm having the same problem adapting some Ratio frames.) The GWR '5-pane' came in a bewildering variety of sizes. Edit: Yes, I think it would be odd for all windows to be open. But then, on a really hot sunny day, who knows... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted August 17, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 17, 2012 Colin, if you are sure that your window apertures are the correct size, then it's clearly a matter of the Churchward/Modelex windows being for a smaller sized box (actually a cautionary tale, as I will have to check them myself when I come to scratchbuild a GW Type 5 box in a couple of years time). Unless you reduce the size of the window apertures (I'd perhaps be tempted to make up a fresh card mock-up to see how it all looks), there is the option of using a bow pen (or Bob Moore lining pen, as I do), to produce your own, which would essentially be neat Humbrol enamels drawn onto the glazing material. Alternatively, you could do as I've seen others do, and use very small section Evergreen plastic section, glued directly to the glazing (the less agressive 'Limone' liquid adhesive sold by Wizard Models might be appropriate here). Either way, you have my sympathies, it's not unreasonable to make a key assumption around the likelihood of the etched windows being to a standard GW design!... Thanks. I am sure that I have built the apertures correctly as per the plan I have - you can see the drawn window fits correctly in the aperture. I might be forced down the evergreen/limone route otherwise as I don't really want to ge tthe wondows wrong. On a signalbox I feel the main windows are like the eyes of a portrait - they make or break it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted August 17, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 17, 2012 Honestly, Colin, no it doesn't - it looses the essential symmetry of the 5-pane layout, and I think your best bet is to have a strong beer and recut the window apertures. Rule number 1 of signal boxes - check the windows first! (I'm having the same problem adapting some Ratio frames.) The GWR '5-pane' came in a bewildering variety of sizes. Edit: Yes, I think it would be odd for all windows to be open. But then, on a really hot sunny day, who knows... Thanks for being honest - that's what I was after Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggesford box Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Hi, it would certainly be more typical to have just the windows at either end of the front open because of squeezing behind the frame to open the others. Not unknown though to have all the windows open. I know I did at Abergavenny when I used to work there. Mind you, when I first went there I had my work cut out to free them as apart from those pairs at either end of the front all the others on the front where seized solid. Of course on most of our layouts it is a perpetually fine summers day. Real pain (pane?! sorry) to find the windows will not fit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted August 17, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 17, 2012 Colin, the other thing you could do perhaps, is to find a friendly person who could do the artwork and etching of some bespoke windows for you? There are definitely people on this forum with the necessary knowledge and skills (albeit not me!). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted August 17, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 17, 2012 Thanks Eggesesford Box, I have actually ended up with just the centre one open (otherwise it would mess up the symmetry of the bodge I have done) I have trimmed the apertures on either side to fit the windows as etched and this is the result: I know the pillars between the windows are a bit fine but as a compromise I think I will proably go with it as at least the overall size of the box has been retained Opinions please???? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted August 17, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 17, 2012 I'd be dead chuffed that, Colin. Others would strive for perfection, but this meets the "near enough effect" that I think enables a whole layout to actually get built. Only you can say if it will please or irritate you as the years go by - and by then, your techniques may have advanced that little bit further and next time it will indeed be perfect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 I'd certainly go with it, Colin... and I'm a bit of a perfectionist on the quiet! Great idea having the centre pair open... might use it myself in the not too distant future! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted August 17, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 17, 2012 Thanks chaps. I have pressed on and made the necessary adjustments to the other apertures and I now have a full set of windows and matching apertures. As it turned out the other compromises did't hurt too much. It was mainly the three windows across the front I was worried about. Pragmatism and your kind words have eased my worries there and I think it will look OK. The brick outer skin has been cut to size and I have just painted the inside of the box. I need to glue a couple of things on the inside back wall and paint them before I begin the assembly run. Hopefully more pics tomorrow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Are you glazing now or glazing later? (Either way, suggest paint window frames before attaching them.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted August 17, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 17, 2012 I have just primed the window frames for painting and I'm going to try liquid glazing. All before I fit the windows to the walls. If liquid glazing fails I have space in the frames to stick in some clear plastic. Just finished the interior detail on the back wall of the box: Having been honest with me before, how do you think the main windows look in post 34? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 See posts 35 and 36 for starters! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggesford box Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Once it is all completed I reckon you will be the only one who will notice the dodge. On the interior I do not know that the colour scheme might more typically be chocolate up to the bottom of the windows and cream above. I might be wrong though, have any of your books got any interior shots giving an indication of the paint scheme? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted August 17, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 17, 2012 Once it is all completed I reckon you will be the only one who will notice the dodge. On the interior I do not know that the colour scheme might more typically be chocolate up to the bottom of the windows and cream above. I might be wrong though, have any of your books got any interior shots giving an indication of the paint scheme? Believe it or not in wartime austerity fashion the internal walls were bare brick. I toyed with lining it with brick plasticard and doing the full monty, but life's too short! I'm hoping the colour I mixed will do as a representation, when viewed through the windows. I kept it on the dark side to prevent reflections when lit, and because bricks don't weather indoors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted August 18, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 18, 2012 Hi all, Some progress today limited by the heat and the temptation of a good Tom Clancy book in the sun. For those curious about how I got on with the Carrs liquid window stuff - I didn't!. Carrs on the left. Old style thin plastic superglued behind the frame on the right. Basically the carrs didn't adhere in the way they described. The instructions described using a loop of wire to make a bubble and then pop it onto the frame. It simply didn't work. I had to put more liquid on then drag it across the openings with the tip of a scalpel. At that point I had too thick a film and bubbles appeared in the surface. Think I shall be sticking to old school methods for the rest although I will perhaps have one more try with the carrs in case the heat was the problem. Earlier in the day I had painted all the windows and the door (which is a much better shade of chocolate and cream than the pitcure suggests, honest!) I also made a false floor and tried a quick mock-up for height Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted August 22, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 22, 2012 Windows glazed and in position in the front wall, and brick cladding glued onto foamboard shell. Feels like it's coming together......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggesford box Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Just to prove you have nothing to worry about re the middle windows being open I worked a short turn in Banbury South 14/18 on Monday and had to smile when I realised that the early turn signalman had just one pair of windows at the front open in the middle of the frontage where there are some spaces in the frame. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted August 22, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 22, 2012 ) Thanks Eggesford! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted August 23, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 23, 2012 lessons learned log: I was folding the side wall to the correct 90 degree angle with the front wall and a small crack appeared in the brick plasticard. I have been trying very hard to have a continuous sheet of brick so that he corner looks like bricks, without the telltale joint. I decided to run a little liquid poly into the crack thinking it would reinforce the crack and hold things together. WRONG! it weakened the fold and I sat and watched the crack spread top to bottom! Aargh! Don't try this at home. I now have the joint I didn't want. Hey ho, just have to work hard with filler and paint so it doesn't show when the box is finished. At least the mortar lines are aligned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 The small crack opened up probably as a result of something on the inside not mating properly and causing a stress. Suggest leave it for a few days, then gently sand off the offending ridge, then the courses can be notched back in with a suitable needle file. (A slotting file is best for this, but they're expensive.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted August 23, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 23, 2012 The small crack opened up probably as a result of something on the inside not mating properly and causing a stress. Suggest leave it for a few days, then gently sand off the offending ridge, then the courses can be notched back in with a suitable needle file. (A slotting file is best for this, but they're expensive.) I think it was just the result of folding a thin sheet of plastic, unfortunately Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted August 23, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 23, 2012 Hi Colin, annoying about the crack, but as Miss P says, it can be over come once the glue has really hardened off. Otherwise, glad to see you're making more progress! One other way to glaze the etched Churchward/Modex type windows is to spray them first (easy if white, just use a Halfords white primer on the front side), then when the paint has dried thoroughly, gently abrade the rear (brass) side and gently spray with Display Mount aerosol adhesive and lay the window (using a pair of thin tweezers) on a piece of glazing material, which is just slightly larger than the etched window. Once the glue has hardened off, carefully cut the glazing material away with a scalpel and touch in the sides with the appropriate colour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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