SR parcels formations circa 1968

[steve1023]

Hey guys. I'm considering making a short parcels train representative of the SR circa 1968, more specifically the Central Division, Approx 3 or 4 vehicles, OO scale.

 

I have only managed to locate a couple of pictures which in which the consist was mainly GUVs in maroon.

 

Questions are:

1 - Did the SR ever retain any of its green liveried GUVs for use on its parcels workings?

2 - At this time did the BR Mk1 design stock mix freely with SR design stock?

3 - If SR design stock was still common-place what would be the best RTR stuff to go for?

4 - Was rail blue more common in 1968 or was maroon/SR green still common at this time?

 

Thanks in advance.

Steve

[roythebus]

BR blue would have been a rarity at that time as it was "new" then. Most parcel stock was an indeterminate colour, the best description being a word starting with S and ending in hitty.

 

All sorts of stock would run together.

[Adam]

Broadly, TPO stock excepted, photographic evidence rather suggests that parcels vehicles got about regardless of build date/regional or pre-nationalisation origins. The green GUVs were re-painted for a specific service, the Okehampton car carrier which only ran in the summer and only for a few short years. The vehicles got wheresoever their loads required the rest of the year, though maintenance responsibility probably remained with Eastleigh. Here's a nice shot showing one at Bletchley:

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/barkingbill/2127638514/sizes/o/in/set-72157603696486994/

 

The only (modern) RTR SR 'parcels' designs to be had are from Hornby, the Van B and Van C and one of those, with whatever other parcels types you have handy would do nicely, perhaps 1 in blue, and cleanish, the remainder grubby maroon, green, or whatever. But the answer, as so often is to look at photos and come toy your own conclusions. There's plenty out there on Flickr, for example.

 

Adam

 

Adam

[Oldddudders]

The two principal parcels trains on the Central in 1968 were the 11.35 Chichester - Bricklayers Arms, and 1535(?) return. These were long, heavy trains with fixed formations and BRUTE trolleys in every vehicle. They called at main stations along the West Coastway, picking up perishables from the many market gardens along there, and then Haywards Heath, Three Bridges, Redhill, East Croydon. My entirely fallible recollection is that CCTs and GUVs abounded. The principle of operation was that stations loaded BRUTES before the train's arrival, and simply removed an empty trolley, replacing it with their loaded one, so station dwell-time was limited. Other trains were the 0106 Channelsea - Bricklayers Arms and 0500 return, and the 2000 Clapham Yard to Bricklayers Arms, aka "The Cakes" because it carried Lyons Cadby Hall traffic, which had been tripped off the West London Line into Clapham. There was also the 0639 Blisworth - Redhill, via Oxford, Reading & Guildford, and the morning paper trains - the 0320 Victoria - Brighton and 0327 Victoria - Eastbourne.

[zarniwhoop]

The two principal parcels trains on the Central in 1968 were the 11.35 Chichester - Bricklayers Arms, and 1535(?) return.

 

Ian, many thanks for that - I've got one of the WTTs, but I never managed to find the return working in it! I did once see

the up working at Hove (early 1970s), and from what I can recall it was a mix of SR and BR PMV/Covcar and CCT, all heavily

covered by dirt. I suppose that by the time I saw it, the guard would have been in the rear cab (probably a Class 73), I

suppose that might have been true in 1968 too, otherwise it would have needed at least one guard's vehicle (e.g. a BY

or a BR BG).

 

ĸen, still hoping to model the West Coastway in late 60s/early 70s, but not making a lot of progress at the moment

[steve1023]

Guys - Thanks for the replies. Ian - the Chichester - Bricklayers Arms train is perfect. Many thanks.

 

Steve

[talisman56]

I remember frequenting the 03:20 Vic-Btn on many occasions after late shifts at work between '70 and '74 - there was supposed to be a Brake Second or Composite in the formation so the guard had somewhere more comfortable than the rear cab of the '73' (or rarely '33') to travel in - on the occasions when this vehicle was not present, there were two options - wait for the first service train in the morning or if one was lucky, the Guard would be amenable to some company and one could ride in the rear cab with him (provided you stayed out of sight during station stops...).

 

There was an afternoon parcels/newspapers run from the London area down to the South Coast (apologies for the vagueness but I only ever saw it at HH while waiting for a train) - having reread the previous answers it may well be the 15:35(?) mentioned by Olddudders, AFAIR, it arrived just after 16:00 in the Down Loop platform before the Down Vic-Littlehampton and left before the Down LB-Btn stopper wanted the platform so it could be crossed by the Down Vic-Btn semi-fast. The consist was exclusively 4-wheel vehicles (Mk1 CCTs and in the earlier years the occasional SR wooden PMV) headed by a '73', the colours varied from pristine blue examples to really filthy maroon, with a gradual movement from the latter to the former over the years, while the earlier-painted blue ones rapidly assumed the mantle of filth which maroon ones exhibited. One question arising from that train, apart from the PMVs, I can't recall seeing any green-painted Mk1 CCTs - where there any?

 

Edited for stupid spelling mistakes....

[Gwiwer]

The Chichester - B/Arms (as it was always chalked on vans and BRUTEs) was formed as Ian says of CCT 4-wheel vans mostly of BR origin but some wooden-bodied SR PMV ones appeared at times. Typically loading to 12 vehicles it could be as many as 17-18 at Christmas. Starting from Chichester it called at Barnham, Angmering, Worthing Central (as it was then) and Hove before making the stops Ian notes up the main line. While facilities existed it shunted at those stations to attach more vans from sidings or docks. At Worthing for example the train ran through platform 2 and set back into the unelectrified siding north of platform 1 to collect vans from the dock on South Farm Road. At Angmering it set back on the main line to attach a couple of vans from the yard.

 

Once such facilities had closed the train ran in a more fixed formation through from Chichester worked as Ian says with an empty BRUTE being unloaded onto the platform and replaced with a loaded one. In the days of station shunting the down working was more complex and I believe ended up along the coast late in the evening to avoid conflicting with the passenger service. IIRC the Worthing vans were detached from the train in platform 3 and shunted to the dock by the 09 on yard duty there.

 

Vans were initially maroon slowly being repainted blue over time. CCTs were a low priority so you might find maroon paint beneath many years of encrusted brake dust and grime until well into the 1970s. One or two of the SR-design vans remained (nominally) green to their end but all you would see from the lineside was a dirt-coloured vehicle. I am not aware of any BR-design CCTs having been green at any time.

 

The 03.20 Victoria - Brighton and 03.27 Victoria - Eastbourne were (officially) formed of similar rakes comprising CK+BSK+TSO (effectively an "Oxted set" as used on some Brighton - Oxted - London workings until closure) for the comfort of the guard and any passengers who might wish to make use of the service, plus 4-5 BG vehicles. BG and GUV types were often treated as interchangeable and while I didn't record any GUVs on my trips on the 03.20 I believe they did feature at times. There always seemed to be a GUV or two in the parcels dock at Brighton station and more out in the upper goods area. Again these were maroon and later blue. The green ones never appeared there to my knowledge.

[steve1023]

Guys - Thanks for the informative replies - very interesting. Not sure I'll squeeze 12 or 18 BG/GUV on my simple 6 x 4 but a shorter rake is definately on the cards.

 

The CCT - is this available in RTR?

[Gwiwer]

Lima have made the CCT and it has been reissued under Hornby recently. If you find old Lima ones be sure to change the wheels and offer the old ones to your nearest pizza shop