Red Baron Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Whilst I love my DCC setup and find the RTR new DCC products great, im having issues with some of my stock:- 1. Older Lima stuff - 37's slow running stalling r8249 decoder 2 . ditto Lima 87 - unbearably slow ? 3. lima 60 - ok but not brill. 4 73 / 50 / 47 lima not tried yet.... do i just ebay the lot - as I wonder if its worth it when you look at the cost of lights / sound etc...? Bachmann - couple of 66's running r8249 decoders... no real issues - though I appear to have "popped" a gearbox in one... Bachman voyager - already blown one r8249... do i need a diff decoder.... runs like a bag of spanners on d/c also. Hornby 86 - RES newer model.. goes like stink - no traction... any ideas? Bachmann 159 - do i chip or sell give voyager issue? older Hornby wrenn stuff? worth the grief or flog it all and buy a few new sound locos... moving on to track..... all peco code 100 am having some short/ spark issues over insulfrog points? is there a fix? or bin it? and to control... have an elite - seems to do what I ask however is there a way to have functions use a a hotkey - fn 3 enter to do horn is a PITA and then have to do again just to get back to sqr one. how the hell do i setup the select to work as a slave... bought off ebay - no manual any ideas? sorry for brain dump but v close to a serious strop! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted December 21, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 21, 2009 Whilst I love my DCC setup and find the RTR new DCC products great, im having issues with some of my stock:- 1. Older Lima stuff - 37's slow running stalling r8249 decoder 2 . ditto Lima 87 - unbearably slow ? 3. lima 60 - ok but not brill. 4 73 / 50 / 47 lima not tried yet.... do i just ebay the lot - as I wonder if its worth it when you look at the cost of lights / sound etc...? Try other makes of decoder, the Hornby one is only rated at Half an amp, other makes will work with your Hornby system. The Bachmann decoders are not expensive. Bachmann - couple of 66's running r8249 decoders... no real issues - though I appear to have "popped" a gearbox in one... That's a mechanical problem, more than likely a dislodged cardan shaft, easily repaired. Bachman voyager - already blown one r8249... do i need a diff decoder.... runs like a bag of spanners on d/c also. see above Hornby 86 - RES newer model.. goes like stink - no traction... any ideas? try adding extra weight Bachmann 159 - do i chip or sell give voyager issue? see above older Hornby wrenn stuff? worth the grief or flog it all and buy a few new sound locos... Definitely don't fit with Hornby decoders, they will go up in smoke due to the current draw from the older motors. Better quality decoders will improve control moving on to track..... all peco code 100 am having some short/ spark issues over insulfrog points? is there a fix? or bin it? wide tyred locos like Lima and Hornby older models can short across the frog where the two rails are close together at the back of the frog. painting a bit of black nail varnish onto the rail head to extend the insulated section helps a lot and to control... have an elite - seems to do what I ask however is there a way to have functions use a a hotkey - fn 3 enter to do horn is a PITA and then have to do again just to get back to sqr one. how the hell do i setup the select to work as a slave... bought off ebay - no manual any ideas? sorry for brain dump but v close to a serious strop! Can't help with the Elite I'm afraid. Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 As Andi has said, the Hornby R8249 isn't really up to the job. Try other makes and types. The other issue with the old Lima stuff, will be the condition of the mechanism. Does they run smoothly (relative for Lima of course ) or reasonably well on DC ? Whilst it's unlikely that you make a "silk purse" out of a "sow's ear", it is possible to get good performance from a decent Lima mechanism, particularly if you use much better decoders than budget types. As for function control on the Elite...well you're stuck with it. This is a particularly badly designed system for operating functions. By comparison, the cheaper Dynamis is far better in this respect. All of the function buttons can be individually set to latching or non-latching and memorised for each loco. Once set-up, sounding the horn or whistle is then just one single press of the appropriate function button. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Baron Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 Thanks for the replys... will try a different decoder - ahve used a couple of Bachmann ones maybe I should spash out on something a little posher? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted December 21, 2009 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 21, 2009 Hi Red Baron Re: Hornby Dublo/Wrenn I have remotored an R1 chassis and am currently doing a Castle mainly due to the higher current take of some older motors, also the ringfield in the cab of the castle is a bit off-putting! Loss of magnetism in older motors can also affect current take. Both new motors used are Mashima which seem to pull as well with about a third of the currrent take, 150mA against 500mA. This gives plenty of reserve with the DCC chips I am using (Lenz or TCS) which have a 1A rating Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Baron Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 Hmmm not sure my father would want me to re-engine the wrenns - plus (and I don a flame suit) they are not exactly great models compared with the newest rtr Hornby/bach/Heljan/vi stuff as for decoders... what do people recommend / use? I dont really want to spend ??20+ per decoder Bachmann 36-552? 36-553? only a pound or so more- worth it?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Baron Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 Also do i need to look at my CV settings could it be im just miles away from what it should be ? are there any guide settings i should try with these old lima locos before i rip out the Hornby decoders? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 ....as for decoders...what do people recommend / use? I dont really want to spend ??20+ per decoder Bachmann 36-552? 36-553? only a pound or so more- worth it?? The Bachmann 3-function model - available with either 8-pin connector (36-553) or 21-pin (36-554) - is a decent budget choice. It can handle a greater load than the Hornby's and has more adjustment available; however it may not be the smoothest for the Lima motors. Both are available for ??9 each (or ??8.55 each in packs of 5). The other Bachmann decoder you mention (36-552) is an old and more basic 2-function model (also without BEMF). I don't use these, but at a guess wouldn't think they'd suit the Lima's (others may have direct experience). If you don't want to spend ??20+ then there's the TCS range, which many on here recommend. Also, the new Hornby Sapphire has just become available (see the discussion on these). It may be worth a look and they are being advertised at ??18. The cheapest Lenz decoder is the Standard+ which costs around ??19 or ??20. At the end of the day, you get what you pay for. Don't expect miracles from the cheapest decoders available. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Baron Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 The Bachmann 3-function model - available with either 8-pin connector (36-553) or 21-pin (36-554) - is a decent budget choice. It can handle a greater load than the Hornby's and has more adjustment available; however it may not be the smoothest for the Lima motors. Both are available for ??9 each (or ??8.55 each in packs of 5). The other Bachmann decoder you mention (36-552) is an old and more basic 2-function model (also without BEMF). I don't use these, but at a guess wouldn't think they'd suit the Lima's (others may have direct experience). If you don't want to spend ??20+ then there's the TCS range, which many on here recommend. Also, the new Hornby Sapphire has just become available (see the discussion on these). It may be worth a look and they are being advertised at ??18. The cheapest Lenz decoder is the Standard+ which costs around ??19 or ??20. At the end of the day, you get what you pay for. Don't expect miracles from the cheapest decoders available. . Ron, it is not that I am not prepared to spend ??20+ on a decoder - but that im not sure it is worth spending ??20 per decoder for older models that lack lights / sounds etc.... if they can be made to run cheaply it is worth it but by the time you have thrown ??20 per decoder + ??20 per lights kit at an old Lima 87 I might as well have gone and bought a newer Hornby one and flogged the old one on ebay.... I had wondered about the sapphire in some of my more "valued" items (such as new HST power car). I think I only have one 552.. but am not sure which engine I put it in "think it was Bachmann 57" will open it up and look later in the week - am home in Leeds today but the layout is in parents attic over the pennines! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Ron, it is not that I am not prepared to spend ??20+ on a decoder - but that im not sure it is worth spending ??20 per decoder for older models that lack lights / sounds etc.... That seems to be the dilemma with old Lima diesels. Better (more expensive) decoders seem to work best, but is it worth it? .....if they can be made to run cheaply it is worth it but by the time you have thrown ??20 per decoder + ??20 per lights kit at an old Lima 87 I might as well have gone and bought a newer Hornby one and flogged the old one on ebay.... Not an easy decision, but like many others I've read about on here and elsewhere, I decided to replace most of my Lima fleet. I've still got around 20 of them left with only a few chipped, but they hardly come out to play these days. Try some other budget decoders on a couple and see how it goes. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold kipford Posted December 21, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 21, 2009 Got an Lima 66, 59, 47 and 73 fitted with 36-553 decoders (<??10 from Hattons) They run really well! Better than they did on DC. My NCE power cab on 128 speed steps drive them happily on speed step 1. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragtag Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Most of my fleet is fitted with the Lenz Standard+ and it's proving to be a solid decoder so far (touch wood). I recently picked up a couple of 66's and Model Rail's ltd NR 37 which have a 21-pin socket. I decided to tryout the Bachmann chips (funding tight before Christmas with the car MOT due) and so far they've been fine - although I've done little more than a short running session and making sure the lights work etc. Seem to have reasonable slow-speed control (although again, these are brand new models). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 how the hell do i setup the select to work as a slave... bought off ebay - no manual any ideas? You can download the select manual from Hornby. Select Manual Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Baron Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 thanks guys, my mood is lightening... having spend a weekend fiddling I was ready to go back and play xbox.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Chris Chewter Posted December 21, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 21, 2009 From experience, and as a rough rule of thumb, the older the motor, the better the decoder you need to fit. For example. I chipped my fleet of locos with Bacchy 2 function basic chips. However, for the rougher running Hornby Castles with their ringfield pancakes, I fitted lenz silver and gold decoders. My castles, in my opinion, run better than they did when on DC! I think the back EMF helps when it comes to older rougher motors. Don't get me wrong, the old fashioned ringfield motors don't run as silky smooth as the newer 5 pole beauties, but I certainly saw an improvement! However there are always exceptions to the rule, which no doubt someone will post here later on! One word of caution over Hornby decoders, some of the earlier basic Hornby decoders don't behave well on DC. Bought a new britannia with a Hornby decoder pre-fitted which runs perfectly on DCC, but does the lambada if I put it on a DC layout! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold mudmagnet Posted December 21, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 21, 2009 I have fitted at Bachmann 553 to a lima 31 without any problems. Did run ok on DC before though, but gave a good clean of the pick-ups / motor / gears before fitting the decoder. Now in the process of fitting leds. To be honest though, I don't think that it is worth the effort (I have a lima 33 which has been detailed with roof details corrected etc which will be converted at some stage, but another 33 was sold recently) converting older locos unless they are particular favourites or have been detailed (in the case of my 31). I would rather save up an buy the modern offerings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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