Semaphore Signals - 4mm Scale (Mainly)

[Jon Fitness]

I never know what to do with the wires too...

 

DSC08411a.jpg

That's one of the neater installations from your picture collection!

JF

[LNERGE]

Done by my own fair paws that one. 

[Steve Hewitt]

Later....the Bracket Signal....

 

The same methods were use to thread the fibre through the bracket structure:

The doll first.

 

Then through the bracket work to the main stem:

Result:

 

The problem is that loop of fibre hanging below the structure, just fouling the loading gauge.

I could have raised it a little but that would cause too tight a bend where the fibre leaves the bottom of the doll.

At such points light leaks from the fibre, not getting to the end where it is required.

I've found you can get away with one tight bend per run of fibre without too much loss.

I use this to allow light to leak at the rear of the lamp, where it represents the "Back Light".

 

The solution was to retract the fibre, and re-route it down the rear of the doll, as I have done many times previously.

 It was then threaded through the structure once more.

and carefully tied with cotton thread to keep it secure.

 

Almost ready now to start on the "working bits", which will bring the signals to life........

 

Steve.

 

[Michael Delamar]

I shall have to subscribe to this thread Steve,I wasn't aware until I spoke to you yesterday that you had got this far, they look superb.

[Steve Hewitt]

With the Working Bits in place...........

 

The operating wires connect the Arms to Weight Bar:

 

 

 

On the Bracket Signal, the Rocking Shaft transfers the movement from the top of the Main Post to the bottom of the Doll:

 

 

 

The wooden staging is stained with Colron Wood Dye.

 

The three signals on their "Transport & Test Frame"

 

I'll try to make a short video when I get chance.

 

Steve.

[Michael Delamar]

Brilliant, love the rocking bar.

[LNERGE]

I do like a signal with a sighting board..

 

[Jon Fitness]

With the Working Bits in place...........

 

The operating wires connect the Arms to Weight Bar:

RIMG1901.jpg

 

RIMG1911.jpg

 

RIMG1915.jpg

 

On the Bracket Signal, the Rocking Shaft transfers the movement from the top of the Main Post to the bottom of the Doll:

RIMG1916.jpg

 

RIMG1903.jpg

 

RIMG1904.jpg

 

The wooden staging is stained with Colron Wood Dye.

 

The three signals on their "Transport & Test Frame"

RIMG1918.jpg

 

I'll try to make a short video when I get chance.

 

Steve.

Cracking stuff as usual Steve. Particularly like that bracket signal; it has a "rightness" about the proportions and the wooden decking looks spot on.

Keep 'em coming!

JF

[Michael Delamar]

All I want now is a CLC post to stand behind it. If anyone knows how to obtain/build one?

 

[Steve Hewitt]

^{Here's the video I promised earlier.....}

 

^{[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2ruwxHo2JE[/media]}

 

^Steve.

[Highlandman]

Some lovely signals Steve. The bracket looks great but in the video it looks as though it loses some of the bounce effect between one end of the torsion bar and the other. Is this a limitation of this type of mechanism or does it just need some tweeking?

[Steve Hewitt]

Some lovely signals Steve. The bracket looks great but in the video it looks as though it loses some of the bounce effect between one end of the torsion bar and the other. Is this a limitation of this type of mechanism or does it just need some tweeking?

Like all mechanical things, there is a small loss of movement at each joint.

I work on a 2 thou (0.002in or 0.05mm) clearance at each joint to ensure free movement.

In the bracket signal, there are five joints in the linkage:

Lower wire to weight bar

Weight bar to second wire

Second wire to first Rocker crank

Second Rocker crank to upper pull wire

Upper pull wire to Signal arm.

There are also the same clearances in the Bearings:

Weight bar pivot

Fist Rocker bearing

Second Rocker bearing

Signal arm bearing.

Add all those up, and that's where the movement is lost.

 

I've occasionally use tighter clearances, but then you risk joints binding

 

You will have noticed the platform mounted signal has most bounce because there are fewest joints in its operating mechanism.

 

Steve.

[Jon Fitness]

Ah Steve, as a man who beams with glee if a finish drilled hole ends up in the same place that it started and can drill different sized holes with the same drill, I am truly envious of your engineering capabilities.!!

I do prefer it if there is a little tightness in the linkages as they (in my experience) soon loosen up with use due to the small contact areas.

 I'm not generally a fan of bouncy signals but I do test mine with a GF board as so many people use them now. I need to build a better test rig for my signals so I may incorporate a Megapoints 12 way board on the next one to accomodate more servos.  It also has a random pull off/bounce feature that'll really test my linkages!

All the best

JF

Edited September 13, 2015 by Jon Fitness

[Steve Hewitt]

Hi Jon,

 

Thanks for your kind words.

I would like to have the joints a bit tighter, but with the fine wires I use in 4mm scale, tightness encourages the wires to buckle when they have to "Push" the signal on its return to movement!

 

Steve.

[Jon Fitness]

Hi Jon,

 

Thanks for your kind words.

I would like to have the joints a bit tighter, but with the fine wires I use in 4mm scale, tightness encourages the wires to buckle when they have to "Push" the signal on its return to movement!

 

Steve.

Of course. 4mm scale needs finer wires. What are you using, 0.3 or 0.4?

JF

[Steve Hewitt]

Of course. 4mm scale needs finer wires. What are you using, 0.3 or 0.4?

JF

 

 

I use 0.4mm N/S for most the operating wires except on Ground Signals where I try to use 0.3mm.

Steve

[Steve Hewitt]

Scaleforum 2015 - Aylesbury......

 

My friend and fellow Liverpool Lime Street team member Rob Harrison and I have been invited to demonstrate

"Semaphore Signal - Construction and Operation" at Scaleforum this coming weekend.

 

I'll have one or two of my recently built signals on the display and hope to be working on a set for "Garsdale", if we're not too busy talking

I'll also have several types of Servo Controller to play with - including MERG, GF Controls and ESU Switch Pilot.

 

Do come along and say "Hello" and make yourself known - its great to put a face to RMWebbers.

 

Steve.

[Veen]

Hi Steve,

 

Been following your work since your article on the ground signal in RMJ. Excellent work, setting the standard.

 

Steve, I am not sure if this has been covered previously but I would appreciate your advice on base board requirements for fixing your semaphores. I am at the scenic stage of a 4mm model of Keswick station. Some semaphores are on the side of embankments. How do you decide the size of the N S base of each signal and what size do you use for the base? What space on the baseboard do I need to provide for a semaphore to be mounted? Any information and advice you can give on base board space and construction above and below track level so that signals can be more easily installed would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks again for the inspiration.

 

Regards,

John

[Highlandman]

Good to meet you at Scaleforum today Steve. Many thanks for taking the time to talk about signal construction and some of the methods you use. It was nice to see some of your work in the flesh, it's wonderfully done.

[Roger Sunderland]

Steve

 

Inspirational as always. I'm sure you may have covered this before but can you tell me where you get your wooden staging from and exactly what to order please?

[Tony Teague]

Good to meet you at Scalefourum, to see some of your inspirational output up close, and talk about how you go about it. A highlight of the show for me.

Best wishes

Tony

[Steve Hewitt]

Steve

 

Inspirational as always. I'm sure you may have covered this before but can you tell me where you get your wooden staging from and exactly what to order please?

Hi Roger,

Long time, no chat!

 

I've bought the timber from a trader at exhibitions; unfortunately I can't remember which one.

I remember it was at a Wigan show, before they moved date to June.(I never got there during those years).

 

The timber is sold in Display Packs similar to Brass wire etc.

 

see this website:  http://www.northeasternscalelumber.com/

 

Hope this is helpful.

 

Steve.

[Steve Hewitt]

Hi Steve,

 

Been following your work since your article on the ground signal in RMJ. Excellent work, setting the standard.

 

Steve, I am not sure if this has been covered previously but I would appreciate your advice on base board requirements for fixing your semaphores. I am at the scenic stage of a 4mm model of Keswick station. Some semaphores are on the side of embankments. How do you decide the size of the N S base of each signal and what size do you use for the base? What space on the baseboard do I need to provide for a semaphore to be mounted? Any information and advice you can give on base board space and construction above and below track level so that signals can be more easily installed would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks again for the inspiration.

 

Regards,

John

Hi John,

 

Thanks for your comments.

I'll try to answer your query, but if I can't explain it well enough, please contact me by a PM and we can arrange to chat on the phone.

 

N/S base:

Size is large enough to cover the larger brass tube which "plants" the signal in the baseboard.

Typically 0.5 in dia tube needs about 15mm wide N/S base.

(This tube is key to installation and keeping servos and signal aligned.

 

Length of baseplate front to back is sufficient to cover tube again at front, plus enough to support Ladder base at rear.

Thickness is about 0.45mm for stiffness.

 

Space on Baseboard:

Above ground, just enough for the base-plate of the signal.

Remember to allow for the "loading gauge" giving distances to track centres etc. particularly on curves!

 

Space under baseboard:

Depends how you fix your Servos.

Typically, a 50mm radius around the "planting" tube will be plenty.

If things get in the way, such as point m,otors, strengthening timbers etc. you have to be inventive in designing the servo installation.

In extreme cases you may have to resort to extra cranks, levers, rods etc.

 

The design I have documented in my Topic is what I call "semi-permanent" installation.

It is possible with care to disconnect the operating links from the servos, and ease the signals up out of the baseboard. (The reverse of the installation process).

They are only held in place by friction.

 

If you really need "removeable" signals, then you need to spring load the operating links, and allow them to be pushed upwards by the servo horn. (Acting like a Cam & Follower).

This will allow the signal to be withdrawn without any mechanical "un-coupling" being necessary.

 

Hope this all makes sense??????????????????

 

Steve.

[Steve Hewitt]

Good to meet you at Scaleforum today Steve. Many thanks for taking the time to talk about signal construction and some of the methods you use. It was nice to see some of your work in the flesh, it's wonderfully done.

 

 

Good to meet you at Scalefourum, to see some of your inspirational output up close, and talk about how you go about it. A highlight of the show for me.

Best wishes

Tony

 

Hi Guys,

 

Thanks for your kind comments - much appreciated, I can assure you.

 

It was great to meet you and several other RMwebbers at Scaleforum.

Rob and I had a very good weekend, and were kept busy throughout.

 

Our next demo. with "Semaphore Signal Construction and Operation" will be at the Warley show at the NEC in November.

 

See you there?

 

Steve.

[Tony Teague]

Steve

I will certainly be at Warley; I look forward to seeing you again.

Tony