Fowler Tenders

[Blandford1969]

I can't see this on any of the photos I have but the rivet pattern is the same as on Stanier tenders. I've never seen any drawings either but I made this one to build 40936.

049A.PDF

Thanks Michael, I agree with your thoughts on the cross members and as i have some in stock they will look good. Thanks also for sharing the drawing, I will compare to the one i had done out of curiosity. Certainly the rear shape will be a help as i had pulled up the best photos showing the rear and then comparing them to the shape of a compound cab roof. 

[Blandford1969]

I had planned to get one the very day that the Falcon Brassworks argument happened and the website closed. As well as a Stanier 3500 and a GWR eight wheeler.

 

I know they were only etchings, but all the other parts are available from other sources.

 

 

 

Jason

They did, but that is the one which was flat sided, talking of which i might get rid of my one and replace with a scratch built version as i am not especially enamoured with the Falcon kit and can do a better scratch built i feel. 

[Poor Old Bruce]

Jidenco did a kit for the high sided Fowler tender.

 

So did Perseverence for the body

[Colombo1]

I have found a photo of 3F 3435 dated 1947 at Saltley shed and fitted with a Fowler tender. There is also a photo of the same loco dated 1956 and again with a Fowler tender. Are there any other instances of a 3F with a Fowler tender in place of the usual Johnson one?

[Poor Old Bruce]

22 hours ago, Colombo1 said:

I have found a photo of 3F 3435 dated 1947 at Saltley shed and fitted with a Fowler tender. There is also a photo of the same loco dated 1956 and again with a Fowler tender. Are there any other instances of a 3F with a Fowler tender in place of the usual Johnson one?

 

The tender attached to 43435 was  not a Fowler tender at all. It was a one-off modified Johnson tender of 3250 gallon capacity transferred from withdrawn 4-4-0 No.393. It had extended sides rather than coal rails. AFAIK no 3F was fitted with a Fowler tender.

[Blandford1969]

On 22/02/2021 at 10:01, Poor Old Bruce said:

 

The tender attached to 43435 was  not a Fowler tender at all. It was a one-off modified Johnson tender of 3250 gallon capacity transferred from withdrawn 4-4-0 No.393. It had extended sides rather than coal rails. AFAIK no 3F was fitted with a Fowler tender.

Do you happen to know what year it was re built and if you know of a drawing of it? TIA

[Ian M.]

On 11/09/2017 at 11:27, steves17 said:

Does anyone know if any Fowler tenders were built without the standard water scoop aspect to them?

Late to the party here but the Fowler tenders for the S&DJR 7F 2-8-0s built by Stephenson in 1925 had certain elements of the water pickup apparatus but were not so equipped when delevered.  This paraphrasing the S&DJR Trust at https://www.sdrt.org/53808-how-the-sd-7fs-came-into-being-in-detail/

 

I have seen at least 1 other reference (need to find it) that I recall saying the Folwer standard tenders on the 2nd batch 7F lacked the pickup scoop, the "journal" and handle to operate the scoop (which is typically opposite the handbrake handle) and possibly(?) the dome.

 

[steves17]

Hi Ian.

Thanks for the link. Those LMS Profile books are a great addition to most people's shelves and 'LMS Review' No.1 also has an article on the 'old standard'. It mentions The LMS sold three 2P Fowlers to the S&DJR in 1928 and removed their water pick up gear giving them a non standard weight of 20T 5cwt (the LMS built new Fowlers for the 2P donors not too long afterwards). It doesn't go into much detail on the 1925 Stephensons other than having a 5T 10cwt coal capacity, no steam heating equipment and the standard weight of 21T 11cwt.

I'm a bit ropy on all this now without refreshing properly but 7F No.88 is preserved with a Fowler tank on Deeley frames without breathers or a pick up dome, while possibly uniquely the holder prongs for the fire irons are on the lefthand side of the arching bracket thingy rather than in the centre.

http://www.ten.rhrp.org.uk/tens/TenderInfo.asp?Ref=171

 

The other preserved 7F (53809) is paired with conventional Fowler No.4302, so still one of the 5 strong that Stephenson built. Presumably it has always lacked a scoop but photos do show a dome and I can't spot any breathers.

 

The Review book passingly states some LMS Fowlers were not built with water pick up gear, some were built with steam heating and it specifies that 0-8-0s Nos.9500-9674 were steam braked only.

 

Edited January 16 by steves17

[Blandford1969]

A quick flick through photos of the later batch certainly supports them not having breathers and therefore no scoop. The only views of 7/8/ and 9 I have showing the rear all show a dome. However we know tenders swapped around. 

 

 

[Ian M.]

On 17/01/2024 at 15:19, Blandford1969 said:

A quick flick through photos of the later batch certainly supports them not having breathers and therefore no scoop. The only views of 7/8/ and 9 I have showing the rear all show a dome. However we know tenders swapped around. 

Are any of those rear tender views while in SDJR or early LMS service per chance? Also,  do any show the full rear-end and do they have tender and/or capacity plates? I have a theory, unverified by any photo evidence,  that as delivered and upon assumption by LMS in 1930, the 1925 batch of 7Fs probably had just brass capacity plates but no tender number plates since they pre-dated 1927-28 when LMS started adding these (right?)

[Blandford1969]

8 hours ago, Ian M. said:

Are any of those rear tender views while in SDJR or early LMS service per chance? Also,  do any show the full rear-end and do they have tender and/or capacity plates? I have a theory, unverified by any photo evidence,  that as delivered and upon assumption by LMS in 1930, the 1925 batch of 7Fs probably had just brass capacity plates but no tender number plates since they pre-dated 1927-28 when LMS started adding these (right?)

Sadly not , all in BR days. As for the tender capacity plates, will have to check. 

[Ian M.]

On 25/01/2024 at 15:37, Blandford1969 said:

Sadly not , all in BR days. As for the tender capacity plates, will have to check. 

Gentle nudge ;-)

[Blandford1969]

Here is 53804 in 1960 at Templecombe 

 

Here is 53805 in 1950 - 

I doubt they changed much from S&D days, you just have to be careful what tender they were fitted with

 

 

[Poor Old Bruce]

53804 has acquired a Fowler tender at some time while 53805 has retained an original Deeley tender.