TheAlchemist Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Just to add to the background on the "Communication Cord". In the days when they were originally fitted amongst the purposes included the protection of the honour of the "Lady" passengers. The which 'flag' which appeared was to identify the carriage where the cord had been pulled. There was a time when schoolboys enjoyed the thrill of stopping a train. But then the guard would ask for the offender's name and address (much more honesty then) and the outcome was the fine as stated on the label adjacent to the cord pocket. It was not possible to restore the cord, on the GWR actually a chain, from the compartment so denial was not accepted! TheAlchemist Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 9, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 9, 2012 Well what it definitely isn't is anything to do with the steam pipe on the vehicle ends (see pics below - which show steam pipes from two different angles). However it does look familiar but I'm trying desparately to place it - is it an upside down DA valve (I think not) or is it some other sort of steam shut-off valve? - sorry I can't answer that and am still thinking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 Thanks Mike, nice pictures. They give me a good view of the buckeye which will be useful. I intend to allow the hook to pivot around its vertical axis and fix the buck eye to it in the same way as it is in the photo allowing it to pop up and be used as needed. A 14BA nut and bolt tight enough to stop droop should just about work me thinks. Thanks to Brian Daniels for help with this idea. Don't over tax the grey matter Mike. It will come to you in time. Thanks for the help and advice. Andy Jack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R A Watson Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 The list states that it is a pressure relief valve but I believe that it is also a condensate trap this collects the water condensing out in the pipe work and automatically vents to atmosphere when a set amount has been collected, think of it as the same as the water trap on your airbrush compressor and you will not go too far wrong. I must admit following the earlier correspondence I have never played with the heating systems as we only ran trains in the summer! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted August 11, 2012 Author Share Posted August 11, 2012 Hi Wally, Actually, you could well be right. The casting has small holes in the side below the 'tap' and the holes could well be sighting holes to show how much water is in the trap. The 'tap' could be a plunger, release mechanism. It looks as if it should be mounted tap side down as such. Of course next question is where do it go? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 11, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 11, 2012 Hi Wally, Actually, you could well be right. The casting has small holes in the side below the 'tap' and the holes could well be sighting holes to show how much water is in the trap. The 'tap' could be a plunger, release mechanism. It looks as if it should be mounted tap side down as such. Of course next question is where do it go? I can't be certain on this Andy but I have an inkling that it goes somewhere along the steam line under the coach - but I can't find a pic anywhere to support my supposition. I think the nest person to ask is likely to be Bob65B who I believe had a fairly close working relationship with coaching stock at some time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 FWIW here's a picture of the underside of the bufferbeam: Unfortunately the side nearest the camera is of the steam pipe (this pipe is shown in other pictures with lagging). Credit to Craig Welsh who posted a series of underframe details here some while ago. I couldn't find the thread when I searched. John The picture looks like its from my gallery here: http://www.rmweb.co....rframe-details/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Having cross referenced the photographs posted by Brossard and credited to Craig Welsh to those in my gallery, the similarities are astounding. Whereas I have no objection to people referencing or posting them in threads on this forum, or downloading them for personal use, I do have issues with people hosting them on other sites such as photobucket without my prior knowledge and approval. If they ARE mine, the the copyright belongs to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted August 11, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 11, 2012 I am deeply disappointed to note that nowhere, really nowhere in this thread, does anyone suggest that the cord rings a bell in the driver's cab, as was the myth of yore. Clearly the days of innocent belief are long gone. Shame. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Before the days of continuous brakes didn't at least one company have a cord that rang a bell? Or sometimes didn't if there was too much slack where it was joined between the coaches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 I am deeply disappointed to note that nowhere, really nowhere in this thread, does anyone suggest that the cord rings a bell in the driver's cab, as was the myth of yore. Clearly the days of innocent belief are long gone. Shame. I believe that an alarm sounded in the cab of the APT if the alarm cord was yanked. Edit: The Pass-alarm light would indicate that there had been an alarm cord pulled. The driver could then press an override button if necessary to avoid stopping in a tunnel or on a viaduct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R A Watson Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 If my experience of supplying components for compressed air ring mains can be drawn on in this context the moisture trap is always at the lowest point of the pipe run, in some cases a tee joint is incorporated to put on an artificial low point in the pipe work. Therefore depending on the design the drain can be anywhere on the system; it is worth remembering that water will always run downhill and will not be influenced by the movement of the gaseous contents of the pipe work. If I remember correctly the drains on the steam heat were at the flexible connection point as this is lower than the pipe work which is supported by and runs along the under frame structure and are automatically drained by the detection of contents in the reservoir. It was often as a result of partial failure of this device that you saw steam emerging between the coach ends. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Can they? vBetween small children reacihng up to the Pass Com on a 158 (its jsut above the seat backs) and the Driver not noticing the DSD alarm thingy, I think I've come to a grinding in halt in quite a few tunnels...... According to the documentary on driving the APT, this facility existed on the APT. I posted this on a previous thread: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Before the days of continuous brakes didn't at least one company have a cord that rang a bell? Or sometimes didn't if there was too much slack where it was joined between the coaches. Yes, indeed, it is not a myth. From the late-1860s the GWR mounted gongs on the sides of tenders that were operated by a continuous cord passing through loops on the outside of carriages. This mechanism was used on both gauges. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted August 11, 2012 Author Share Posted August 11, 2012 Thanks Baby Deltic, a very useful set of photos. Got any of the alarm set up please? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Thanks Baby Deltic, a very useful set of photos. Got any of the alarm set up please? Hi, I only have those pictures of a MK1 up close and personal. I was lucky enough to be wandering round the workshop at the North Norfolk Railway when they had a MK1 up on jacks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Here's a side-on view of two coupled MK1's. The alarm housing can be seen on the R/H coach end: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted August 11, 2012 Author Share Posted August 11, 2012 Hi Baby Deltic, Thanks, a very worthwhile set of photos. The photo of the alarm set up helps. So I think I am right in saying that the alarm control box is only fitted at one end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Hi Baby Deltic, Thanks, a very worthwhile set of photos. The photo of the alarm set up helps. So I think I am right in saying that the alarm control box is only fitted at one end. Judging by the picture, it looks like they were fitted at 'diagonal' ends, so the linkage and flag would be the left hand end whichever side you were viewing the coach from. I would think that, as has been mentioned, they were anchored internally at the ends on the opposite diagonal. The linkage going up above the gangway is curious. Was the valve located higher up? I'm only surmising though. Edit: Having studied one of my own pictures, they were at one end only. The linkage over the gangway attached both sides to the valve so the flag would go up on both sides of the coach: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted August 11, 2012 Author Share Posted August 11, 2012 Very useful, thanks. I think that the parts in the kit sort of resemble what is actually fitted on coaches but it takes a bit of working out. The chain inside the coach must have only run down one side and terminated at the valve with the linkage over the gangway only there to operate the flag on the other side. Thanks again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Very useful, thanks. I think that the parts in the kit sort of resemble what is actually fitted on coaches but it takes a bit of working out. The chain inside the coach must have only run down one side and terminated at the valve with the linkage over the gangway only there to operate the flag on the other side. Thanks again The linkage allowed the valve to be activated from either side, plus, as you say, the flag would also move on both sides so the guard knew which coach had had a valve activation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted August 11, 2012 Author Share Posted August 11, 2012 Another question answered, thanks. Need to part the components from the sprue and get on with it now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted August 11, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 11, 2012 Having cross referenced the photographs posted by Brossard and credited to Craig Welsh to those in my gallery, the similarities are astounding. Whereas I have no objection to people referencing or posting them in threads on this forum, or downloading them for personal use, I do have issues with people hosting them on other sites such as photobucket without my prior knowledge and approval. If they ARE mine, the the copyright belongs to me. Even down to the file name in Brossard's gallery image being the one generated by RMweb when the photo was uploaded. Lloyd, the photo is yours, have you reported the theft to the authorities here? Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Even down to the file name in Brossard's gallery image being the one generated by RMweb when the photo was uploaded. Lloyd, the photo is yours, have you reported the theft to the authorities here? Andi I have flagged it because Andy Y needs to be aware. Whereas I will gladly allow the photo's in my gallery to be hosted anywhere on this forum, if they are credited to me, technically the member concerned is posting stolen images on the forum without copyright or credit to to the true owner, nor permission from the owner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 I presume it is a similar arrangement on MkII, MkIII and MkIV stock, a colleague of mine on a recent journey down the ECML witnessed a person having a seizure of some sort and someone pulled the cord which stopped the train somewhere near Stevenage, the train then re-started and moved to Stevenage for the emergency services to take the person off. If the train was booked to stop at Stevenage anyway pulling the cord just lengthens the time before medical help was available, somebody telling the guard is much better. However, on a recent journey by Pendolino I noticed that the emergency cord appears to have been replaced by emergency communication with the driver. I think this is probably a preferable solution - no sudden braking, no stopping in the middle of nowhere out of reach of any emergency services if it is a personal incident rather than a mechanical incident. Clearly the old mechanical solution was an effective one but given today's ease of communication with the driver something less immediate is probably the way forward, do other trains use this or is it just the Pendolino? On modern trains there is an alarm in the cab and if the driver does nothing then the brake will go in but the driver has a foot pedal to kick over, talk to the person pulling the alarm and arrange for any assistance at a suitable location through the signalman, which is much better than stopping a train in the middle of nowhere and wasting time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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