Theory of General Minories

[Flying Pig]

41 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

I certainly recognise that trackplan - does everyone else, it's quite iconic on this site.

 

Yes, I recognised it straight away.

[Pacific231G]

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

I certainly recognise that trackplan - does everyone else, it's quite iconic on this site.

I wasn't certain as, though I've enjoyed watching it in operation several times  I'd not spotted that the layout in question had quite such an awkward path to get coaching stock between platforms and sidings. 

I have been wondering if it was inspired by this.

though here there is direct access between the main arrival platform and the carriage sidings.

 

Edited July 12, 2023 by Pacific231G

[SZ]

I was thinking more Holborn Viaduct.

 

If you change the throat of a Minories it is no longer a Minories. Crutched Friars for instance is just a standard trailing then facing crossover pair that could be seen anywhere.

[Nearholmer]

To me, a layout of Ramsgste Harbour becomes three fiddle yards joined by a complex of point-work.

 

Can anyone, perhaps, up the ante by suggesting a layout consisting of four fiddle yards connected by a mesh of turnouts?

[Compound2632]

9 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Can anyone, perhaps, up the ante by suggesting a layout consisting of four fiddle yards connected by a mesh of turnouts?

 

Trent?

 

 

Half-a-dozen fiddle yards...

[St Enodoc]

5 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

To me, a layout of Ramsgste Harbour becomes three fiddle yards joined by a complex of point-work.

 

Can anyone, perhaps, up the ante by suggesting a layout consisting of four fiddle yards connected by a mesh of turnouts?

Aldwarke Junction.

[simon b]

9 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

 

 

Can anyone, perhaps, up the ante by suggesting a layout consisting of four fiddle yards connected by a mesh of turnouts?

Borough Market triangle.

 

Neasden.

 

Banbury.

 

Of course if you like shuffling wagons around the approaches to Fenchurch street would keep 6 people busy.

Edited July 13, 2023 by simon b

[Nearholmer]

I was thinking of a model railway layout, rather than a complex of real railways, and really it was a bit of a wry musing, prompted by wondering exactly how much appetite for shuffling toy trains back and forth on an ironing-board Minoriesophiles might have.

[john new]

Ambergate & Shipley both on the Midland and Arthington on the North Eastern.

 

Clifton sidings on the ECML. Main line, York avoider, Clifton loops,  Sugar factory sidings, Harrogate branch and ECML. 

[Northroader]

Ford Junction, east of the river.

[Flying Pig]

2 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

I was thinking of a model railway layout, rather than a complex of real railways, and really it was a bit of a wry musing, prompted by wondering exactly how much appetite for shuffling toy trains back and forth on an ironing-board Minoriesophiles might have.

 

To avoid an endless list of locations, shall we go back to Margate Sands and note that two out of the three 'fiddle yards' are actually on scene: the station itself and the carriage sidings (just like the Bradfield model which inspired this discussion).  A more stringent criterion is therefore "a set of four 'fiddle yards' connected by points, at least three of which can appear as components of a compact layout".

 

To address the second part of @Nearholmer's post above, a read through the Bradfield thread shows how one of the strengths of the layout was its very well imagined operations.  Imagination is vital for operating any model railway that is restricted in size.

[philip-griffiths]

12 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Can anyone, perhaps, up the ante by suggesting a layout consisting of four fiddle yards connected by a mesh of turnouts?

Pontllanfraith, Sirhowy valley,  LNWR/LMS - GWR junction. Lots of activity and interchange. 
 

 

[Chimer]

12 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Trent?

 

 

Half-a-dozen fiddle yards...

 

And a return loop ....

[Clive Mortimore]

Wot about Aldgate, Met and GWR trains terminating in the station, Met and District trains on Circle line services, Met trains diverting on the north junction to Aldgate East and the same on the south junction but District trains. And all those scenic breaks.

 

 

 

 

[Schooner]

13 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Can anyone, perhaps, up the ante by suggesting a layout consisting of four fiddle yards connected by a mesh of turnouts?

 

4 hours ago, simon b said:

Of course if you like shuffling wagons around the approaches to Fenchurch street would keep 6 people busy.

 

4 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

shuffling toy trains back and forth on an ironing-board

 

My take on the approach curve to Commercial Road Goods Depot - 2 opposed Inglenooks at the front (does that count as a yard?) with FY-FY running lines behind.

 

5'x2' it's mostly all pointwork! There's a plan on here somewhere, brb...

 

Found it:

Edited July 13, 2023 by Schooner
Pretty sure I've updated the plan since, with track at ground level to show that the hoist descends, but cannae find it just now

[Jeremy Cumberland]

19 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Wot about Aldgate, Met and GWR trains terminating in the station, Met and District trains on Circle line services, Met trains diverting on the north junction to Aldgate East and the same on the south junction but District trains. And all those scenic breaks.

 

 

 

 

I've never much rated Aldgate as a modelling opportunity. You'd have the awkward shape of the layout and all the complexity of running H&C and District trains while hardly being able to see them - there are no open sections to the east.

 

The triangular junction of choice to my mind is Farringdon (although the Aldersgate curve, if you are modelling pre-1920 or so, would be entirely hidden). Mostly out in the open, and such a variety of trains, plus you'd have shunting the Smithfield goods depots for good measure:

 

[JohnR]

22 hours ago, Flying Pig said:

 

Yes, I recognised it straight away.

 

I'm afraid I didnt, although given it appears to be a BRM plan, I presume it has appeared in the magazine at some point? I'm feeling ashamed at not recognising it. 

[Schooner]

1 minute ago, JohnR said:

I'm feeling ashamed at not recognising it. 

i don't think you should - I'm not! Perhaps we'll recognise the name when it's mentioned; perhaps it doesn't matter :)

[Schooner]

6 minutes ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

You'd have the awkward shape of the layout

A terminus at the front to hide tightly curving through lines to make it around the corner behind...? It's a classic! Not as classic as having the terminus stuffed into the corner behind the curve, but still...

[Peter Kazmierczak]

I recall a plan in the Modeller many, many moons ago. It was essentially two (scenic) fiddle yards joined face-to-face. One representing a goods yard and the other a set of carriage sidings. I might have some of the details wrong, but anyone recall it?

 

 

[James Harrison]

5 hours ago, Peter Kazmierczak said:

I recall a plan in the Modeller many, many moons ago. It was essentially two (scenic) fiddle yards joined face-to-face. One representing a goods yard and the other a set of carriage sidings. I might have some of the details wrong, but anyone recall it?

 

 

Lowhead and Stoking Madly, January 1998 RM, built by Brian Pratt? Two stations, face to face, with a very short mainline.  Each station had more sidings than you could shake a stick at. 

[Peter Kazmierczak]

5 minutes ago, James Harrison said:

Lowhead and Stoking Madly, January 1998 RM, built by Brian Pratt? Two stations, face to face, with a very short mainline.  Each station had more sidings than you could shake a stick at. 

Not that one, James. The one I recall was from the late 60s/early 70s.

[James Harrison]

15 minutes ago, Peter Kazmierczak said:

Not that one, James. The one I recall was from the late 60s/early 70s.

Ahh, earlier than my collection goes back then.

[Joseph_Pestell]

11 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

I was thinking of a model railway layout, rather than a complex of real railways, and really it was a bit of a wry musing, prompted by wondering exactly how much appetite for shuffling toy trains back and forth on an ironing-board Minoriesophiles might have.

 

Others have commented on the possible monotony of operation on Minories. I think that even CJF recognised that. But you can only do so much in a very limited space. Parcels, newspapers and specialist goods e.g. fish were all handled during quieter hours at compact city termini and allow some variation on the main diet of suburban passenger trains.

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

Others have commented on the possible monotony of operation on Minories. 

 

Perhaps it is the ideal layout for full automation? It could become quite hypnotic.