cheesysmith Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 I was thinking, and does anyone have pictures of the bogies used under BR coaching stock and units? As far as I can remember, these are the following, any corrections welcome. Mk1-the original coach bogie, developed from the GWR esign, rough riding as it became worn. Mk2-uprated version of above. Mk3-EMU power bogie of above, used by southern region in large numbers. Swing link?-DMU version of the Mk1, 2 different versions, swindon and non swindon? Then about the time of designing the Mk2 coach, someone pointed out the chance for cofusion when using the same term for coaches and bogies, so the designation for bogies was changed to Bxx. B4-designed by swindon, excelent riding, long lived. B5-heavy duty version of above. B6?-EMU motor bogie using the same design as the B4? Then came the iar suspension series. BT10-HST and Mk3 bogie. BX1-used under the PEP EMU family. BT11 and 12-the APT bogies. T4-trailing bogie used by the Mk3 DVT and 158 and 442. P4-powered version of above used by the 158. B5000-inside framed bogie as used by the 220 series of units. So, does anybody have photos of the above, and what were the bogies used under the Mk3 derived units. They had different types depending if they were powered or trailers. Also, what was the designation for the APT powercar bogies? Anybody can fill in the gaps, or correct any mistakes? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
naugytrax Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 How about the Commonwealth bogie? I don't know if that had a Bxx or MKx designation. I thought the B1 bogie was developed from an LMS design, not GWR. Most of the BR Standard designs seemed to have been biased towards LMS practice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmay2002 Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Parkin's book on BR Mk1 coaches says the bogie was based on a GWR design. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Bob Reid Posted August 11, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 11, 2012 Cheesy; Your best bet would be to join Robert Carroll's Yahoo Coaching Stock Group - there's pages and pages on bogie designations - including a excllent PDF file describing the basic variants used not only on loco-hauled stock but also EMU's. As far as the BR series and B4/B5s the follwing are the correct designations. There was no such thing as a B1 bogie as far as the early (swindon designed) BR Mark 1s are concerned - it's a popular myth (not just by enthusiasts but also wrongly by some within BR) not helped by BR having the cast letters BR1 and BR2 on the axleboxes - to designate the difference in axlebox and wheelset/journal sixe between the light and heavy bogies. For a start off here's the correct designations for the BR & B4/B5 Bogies (as used under the Mark 1 Mark 2 Stock); BR Bogie Original Design 8’-6” Single Bolster Bogie 8’-6” Light Double Bolster Bogie 8’-6” Heavy Double Bolster Bogie Mark II 8’-6” Light Double Bolster Bogie 8’-6” Heavy Double Bolster Bogie Mark II for Compensated Brake 8’-6” Light Double Bolster Bogie 8’-6” Heavy Double Bolster Bogie The designation B4 (and B5) was adopted from it's internal Swindon Works designation for the then "new" bogie design. though I do have evidence of a reference to B3s there's absolutely nothing to indicate it was anything other than a prototype that never left the drawing board. anyway, for the B4 & B5 variants; B4 Bogie Mark II Heavy Mark III Light & Heavy Mark IV Light & Heavy Mark V Light & Heavy Mark VI Light & Heavy Mark VII Light & Heavy B5 Bogies All (Light / Medium Light / Medium Heavy/ Heavy) Mark II Mark III Mark IV Mark V Mark VIII Anyway that's just for starters - there's a pile of other bogies types - too many to list here and many of which were experimental types used under loco-hauled stock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted August 11, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 11, 2012 What was the designation of the bogie fitted to the Mk1 profile double deck car carriers built by Newton Chambers? I thought that was a B2 (or maybe BR2)? Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Bob Reid Posted August 11, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 11, 2012 The original bogies were all just designated "BR Bogie" (there were (as shown above) a few variants dependiing on the bolster type (single or double) and the load to be carried - Light (BR1 axleboxes) or heavy (BR2 axleboxes) - The bogies on the Newton-Chambers Car Carriers were so odd (like the rest of the vehicle) they never appear to have got a designation..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Bob Reid Posted August 11, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 11, 2012 How about the Commonwealth bogie? I don't know if that had a Bxx or MKx designation. I thought the B1 bogie was developed from an LMS design, not GWR. Most of the BR Standard designs seemed to have been biased towards LMS practice. Just Commonwealth - or 'CW' when shortened..... The Mark 1s were a BTC led "committee" design - Regional Representatives from all the BR Regional drawing offices and there associated works were given specific responsibility for all the design work (and hence the influences) broken down in "eating elephants" fashion - for example Swindon were responsible for Bogies, Eastleigh for Underframes, Derby for Electrical equipment, Doncaster for interior trim wtc. Hence the reason you got the former regional influences - ex-LMS based electrical equipment, WR biased bogies, SR underframes and so on..... The Mark 2s were an entirely different beast. All of the initial work (on the 2 & 2a and 2b's) was done by Swindon, the later builds (following the closure of the Swindon office) was done by Derby, as with the Mk 3 builds. [late edit] Swindon still had an influence on the design at Derby. Many of the Swindon staff went to work there following the closure of their office! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
naugytrax Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Interesting information, gentlemen. I had no idea that the original BR bogies were designed by Swindon. But who designed the "Commonwealth" type, then? Were they imported from North America, or inspired by an American original, like certain other Swindon ideas? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Bob Reid Posted August 11, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 11, 2012 Designed by the General Steel Casting Corporation, Eddystone. Amongst the US steel plants taken over by General Steel was The Commonwealth Steel Company whose "Commonwealth" foundry produced the original design at Granite City Illinois. Eddystone had been the location of the original General Steel Castings headquarters. The main bogie cast frame members were manufactured under licence in the UK by the English Steel Castings Corporation in Sheffield. Assembly was by BR Workshops (I'm sure Swindon were the lead workshops for the design & manufacture of the other bogie components). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesysmith Posted August 12, 2012 Author Share Posted August 12, 2012 So what was the designation for the motor. Bogies used under the 4epb Another one is the lner bogie used under the mk1 ac emu. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted August 12, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 12, 2012 Some of the Mk1 derived AC emu's had Gresley (LNER) bogies. Cheers. Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesysmith Posted August 12, 2012 Author Share Posted August 12, 2012 Were they gresleys or tompson? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Bob Reid Posted August 12, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 12, 2012 I'm sure someone with an answer to the EMU bogies will come along shortly (The Scottish Region CM&EE's powers didn't extend as far as West Croydon) - they'll be somewhere between Mk I and Mk IV but I haven't a clue! (except that some Mk 1 SK's were equipped with bogies pretty much identical to Mk I EMU trailer bogies.....) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Some of the Mk1 derived AC emu's had Gresley (LNER) bogies. Were they gresleys or tompson? I was given to understand that the AMx bogies (although I only remember sampling the LMR's AM4s) were single bolster versions of the Gresley Bogie and a b...... awful ride they gave too, especially vertically - they could nearly bounce you off your seat. I don't think many ECML passengers would have appreciated the ride of those things at 90-100 MPH if fitted to loco-hauled stock. Possibly coach bogie design was one area which did not 'interest' Mr. Thompson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted August 12, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 12, 2012 I don't think many ECML passengers would have appreciated the ride of those things at 90-100 MPH if fitted to loco-hauled stock. you're probably right about the single-bolster versions but (presumably) double-bolster versions were fitted to RU vehicles in the 70s in an attempt to improve on the bad riding of the existing bogies (heavy-duty BR bogie with BR2 axleboxes)! btw i think the single-bolster BR bogie was used under the non-corridor mk1s Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 I seem to recall reading somewhere that thompson bogies were fitted, at one or both ends, as a temporary measure to (some) MK1 RU's to overcome rough riding occasioned by the extra weight, when compared with a normal MK1, of the Kitchen section. Is this the case ? Any pics or numbers out there ? Thanks in advance. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted January 25, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2013 not heard of thomsons being used, only gresley and i think they were heavy-duty at both ends example http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/4487366725/in/set-72157603653607671 the heavy-duty version being identifiable by the two rows of rivets above the axlebox. platform 5 1979 book has E1936/7 still with them, any others have either been withdrawn or re-bogied. i don't know how many were originally treated unfortuneately. rebogied RB/RU/RBRs either received commonwealth bogies or a B4 (saloon end) and B5 (kitchen end) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Fisher Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 302, 303, 304, 305, 307, until rebogied and 308 306 and 506 being LNER heritage and not sure to be honest what they had, more like a dmu/gw style bogie. Edited to correct typo 504 aint lner heritage! Ian Some of the Mk1 derived AC emu's had Gresley (LNER) bogies. Cheers. Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 example http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/4487366725/in/set-72157603653607671 the heavy-duty version being identifiable by the two rows of rivets above the axlebox. platform 5 1979 book has E1936/7 still with them.......... Thanks Keefer, As soon as I saw the pic - I remembered I'd seen that self same one somewhere before - just couldn't remember where. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted January 25, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2013 302, 303, 304, 305, 307, until rebogied and 308 306 and 504 being LNER heritage and not sure to be honest what they had, more like a dmu/gw style bogie. Ian the 504s had gresley bogies, it was the 506s that had a more 'conventional' looking single-bolster bogie - possibly the same type as the 306s as they were of a similar design? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Fisher Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Ta Keefer, Typo on my original post a 306 and 506 are I think we would find are the same arrangement, just built for different areas. Ian the 504s had gresley bogies, it was the 506s that had a more 'conventional' looking single-bolster bogie - possibly the same type as the 306s as they were of a similar design? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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