Hornby castle arriving?

[7013]

Loking good Nidge I must get round to weathering my Castles a bit, I dont like to do too much as when in their prime they were kept pretty clean.

[Rugd1022]

Greetings, Rugd1022.

 

May I ask how accurate you wish to be with your renaming?

 

Regards,

BR(W).

 

 

 

Sorry BR(W), just missed your post whilst replying to Mikes.... well, I've been pawing over the books all weekend and I want to pick one that matches the model as supplied without resorting to moving the lubricator that sits behind the steam pipe on the driver's side, also taking into account the inside cylinder cover style and double chimney etc. Might seem a bit fussy I know, but part of the satisfaction for me is getting it as near 'spot on' as possible. I'll probably plump for 7004 Eastnor Castle, I seem to have more good photos of this one than any others.

 

 

Edit - thanks 7013, just picked up on your two posts!

[BR(W)]

Sorry BR(W), just missed your post whilst replying to Mikes.... well, I've been pawing over the books all weekend and I want to pick one that matches the model as supplied without resorting to moving the lubricator that sits behind the steam pipe on the driver's side, also taking into account the inside cylinder cover style and double chimney etc. Might seem a bit fussy I know, but part of the satisfaction for me is getting it as near 'spot on' as possible. I'll probably plump for 7004 Eastnor Castle, I seem to have more good photos of this one than any others.

 

Greetings, Rugd1022.

 

So glad you want to be as accurate as possible.

 

7004 is a good choice (along with 7019 which lasted, if only nominally, to 1965 a year later than 7004), being post-war with Collett tender and forward-mounted lubricator - incidentally, 7034 never carried her lubricator in this position!

 

5060 had the pre-war cab grabrail (straight, not curved) and the large, pre-5067 cab spectacle windows (there were but few exceptions). 7014 had a Davies and Metcalfe lubricator (like 7013) with a reservoir tank on the side of the smokebox.

 

I would advise applying the etched nameplates over the existing printed ones; after all, they were never flush with the fascia, but with the splasher beading, if you follow. If you carefully drill three or four holes along the printed plate, any excess glue or varnish will be expelled through these, giving the replacements good grip and ensuring that they lie nice and flat.

 

Good luck; she's a beaut!

 

BR(W).

[Rugd1022]

Greetings, Rugd1022.

 

So glad you want to be as accurate as possible.

 

7004 is a good choice (along with 7019 which lasted, if only nominally, to 1965 a year later than 7004), being post-war with Collett tender and forward-mounted lubricator - incidentally, 7034 never carried her lubricator in this position!

 

5060 had the pre-war cab grabrail (straight, not curved) and the large, pre-5067 cab spectacle windows (there were but few exceptions). 7014 had a Davies and Metcalfe lubricator (like 7013) with a reservoir tank on the side of the smokebox.

 

I would advise applying the etched nameplates over the existing printed ones; after all, they were never flush with the fascia, but with the splasher beading, if you follow. If you carefully drill three or four holes along the printed plate, any excess glue or varnish will be expelled through these, giving the replacements good grip and ensuring that they lie nice and flat.

 

Good luck; she's a beaut!

 

BR(W).

 

Many thanks for that BR(W)

 

Since my job was cancelled at the last minute last night due to a derailment at Mountsorrel, instead of going straight to bed like any normal person, I thought I'd stay up and do some more reseach! Originally I was just going to leave it as 7034 but noticed the lack of forward lubricator (as you point out) in every single photo I found of it, then three photos turned up of 7004. However, looking at Peter Gray's colour album 'Steam On West Of England Mainlines' I was tempted by his shot of 5092 Tresco Abbey looking quite grubby at Taunton in August '62... I can't quite make out which style of handrail it has on the cabside though, typical! It looks like it has all the other ingredients though, lubricator, double chimney etc. Having said that, the name of 7019 appeals for it's Cornish connection, ie: Fowey Castle. Decisions, decisions...

 

Thanks for the tip regarding fitting the plates. I'm still puzzled as to why Hornby decided to make the centre splasher the way they did, with plate attached but minus the beading of the other splashers... oh well!

[Taz]

Tresco Abbey was one of the rebuilt Stars so would have the narrower front frames. I don't know if it would be possible to modify the Hornby model to represent this?

[craigwelsh]

Tresco Abbey was one of the rebuilt Stars so would have the narrower front frames. I don't know if it would be possible to modify the Hornby model to represent this?

Did it retain these into the early '60s though? Many castles had new cylinders and front frame extensions to a later pattern.

 

Looks like a later type

[Taz]

I honestly don't know Craig, but would like to find out (I have fond memories of holidays to the Isle of Scilly when younger and wouldn't mind modelling Tresco Abbey).

 

Pehaps someone more knowledgable will be forthcomming with the answer

 

EDIT: Just seen your photo link. You could be right. I wonder when she was modified then? I would model her as she would have been in the Summer of 1960 with single chimney and Hawksworth tender.

[The Stationmaster]

Did it retain these into the early '60s though? Many castles had new cylinders and front frame extensions to a later pattern.

 

Looks like a later type

http://www.flickr.co...eave/386412272/

 

The front end has definitely undergone changes from its earlier condition judging by that pic; photos show that the following had changed at sometime: -

it has the later pattern of plating above the inside cylinders, it has parallel buffer housings instead of the taper pattern it carried earlier, it has the later pattern of outside steampipes as well as the obvious change to the 4 row superheater and double chimney plus mechanical lubricator. But whether any of that means that the front end of the frames was renewed is another matter.

[7013]

Yes' Ince' carried her lubricating gear behind the down pipe in her later guise with double chimney not in front as in the Hornby model. The Hornby moulding is very nice and I wonder how easy it would be to remove it and reposition it if one wanted a correct 'Ince'.

[BR(W)]

Did it retain these into the early '60s though? Many castles had new cylinders and front frame extensions to a later pattern.

 

Looks like a later type

http://www.flickr.co...eave/386412272/

 

Greetings.

 

5092 retained inset frames to the end. She was one of two such 'all mod cons.' locos that I know of (the other was 4074): you can tell by counting the rivets at the top of the drop plate, where it joins the running plate. Such locos with inset frames had six per side, straight frames had five. These are the rivets that Hornby have missed completely.

 

Also, the rivets at the outer ends of the bufferbeams differed. Originally, all 'Vauxhall' pattern locos (ie new-builds up to 5012 and 4000 and 111 rebuilds) had five; box pattern locos (ie new-builds from 5013) had six. The disposition of these bufferbeam rivets could change, however, at overhauls.

 

Cab grabrails are simple. All pre-war 4073s (ie up to 5097) had the straight, horizontal ones. All post-war locos (ie from 5098) had the curved pattern. There were no exceptions, as the later type (curved) were not retro-fitted.

 

To model 5092, you would also need to re-route the ATC conduit. If anyone wants details, give me a shout. I've rambled for too long, I think.

 

Regards,

 

BR(W).

[Taz]

Thanks BR(W).

That is useful information.

[westerner]

I toyed with Powis Castle (old oak Common) but I think I'll settle on Caerhays Castle(Bristol)

[BR(W)]

I toyed with Powis Castle (old oak Common) but I think I'll settle on Caerhays Castle(Bristol)

 

Hello, Westerner.

 

For 7014, you will, as I mentioned above, have to model the Davies and Metcalfe lubricator with the reservoir tank on the smokebox. '7013' has done this very nicely, and if he will allow, may I suggest you look at his post #316 on p13 of this thread?

 

As with all 4073s so equipped (4087, 4088, 5084, 7013 [actually 4082, of course] and 7014), the work was done at the same time as fitting the 4-row boiler and double chimney (in the case of 7014, early 1959).

 

Incidentally, both 7024 and 7014 were members of the exclusive 'double-chimney flying machines' club of Wolverhampton Stafford Road, 7024 joining in 1961, 7014 a year later. The two-hour Birmingham schedule was undoubtedly the most arduous steam diagram in the country at the time, and when a 6000 was not available, one of the double-chimney 4073s was used.

 

Regards,

 

BR(W).

[Rugd1022]

Please BR(W), feel free to ramble on, this is all fascinating to stuff - more pwer to your elbow

 

So much for Tresco Abbey then! 7019 seems to fit the bill for me at this stage, the loco is nearly finished, just the coal, fire irons, lamps and etched plates to go and she's a good 'un. I think the next one I have will be a 50xx series beast, possibly with a Hawksworth tender.

 

I knew I should have bought 'Book Of The Castles' first...!

[westerner]

Thanks for that BR(W) perhaps I'll go for Powis Castle, I could do woith an Old Oak loco on the layout.

[Taz]

Please BR(W), feel free to ramble on, this is all fascinating to stuff - more pwer to your elbow

 

 

Indeed, please do carry on. This is all really useful information to anyone thinking about changing the identity of their Castles.

 

So which bit is the ATC conduit and how did it differ between locos?

[The Stationmaster]

Indeed, please do carry on. This is all really useful information to anyone thinking about changing the identity of their Castles.

 

So which bit is the ATC conduit and how did it differ between locos?

 

Look at your 'Earl Cairns' (pic early in this thread I seem to recall) and you will see what looks like a small pipe running along the footplate angle on the right hand side of the loco - it comes out over the bogie and runs back to the cab area. That's the conduit for the ATC wiring, and without checking what happens at the cab end, it largely matches the position of the conduit on the real 5053.

[BR(W)]

Indeed, please do carry on. This is all really useful information to anyone thinking about changing the identity of their Castles.

 

So which bit is the ATC conduit and how did it differ between locos?

 

Hello, Taz, Rugd1022 (and anybody else that will listen).

 

The 4073s had two configurations of ATC conduit, and, for a change, it's dead simple! All 4000, 4001 and 111 rebuilds (ie 'North Star', 'Stars' [100A1, 4016, 4032, 4037 and the 'Abbeys', 5083 to 5092 inc.] and 'Great Bear'), and all new-builds up to 5022 (ie 4073 to 5022 inc.), had the conduit routed internally from the ATC shoe at the front end. It emerged into the daylight in front of the middle, right-hand splasher and continued to the cab on top of the running-plate, snuggling up to the vertical surfaces on the way.

 

All other members of the class, that is new-builds from 5023, the 1934 'Zeiss' batch et seq (ie 5023 to 5082, inc. and 5093 to 7037, inc.), had the conduit clipped to the right-hand running-plate valance. I say 'new builds' because the last batch of '4001s', the 'Abbeys' (4063 to 4072 inc.), were, of course, rebuilt between 1937 and 1940 as 4073s (5083 to 5092 inc.), and the new configuration of ATC conduit was never applied to any of the rebuilds, not even the 'Abbeys'.

 

So, Hornby's 7034 "Ince Castle" and 5068 "Beverston Castle", for example, have the conduit beautifully represented clipped to the valance; their 5011 "Tintagel Castle" has, correctly, no such detail.

 

There was one exception to this rule which was nothing to do with GW or WR operations: it was due to BR's (really the BTC's) political subterfuge on the death of King George VI. His funeral train was to be pulled by 4082 "Windsor Castle", a loco that his father had driven, and which carried plaques to this effect. Sadly, 4082 was being shopped at the time, so the decision was made to substitute a run-in loco to pull the train, and to pretend that she was the loco with the intimate and legitimate royal connections: the almost twenty-eight year old 4082 (internal ATC conduit, 2-row s/h, 'Vauxhall' front end). Amazingly, three-and-a-half year old 7013 "Bristol Castle" (external ATC conduit, 3-row s/h, 'box' front end) was chosen to be the imposter and the name and number plates, plus plaques, were duly swapped.

 

It is difficult to imagine two locos more different from each other at the time! Unsurpisingly, the subterfuge was quickly spotted, creating a bit of a 'disgusted of Tunbridge Wells' furore in the press and the plaques were quietly removed, but the plates and thus identities were never swapped back. So, from February 1952 until they were withdrawn, 4082 (ostensibly built 1924) was really 7013 (built 1948), and vice versa, meaning that from 1952 onwards, 4082 had the seemingly incongruous, external ATC conduit and curved cab grabrails and 7013 had the similarly incongruous internal ATC conduit and straight grabrails.

 

Whilst I'm in full spate, I'll just mention the one '4073' that can not be represented by any RTR model - not even Hornby's. It is [drumroll] the classic, beautiful 4000, "North Star", originally the four-cylinder prototype number 40 of 1906. She always retained the original, higher running-plate with consequently smaller splashers, running-plate top surface flush with that of the inside cylinder casing, and outside steam chests not cutting into the running-plate valance. To my eyes, this 2.5 inches made all the difference; she had an aesthetic purity which made her the most beautiful of a stunningly beautiful class. She was withdrawn in 1957 and, after a career of faultless, top-link service spanning fifty-one years, and running over two million miles from experimental, scissors valve-geared Atlantic, to mainstream, walschaerts 4-6-0, she was, tragically, scrapped: the spiteful, anti-GWR buffoons at the BTC ignoring her historic significance. Still, I suppose it takes an engineer or artist, not a pen-pushing bureaucrat, to appreciate these things.

 

Regards,

 

BR(W).

[Guardian]

Hi,

 

after having waited a long time for my GWR Castle, it arrived. But having unpacked it from the box, the right hand sides of boiler and smokebox offered some bad surprise:

 

 

 

 

These whitely "clouds" are not only superficial dirt but under the varnish. Has anybody else made a similar same experience?

[Pete Piszczek]

These whitely "clouds" are not only superficial dirt but under the varnish. Has anybody else made a similar same experience?

 

It almost looks like the fogging that will occur when cyanoacrylate evaporates. I wonder if the model has had some pieces reattached, then was placed back into the packaging before the glue had fully cured?

 

 

 

[Barry Ten]

Hi,

 

These whitely "clouds" are not only superficial dirt but under the varnish. Has anybody else made a similar same experience?

 

 

I mentioned white residue in my post of August 23 last year, though nowhere near as bad as your example. I agree with Pete that it looks very much like cyano-acrylate staining.

[BR(W)]

Hi,

 

after having waited a long time for my GWR Castle, it arrived. But having unpacked it from the box, the right hand sides of boiler and smokebox offered some bad surprise:

 

(Image)

 

These whitely "clouds" are not only superficial dirt but under the varnish. Has anybody else made a similar same experience?

 

Greetings, Guardian.

 

It looks as if the ejector exhaust has been attached/reattached with cyano., or similar, as the resultant 'fogging' only occurs in areas around the stanchions for the pipe. As others have conjectured, it has then been packed almost immediately so that the fumes can not dissipate. This would imply to me that the work was done at the final inspection stage, or as part of a rework function here in Blighty possibly following a customer return.

 

So, in what condition was the tissue enfolding the loco, may I ask? I have had a similar experience (footsteps glued at a crazy angle, a bent handrail with snapped stanchions and the wrong tender), and the tissue was not just perfunctorily replaced, but it was dirty, to boot. Just as if the same fingers that had been fiddling with mechanisms (and trying to straighten handrails), gaining a grey, oily patina to the skin in the process, had also unwrapped and later rewrapped the tissue.

 

I think that Hornby need to review both their quality control and what they sell as 'new'; to me, such items are most definitely 'seconds', or whichever euphemism you choose. It is in any company's interests to get things 'right first time', for there are significant direct costs associated with reworking faulty items, as well as indirect ones accruing from reputational damage done by duds that slip through, or the marketing of shoddy reworks. As Hornby have produced such a marvellous model, all this is a crying shame.

 

Sympathetic regards,

 

BR(W).

[rprodgers]

Hi Guardian

 

A big disappointment to see the fault you have with this model which youve been waiting for so long.

 

I hope a replacement can quickly be sourced for you!

 

A downside of this beautiful and very detailed model is how easy it is to break/ lose items.

 

I have brokem/ lost the smoke door dart and am trying to source a suitable "finescale" brass replacement

 

R

[Barry Ten]

 

I have brokem/ lost the smoke door dart and am trying to source a suitable "finescale" brass replacement

 

R

 

Mainly Trains do a nice smokebox dart which is easy to fit.

[gwrrob]

A bump up for this topic but also a heads up on another BR liveried Castle thats available as a split from the 'A date with the duchy' pack.Its R2986B and is 7038 Taunton Castle.Its described as being late crest but model has the early one. £99. Thats quite a few BR castles now compared to the one in GWR livery.

 

http://www.modelfair.com/acatalog/Hornby_00_Gauge_Steam_Locomotives.html