RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted August 21, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 21, 2012 A few years later than Beast's photo of the 08 at Robert Smith's yard, I was responsible for an office block in Gateshead (Tyneside) which housed their regional office; on the wall of the reception area was a wide angle shot of the junction, with a rake of SPAs awaiting unloading. Presumably these were carrying steel plate for one of the local yards. I'm curious about the Bogie Bolsters in Beast's photo- they seem to be departing with lengths of steel re-bar on them. Did Smith's normally send anything out by rail? I remember seeing bolsters under the gantry, loaded but whether they had arrived for unloading, or were waiting to leave I can't say - perhaps Keith (FlyingSignalman) can - he was the signalman at Canning Street for a while. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 fine example of one of Ian Krause's 1960s shots is near the bottom of this page.. http://www.miol.it/s...RigheI=30&Col=3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium DavidLong Posted August 21, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 21, 2012 I am surprised no one has mentioned http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html you should be able to see the track layouts as they alter. Paul Bartlett Unfortunately the old-maps site is less useful than it used to be as the enhanced zoom facility has been withdrawn. It still appears in the instructions of how to use the site but it is not operational. I have sent four emails to them to ask if it is a temporary withdrawal but have had no reply. I assume that they got fed up of people just using the site to noodle around without buying any maps. Quite within their rights as a commercial organisation but a shame nonetheless. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Looking at the 1978-1991 map covering Canning Street signal box it shows the line as being single, which is not the case, it's still double over the crossing today. I think the (railway) map for this period should be taken with a big pinch of salt. Edit - looking again, the map depicts all railway as a single line, be it double or single, although the Mersey double line does seem to be thicker, which means crossovers and connections are omitted / possibly inaccurate. Doesn't this vary according to which date and scale of map you are looking at. I wasn't suggesting that it had to be used for free, the OP seems genuinely interested and maps are expensive. At least this website permits choice of which map is wanted - perhaps more accurately and a great deal easier than having to buy several large scale OS maps all produced to a standard layout and then pasting them together. Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted August 21, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 21, 2012 Doesn't this vary according to which date and scale of map you are looking at. Quite possibly but given his date range, the 1926 maps, for example, would be totally US Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadie73 Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 Thanks again to all who are ading information to this topic... Michael - I found the penmorfa site via google images - it's one of the ones I'm using to try and piece everything together.. Paul - I have looked at old-maps, but from what I can see, picking any of the most relevant maps brings up what is essentially the same map - showing a relatively vast quantity of track at Cavendish Sidings / Duke St., without showing the progression / rationalization I'm looking for - assuming I'm not missing something. That being said, it's something I'll think about, but I'm going to try and cobble something together first. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingsignalman Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 I've been looking but a sketch I drew of the Duke St area remains resolutely hidden. I did remember that I had a 25" - 1 mile OS plan for the area (bought in the days when 1km square cos £1.10 and 2 x 1km squares cost about £1.75!) so I've done this very quick sketch based on the crossing at Duke St and including as much as I could fit towards Canning St but not getting fully past Vittoria Dock warehouses. The survey date is 2/1968. The running lines (as opposed to sidings) have > or < at their ends. Birkenhead North is to the left, Canning St North to the left and over Duke St bridge to Wallasey to the top. Regarding traffic to and from Robert Smiths siding at Shore Road; early outwards traffic was reinforcing rods from Bidston Rolling Mill to Scotland for oil rig construction. This ceased when the Mill was taken over by a South Wales firm who then promptly closed the mill down. Inwards traffic was steel plate. Cammell Lairds used to receive steel via their own siding and when it was removed Ca 1981 a lot of it then went to Smith's for transfer to lorry for the last mile or so of it's journey. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingsignalman Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Another gratuitous pic 03 196 standing at Duke St on 31/3/1982, the loco carries the unofficial name "Joyce" in the small red box on the 2nd from front panel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 interesting shot from 1924 http://www.ssplprints.com/image/220929/goods-warehouse-at-birkenhead-docks-merseyside-c-1924 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted August 23, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 23, 2012 interesting shot from 1924 http://www.ssplprint...rseyside-c-1924 Canning Street North to the right for those who don't recognise the area. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 What's Up, Dock? by Feversham Lens, on Flickr Birkenhead by Kerry Parker (KP), on Flickr 47 379 Total Energy Canning Street North crossing Birkenhead docklands Autumn 1986 by nocturnaljournal95, on Flickr 47 578 The Royal Society of Edinburgh at Birkenhead Canning Street by nocturnaljournal95, on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 ive seen footage of wrong line running in this area, or was it? was the dockboard mainline like the Liverpool one, bi directional? 47379 above looks like its running wrong line Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted August 25, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 25, 2012 ive seen footage of wrong line running in this area, or was it? was the dockboard mainline like the Liverpool one, bi directional? 47379 above looks like its running wrong line As far as I remember trains were supposed to approach Canning Street on the right line, there were no signals for wrong line running (in that direction, the LNWR miniature arm signal allowed wrong line running in the opposite direction), presumably there were engineering works of some kind on at the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingsignalman Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 ive seen footage of wrong line running in this area, or was it? was the dockboard mainline like the Liverpool one, bi directional? 47379 above looks like its running wrong line Single line working over the dock lines to Birkenhead North No2 could be introduced between a variety of crossover roads as required. All that was needed was a clear understanding between the various parties involved (Canning St Signalman, the Superviser and Shunters at Duke St and Birkenhead North No2 Signalman). However there were quite a few locos that became victims of that "clear understanding". At an inquiry, after one incident involving 2 x 2 class 24/25 locos coupled meeting head on between Duke St and Birkenhead North, the Driver of one of the locos was asked "What steps did you take when you saw the other 2 locos coming towards you?" to which he replied "Bl***y big ones, straight out of the cab!" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted August 25, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 25, 2012 A "clear understanding" - like clipping the points for a special ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 on the "Steam on the Wirral" video there is footage of loco's including 9f's running wrong line around the tighter curve at Canning st north heading up towards Mollington st, I think they then cross over to normal running before passing under the road bridge. reason I asked is I think Canning st is the boundary between BR and the dockboard lines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingsignalman Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Some pics of Wabana stabled but coupled to some grain wagons at Duke St taken on 26/7/1981. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merfyn Jones Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 A few from late 70s rail tours of the docks added to my flickr site yesterday. These may be of interest. http://www.flickr.com/photos/merf29/page4/ Merf. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Pannier Tank Posted September 17, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 17, 2012 Found this interesting website of Birkenhead Docks http://www.penmorfa.com/Mersey%20trains/page%207.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingsignalman Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 A few more pics, this time dated 28/11/1986. On the Canning St North side of Duke St. On the Birkenhead North side of Duke St. The last was taken on the Wallasey side of the West float by warehouses used by GTS storage. They also used to receive bogie vans (usually singly) tripped from Shellstar/Kemira at West Cheshire Jcn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadie73 Posted September 28, 2012 Author Share Posted September 28, 2012 Fantastic photos Keith - thank you for sharing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinklein Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 found this collection of pics of the area today, hope you haven`t already seen them all! http://www.flickriver.com/groups/1068263@N25/pool/interesting/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 I've put some of my Birkenhead dock photos - mostly wagons - into this collection http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/birkenheaddocks Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 found this collection of pics of the area today, hope you haven`t already seen them all! http://www.flickriver.com/groups/1068263@N25/pool/interesting/ It is nice to see a picture of a pair of Minibulks (refurbished and air braked grains) where they were modified to work! Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
class"66" Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 More interesting pictures of Canning street north box, and the diesel locos i use to see passing through bromborough station as kid... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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