DC vs. DCC

[John K]

Have a look at Mr Gartner's pages and Mr Lambert's pages - I think most of your questions will be answered.

http://www.wiringfordcc.com

http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/DCC.htm

Best,

John

[Guest]

Have a look at Mr Gartner's pages and Mr Lambert's pages - I think most of your questions will be answered.

http://www.wiringfordcc.com

http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/DCC.htm

Best,

John

 

Thanks John, yes I have seen both those pages before but they just seem so confusing and daunting.

 

What I really want to know is do you have to wire a point for DCC to work?

 

 

Oli

[Suzie]

Dead frog usually yes, live frog usually no. Depends a bit on the make.

[blueeighties]

 

 

Thanks John, yes I have seen both those pages before but they just seem so confusing and daunting.

 

What I really want to know is do you have to wire a point for DCC to work?

 

 

Oli

 

If you take a little bit of time to read and digest the excellent information on those websites, all the answers to your questions are within.

I am one of those sadists who actually enjoy wiring, but when I commenced construction of my layout, I went DCC, (with an NCE Powercab), and have never looked back.

It's not really a case of the feature count, for me its the prototypical operation it offers. I have been running mine for about 2 Years now, and I am ready to upgrade to the next unit up, not for more bells and whistles, but to grow with my layout and enhance the operation further. I have a separate panel for my points, normal analogue control, my points are all livefrog. To be honest, its immaterial if you ask me as to weather a particular system will save a few wires and a bit of labour, good wiring is required for any system, there are no shortcuts, and it needs to be done properly to ensure reliable operation.

I am now coming up to 2 Years plus of baseboards, track and wiring, but I am so glad I have taken my time and done it all properly, the smooth running and fun of operation ensure that.

 

Good luck,

 

Lee.

 

[Guest]

Dead frog usually yes, live frog usually no. Depends a bit on the make.

 

I would be using Peco points all round. There will be dead frog setrack points in the fiddle yard and medium radius livefrog on the scenic. If you didn't wire a livefrog point are you relying on the blades for conduction of electricity...?

 

 

Oli.

[Removed a/c]

Hi Oli,

 

Thought I would add my 2 penn'orth here as I am also a newbie to the world of DCC. (Although I model in OO)

 

I received a Bachmann Dynamis starter set for Christmas last year. I added some other bits of track and plonked it on a 4x* sheet of wood and my layout currently is very similar to yours. All my points are PECO insulfrog, and all I did was add the little clips by Hornby on each side as recommended. I believe you could also use staples. Now I have nothing ballasted yet or even nailed down but everything has been performing perfectly since December of last year and I am happy with what I have for now. It gives me the opportunity to run my trains without to much electrical knowledge. I know it isn't Lime Street but it never will be and that isn't really my goal.

 

I guess it depends on what you are looking to get out of it which will be the ultimate decision. All I am saying is it doesn't have to be that complicated.

 

Hope that helps

 

Scott

 

[Suzie]

If you didn't wire a livefrog point are you relying on the blades for conduction of electricity...?

 

Yes, and if you don't insulate dead frogs you are likely to get shorting together of the frog rails by stock with wide tyres or unflanged wheels. Not sure how much of a problem this is with 9mm track, but it is a problem with 16.5mm Peco dead frogs.

[newbryford]

the only thing I am unsure about is all this CV stuff

 

For the vast majority of DCC decoders/installations, the only CV you'll need to change is the address (CV1) Other CV's that may need tweaking are acceleration/deceleration/top speed/starting voltage - as yet, I've never altered the last two on any of my fleet.

It's only when you get a bit deeper into DCC that you may want to play with CV's that control function ouputs fpr example, but even then, it's not something I regularly do.

 

If you're using regularly available decoders, they have the option to do a reset back to the factory settings, so there's no need to worry about screwing the CV's up. As long as the decoders are NMRA compliant, they should work with any NMRA system - for example Lenz decoders will work with NCE controllers.

 

Start slowly, but most of all, have fun.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[shibushe]

Oli. I am not going to add much to whats already been said, as most of it is sound advise. Just a couple of notes.

How are you going to operate your points. If you intend to fit DCC ready point motors like Cobalt or TT 300s & the like then reckon on £12 to 20 each. Peco will cause you headache, so many wires. ZTC are a pain in the xxxx.

Non of my live frog points are modified, straight from the box. but then I have no short wheelbase locos.

Dont worry about all the wiring it is very easy once you grasp the method.

Like all if us who decided to go DCC, (I do not regret that decision) Its a learning curve to understand not only the terminology, but what it all means. Bit like driving a car, suddeny it all becomes clear.

For instance. Suppose you can stand in the middle of your layout, any rail ( not Track) farthest away from you is Track North or Positive, or Black, whatever you want. Those rails are fed from Bus feed known as North, The rails nerest to you are South and fed from Bus feed South, these bus feeds connect to your controler that will be marked what goes where. The two wires from the bus to rails whatever colour you choose, Say Black & Red. Must never be used for any other wiring on the layout.

Are you any where near Herfordshire ? I would be more than happy for you to come and play, and see what its all about. Tea or Coffee, one lump or two.

[Guest]

For the vast majority of DCC decoders/installations, the only CV you'll need to change is the address (CV1) Other CV's that may need tweaking are acceleration/deceleration/top speed/starting voltage - as yet, I've never altered the last two on any of my fleet.

It's only when you get a bit deeper into DCC that you may want to play with CV's that control function ouputs fpr example, but even then, it's not something I regularly do.

 

If you're using regularly available decoders, they have the option to do a reset back to the factory settings, so there's no need to worry about screwing the CV's up. As long as the decoders are NMRA compliant, they should work with any NMRA system - for example Lenz decoders will work with NCE controllers.

 

Start slowly, but most of all, have fun.

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

Ah thanks very much for that Mike, that has cleared it up. So CV's are basically just custom settings? You can change them accordingly...

 

 

Thanks very much, Oli.

[Guest]

How are you going to operate your points. If you intend to fit DCC ready point motors like Cobalt or TT 300s & the like then reckon on £12 to 20 each. Peco will cause you headache, so many wires. ZTC are a pain in the xxxx.

Non of my live frog points are modified, straight from the box. but then I have no short wheelbase locos.

 

My points are going to be hand operated because the layout is only 2ft wide and I don't want to add even more wiring by having point motors so they aren't a concern.

 

So you don't do anything to your live frog points? Does that mean you are relying purely on the contact between rails... surely with weathering, gluing and just general useage the conductivity would decrease...

 

Like all if us who decided to go DCC, (I do not regret that decision) Its a learning curve to understand not only the terminology, but what it all means. Bit like driving a car, suddeny it all becomes clear.

 

I am glad you didn't regret going DCC - what DCC system have you got? Aha I wouldn't know about that last bit - I am only 15!

 

For instance. Suppose you can stand in the middle of your layout, any rail ( not Track) farthest away from you is Track North or Positive, or Black, whatever you want. Those rails are fed from Bus feed known as North, The rails nerest to you are South and fed from Bus feed South, these bus feeds connect to your controler that will be marked what goes where. The two wires from the bus to rails whatever colour you choose, Say Black & Red. Must never be used for any other wiring on the layout.

 

Thanks for that, makes things a little clearer - hopefully my dad will help me wire the layout, he knows a thing or to about electrics (I hope so anyway!)

 

Are you any where near Herfordshire ? I would be more than happy for you to come and play, and see what its all about. Tea or Coffee, one lump or two.

 

No sorry I live in Northamptonshire, but thanks very much for the offer - very kind. I am going to my local model shop tomorrow to try out some control systems - hopefully they will have the NCE PowerCab...

 

 

 

Thanks again, Oli

[Sunnysa]

I don't rate it that highly There are some aspects of its workings which I find infuriating.

I do understand why other people like it.

 

 

With your earlier comments on the entry price Zimo decoder; they are probably too large for many N locos, so the price point ends up at CT or Zimo small decoders, nearer to £25-£32 as the top performing decoders. I'd pay that rather than accept significantly worse running from other makers, including some who charge more than Zimo and CT for their decoders. But, for the original poster, if the total system budget is £150, its not going to get many decoders and running on analogue may be a better idea.

 

 

Ian - Decoder performance with very small motors used in N gauge is different to that in OO/HO models. Decoders which work well in OO can be very poor in N or 2mm finescale. I tested a load of decoders on my own locos and can see the differences. I spent some time trying to tweak CV values to get optimum running out of all of the decoders. With my locos the testing resulted in: CT first, Zimo very close second, significant drop to analogue third (Pentroller), fourth and significantly worse than analogue were Lenz, then TCS and Digitrax. If I put some of the decoders which were poor in N onto smaller OO models, then they perform much better and differences in performance between decoder makers was smaller.

 

- Nigel

 

I certainly don't wish to start a which decoder is best flame war. I believe we use what we like.

 

I have couple of N scale modeling friends that use TCS M series and Z2 chips ( the smallest I have seen) also small Lenz chips and love them.

 

They have also been know'n to use small DCCconcepts chips.

 

I agree about Digitrax.

 

Cheers

 

Ian

[Nigelcliffe]

I certainly don't wish to start a which decoder is best flame war. I believe we use what we like.

 

I have couple of N scale modeling friends that use TCS M series and Z2 chips ( the smallest I have seen) also small Lenz chips and love them.

 

They have also been know'n to use small DCCconcepts chips.

 

 

Ian,

if your friends are happy, that is good. My results were from testing my locos.

 

 

I've seen suggestions that TCS considered their Z2 to be the smallest chip available - they must have a sense of humour. All dimensions from makers websites, though the size of wires emerging from the decoder can be more important than decoder size. I know people who replace the decoder wires with single strand enamelled wire because of space constraints.

TCS Z2 is 12.95 x 6.65 x 2.79 mm = 240.3 cubic mm.

Zimo MX621 12 x 8.5 x 2.2 = 224.4 cubic mm

Lenz Silver+ 10.6 x 7.5 x 2.6 = 206.7 cubic mm

CT DCX74z = 9 x 7 x 2.6 = 163.8 cubic mm

CT DCX75 = 11 x 7.2 x 1.4 mm = 110.9 cubic mm

CT DCX76 = 10.8 x 7.1 x 1.3 mm = 99.7 cubic mm

CT DCX76z = 6.9 x 6.1 x 1.7= 71.6 cubic mm

 

Tran (CT) have a sound decoder, the SL76, at under 300 cubic mm.

 

- Nigel

[Guest]

With all this decoder talk I thought I would have a look a some and I have found this decoder for £15:

 

http://www.digitrain...in-decoder.aspx

 

OR THIS:

 

http://www.digitrains.co.uk/ecommerce/search/dz125in.aspx

 

 

Would this not be good enough then from what you guys have been saying...? Because I don't really want to be spending about £40 on a bog standard decoder and it would need to be the pins because I'm not good enough at soldering....

 

 

Oli

[Nigelcliffe]

With all this decoder talk I thought I would have a look a some and I have found this decoder for £15:

 

http://www.digitrain...in-decoder.aspx

 

OR THIS:

 

http://www.digitrain...ch/dz125in.aspx

 

 

Would this not be good enough then from what you guys have been saying...? Because I don't really want to be spending about £40 on a bog standard decoder and it would need to be the pins because I'm not good enough at soldering....

 

Both work, both are DCC decoders. I expect they both have fans and enthusiasts who think they are brilliant.

I wouldn't use either as the running qualities (notably from stop to slowest speed, or from moving to stopped) are not up to the standards I expect.

 

6-pin decoders require a loco with a 6-pin decoder socket. Most DCC-Ready in N gauge will have this socket, but do check your specific locomotive first.

Note that the Bachmann (Soundtraxx) decoder will not run on a DC layout, whereas most decoders will run on DC as well as DCC.

 

 

Running quality of decoders comes down to what you want or expect. If you want top-quality slow speed control in N, then I think it comes down to a choice between Zimo or CT (very slightly better running, rubbish customer support from the manufacturer). Price at my local retailer for Zimo and CT on six-pins are between £25.45 to £31 depending on which decoder is selected (more expensive for smaller sized decoder).

 

As I said earlier, when I tested a lot of decoders in my 2mm and N models, I found that only CT and Zimo were better at motor control than a good analogue controller. If I could not achieve better running than analogue then I'd not have converted locos to DCC.

 

 

From what you are saying, there is a budget of £150 to get started, and a tight budget thereafter. You want to build a loco depot (which implies decoders in at least half a dozen locos). If you went with analogue, the price of one loco decoder will buy all the section electrical switches required for the layout so that locos can be parked against each other at the depot. The price of six decoders will buy one or two locos, or a fleet of wagons. Against a tight budget, I'd do it with a quality analogue controller.

 

 

- Nigel

[Guest]

6-pin decoders require a loco with a 6-pin decoder socket. Most DCC-Ready in N gauge will have this socket, but do check your specific locomotive first.

Note that the Bachmann (Soundtraxx) decoder will not run on a DC layout, whereas most decoders will run on DC as well as DCC.

 

To get to the decoder "area" would you just have to remove the locos body/chassis? Because I did this with my Farish 33 and I was greeted with a silver box type structure with everything inside and I couldn't get into it... maybe this loco was not DCC ready? Yes I noticed that the Bachmann one said it wouldn't work on DC operation.

 

Running quality of decoders comes down to what you want or expect. If you want top-quality slow speed control in N, then I think it comes down to a choice between Zimo or CT (very slightly better running, rubbish customer support from the manufacturer). Price at my local retailer for Zimo and CT on six-pins are between £25.45 to £31 depending on which decoder is selected (more expensive for smaller sized decoder).

As I said earlier, when I tested a lot of decoders in my 2mm and N models, I found that only CT and Zimo were better at motor control than a good analogue controller. If I could not achieve better running than analogue then I'd not have converted locos to DCC.

 

Yes have heard Zimo a few times now but to be honest at around £30 each that's way to much for me!

 

If I could not achieve better running than analogue then I'd not have converted locos to DCC.

 

I can see your point there but that wouldn't be the only reason I was going DCC - the main reason is because I could control multiple locos on the same bit of track without having to do loads of wiring and making isolating sections. If I was to buy the four way controller from Morley (which would be what I would get if I went analogue) then that is £125 plus the price of the extra wires needed (because there would have to be 4 main wires - 2 buses. Plus all the switches and the fact it would take longer and be much more complicated.) As long as I got that aspect of DCC (running more than loco on once piece of track) then I wouldn't mind that the running quality was the same as analogue - which is pretty decent anyway.

 

From what you are saying, there is a budget of £150 to get started, and a tight budget thereafter. You want to build a loco depot (which implies decoders in at least half a dozen locos). If you went with analogue, the price of one loco decoder will buy all the section electrical switches required for the layout so that locos can be parked against each other at the depot. The price of six decoders will buy one or two locos, or a fleet of wagons. Against a tight budget, I'd do it with a quality analogue controller.

 

Yes the budget is £150 - and that could get me the NCE power cab and one of those decoders I linked. And yes the budget is tight after because I am only 15 and have no income but I do have savings and my mum and dad buy me the odd item so I could manage if like mentioned earlier I get a new decoder every so often (ie. 2-3 weeks) within no time I would have my 5 locos chipped. And then each time after when I buy a new loco I would just have to accept that I would have to add around £15 to the price of it (for the decoder...) And yes my layout would feature a TMD but I am not going to stuff it with locos.

 

So yes I see what you are saying, and I appreciate you pointing it out but I still really think I would like to go DCC now I have learnt the advantages of it...

 

 

 

Thank you, Oli

[Edwin_m]

The Farish 33 along with many of their other diesels is not DCC ready. It is reasonably easy to convert but it does involve dismantling it completely, filing away some bits of the chassis and soldering wires from the decoder onto the motor contacts, so probably not a good one to start off with!

 

If you look on the Farish website it tells you which locos are DCC ready. Those marked "6 DCC" are easiest, just plug in a 6-pin decoder. The ones marked "PCB DCC" need the wires from the decoder soldering onto the printed circuit board that sits on top of the chassis, which is a bit tricky. Other diesels, with no DCC marking on the website, are mostly similar to the 33.

[Izzy]

I am afraid the problem that I discovered when I went DCC last year is that unless you invest in CT or Zimo decoders you are unlikely to obtain slow speed running that comes anywhere near that which can be obtained on DC using a simple and plain transistor controller. I tried a wide variety of chips and bitterly regretted my decision to go DCC until I tried a CT chip.

 

You may be happy with the level of performance that the Bachmann chip delivers, or a Digitrax, or a Lenz, I tried them all, along with much experimenting with CV's, in a vain attempt to improve slow running. I could not get matching performance to DC, let alone better it. I felt that the trade off of being able to control locos without the need for track sections just wasn't worth the large amount of money I had spent if performance suffered as it did.

 

Yes, these 'better' chips may cost considerably more. But quite frankly unless you use them you may as well not bother with DCC. DC will be far better, and much cheaper.

 

Izzy

[Modelling Martin]

Hi

 

A few years ago I had a couple of gauge master controllers when one day I saw a class 37 dcc sound in a shop window and thought yes. As it was near Christmas it went down and so on Christmas day it was sitting under the tree!

 

However it spent a few months on my shelf as I'd didn't have any thing to control it with. I bought a Hornby select and for a while it was quite good easy to use but not so good on the fact that it could only operate eight functions and was unable to change any cv settings. After I'd finally decided to take the plunge into dcc I bought a NCE starter set for my 12th birthday and it has worked faultlessley although I did need to buy a laptop power input as 200ft of track, 2 sound locks on all the time and Hornby Pullmans take a lot of juice! Sice then it's been a pleasure to use with its easy function keys and general practicality.

 

I thoroughly recommend this system

 

Gary

[GoingUnderground]

I am afraid the problem that I discovered when I went DCC last year is that unless you invest in CT or Zimo decoders you are unlikely to obtain slow speed running that comes anywhere near that which can be obtained on DC using a simple and plain transistor controller. I tried a wide variety of chips and bitterly regretted my decision to go DCC until I tried a CT chip.

 

You may be happy with the level of performance that the Bachmann chip delivers, or a Digitrax, or a Lenz, I tried them all, along with much experimenting with CV's, in a vain attempt to improve slow running. I could not get matching performance to DC, let alone better it. I felt that the trade off of being able to control locos without the need for track sections just wasn't worth the large amount of money I had spent if performance suffered as it did.

 

Yes, these 'better' chips may cost considerably more. But quite frankly unless you use them you may as well not bother with DCC. DC will be far better, and much cheaper.

 

Izzy

 

DCC offers excellent slow-speed running. I have ESU, Hornby, Bachmann and ZTC decoders and all perform very well at very slow speeds.

 

I was helping a club colleague recently with a decoder which had a nasty habit of suddenly accelerated then slowing down again as you brought it to a stop. Very strange, I'd never seen anything like it before. The problem was cured by changing one of the CVs that control the Back EMF settings, and that was done by trial and error. It now runs very smoothly at all speeds. The decoder was a new Bachmann 21Pin model, but is the entry level ESU LokPilot Basic V1.0 sold under the Bachmann brand.

 

I've been using DCC for many years, but I also still use DC for my 1960s Tri-ang stuff. So I hope I'm resonably unbiased.

 

You've been asking many basic questions about DCC. We can only tell you so much. You need to go and do some research for yourself into DCC. You've looked at some help pages on the web, such as Alan Gartner's and Brian Lambert's pages and had problems with them. If you're like me and reading stuff on a screen means it doesn't always sink in the first time round, then try buying or getting from a library Ian Morton's book on DCC in the "Aspects of Modelling" series to get much more detail and background than you can get via this or any other forum. There are other books on DCC, I just happen to have that one and found it was a useful starting point particularly as a UK modeller.

 

This will probably seem like heresy to died-in-the-wool DCC users, but if you still need convincing of the merits of DCC, and have troubles getting your head round it after reading up on it, or you have a shunting layout with only one loco running at any one time, then you may be better off sticking with DC. DCC has a learning curve that some folks who aren't sufficiently technically minded or were lukewarm about the idea of DCC in the first place find is too steep. They either give up and go back to DC or become very dissatisfied modellers. If you've needed convincing about the merits of DCC over DC then you may be one of them.

 

Don't get me wrong, in my opinion DCC is very, very good, but it can be an expensive experiment. You need to be certain that you believe that its benefits are worth having before you buy anything. That way you will have sufficient determination to overcome any problems that you may have.

[Nigelcliffe]

I am afraid the problem that I discovered when I went DCC last year is that unless you invest in CT or Zimo decoders you are unlikely to obtain slow speed running that comes anywhere near that which can be obtained on DC

 

DCC offers excellent slow-speed running. I have ESU, Hornby, Bachmann and ZTC decoders and all perform very well at very slow speeds.

.........

 

Keith, is your experience with N gauge? Your answer implies it is 4mm(OO) or similar, from the decoders quoted.

 

Izzy and I have tested N gauge and 2mm models. Our results, conducted independently on different N gauge mechanisms with several different DCC systems, agree with each other. Oli (the original poster) is asking about an N gauge layout.

 

My testing showed different results when I put the test decoders in small 4mm scale models which have larger motors than those used in commercial N models.

 

 

I know Izzy. We met after he'd done his DCC tests. Perhaps we get our results due to an electromagnetic anomaly in East Anglia ?

 

 

- Nigel

[GoingUnderground]

Keith, is your experience with N gauge? Your answer implies it is 4mm(OO) or similar, from the decoders quoted.

 

Izzy and I have tested N gauge and 2mm models. Our results, conducted independently on different N gauge mechanisms with several different DCC systems, agree with each other. Oli (the original poster) is asking about an N gauge layout.

 

My testing showed different results when I put the test decoders in small 4mm scale models which have larger motors than those used in commercial N models.

 

 

I know Izzy. We met after he'd done his DCC tests. Perhaps we get our results due to an electromagnetic anomaly in East Anglia ?

 

 

- Nigel

Nigel,

 

I have no idea why you have taken such exception to my post. The comment about CT and Zimo decoders to which I was replying did not specify the scale/gauge of the locos in which the decoders were being used. I did not say that I didn't believe Izzy, only that I didn't share his experience.

 

Are you now saying that only members of the 2mm Scale association or active 2mm modellers are the only folks entitled to read and contribute to this thread even though it may be of interest to others who are thinking of going DCC but do not model in 2mm?

[Nigelcliffe]

Nigel,

 

I have no idea why you have taken such exception to my post. The comment about CT and Zimo decoders to which I was replying did not specify the scale/gauge of the locos in which the decoders were being used. I did not say that I didn't believe Izzy, only that I didn't share his experience.

 

Are you now saying that only members of the 2mm Scale association or active 2mm modellers are the only folks entitled to read and contribute to this thread even though it may be of interest to others who are thinking of going DCC but do not model in 2mm?

 

Keith,

Sorry if you took offence.

 

I have inside knowledge of Izzy's experiments, so know they started on UK outline N RTR items. Equally, its clear in the thread that the original poster was asking about N gauge items.

 

What works well in one scale does not automatically translate to another. That applies in both directions, decoders which are superb in small models can give poor control in larger models.

 

 

- Nigel

[Izzy]

Nigel,

 

I have no idea why you have taken such exception to my post. The comment about CT and Zimo decoders to which I was replying did not specify the scale/gauge of the locos in which the decoders were being used. I did not say that I didn't believe Izzy, only that I didn't share his experience.

 

Are you now saying that only members of the 2mm Scale association or active 2mm modellers are the only folks entitled to read and contribute to this thread even though it may be of interest to others who are thinking of going DCC but do not model in 2mm?

 

 

I don't think he was implying that at all if you read the post correctly, but that the experience with N gauge models with their motors which consume much lower current levels means that the DCC experience with many chips is different to that which most who model in the larger scales with higher current drain motors get.

 

The original poster is concerned with N gauge models, so I gave my opinion as a relative newcomer to DCC based on my recent experiences with using DCC with them. You countered that. Since NIgel's and my experiences with the smaller scale coincide, and are also shared by many others also modelling in N/2mm, an inquiry was made as to whether your experiences reflected the smaller scales, or a larger one such as 4mm, where as I have already stated the experience is markedly different.

 

Izzy

[Izzy]

 

 

I can see your point there but that wouldn't be the only reason I was going DCC - the main reason is because I could control multiple locos on the same bit of track without having to do loads of wiring and making isolating sections. If I was to buy the four way controller from Morley (which would be what I would get if I went analogue) then that is £125 plus the price of the extra wires needed (because there would have to be 4 main wires - 2 buses. Plus all the switches and the fact it would take longer and be much more complicated.) As long as I got that aspect of DCC (running more than loco on once piece of track) then I wouldn't mind that the running quality was the same as analogue - which is pretty decent anyway.

 

 

Thank you, Oli

 

 

Could I just point out, in the interests of clarity, that with a DCC handset, whilst you can 'call up' and control a large number of locos, and set them running on the same piece of track, you can only have one loco under direct immediate control at any one time, (unless your double heading). To control two or more locos at the same time you need a separate handset for each one. I mention this after seeing the reference to the Morely 4 way controller. I presume you mean that 4 locos can be controlled independently with this at once.

 

Izzy