brian777999 Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 If modelling the LMS railway during the 40's and BR in the 50's, would coloured light signals have been used much ? Would signals still have been mostly of the semaphore type ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Useful thread: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/35379-single-aspect-two-colour-light-signals/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 The LMS introduced American style colour light signals on the Euston - Watford DC lines in the 1930's - they lasted in service until the mid-1980's http://www.roscalen.com/signals/London/CWJ.htm XF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted August 29, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 29, 2012 If modelling the LMS railway during the 40's and BR in the 50's, would coloured light signals have been used much ? Would signals still have been mostly of the semaphore type ? They are referred to as colour lights, not coloured lights. The LMS started to use colour lights for distant signals and intermediate blocks from the 1930s, for a typical model railway you are unlikely to need to worry about such things. Replacement of stop signals was a much slower process, some specialised installations occurred as mentioned above and some piece meal installations at places like Rugby / Crewe / Preston / Carlisle - i.e big locations - but as a general rule the answer would be no, use semaphores. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 I agree with Beast re the LMS and London Midland Region of BR. For completeness it may be worth mentioning that the LNER and SR implemented or at least started work on a number of area-wide colour light schemes, some being interrupted by WW2 and finished in the 50s, so colour lights would be more common on the Eastern and Southern regions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBill Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Hi all, For the involvement (or not) of colour lighs in 1940s accidents, see: http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/eventsummary.php?eventID=106 http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/eventsummary.php?eventID=1480 Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 I have a circuit diagram for Paxton box, between St. Neots and Offord that includes a colourlight distant, dated 1934. This particular signal was approach lit. Here is a GNR diagram with a crudely drawn colourlight at the left hand end... http://www.flickr.com/photos/32297024@N08/6988072773/sizes/k/in/photostream/ It was drawn in properly on this LNER diagram. No idea of dates though.. http://www.flickr.com/photos/32297024@N08/6841948904/sizes/k/in/photostream/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBill Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 I have a circuit diagram for Paxton box, between St. Neots and Offord that includes a colourlight distant, dated 1934. This particular signal was approach lit. Here is a GNR diagram with a crudely drawn colourlight at the left hand end... http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/ It was drawn in properly on this LNER diagram. No idea of dates though.. http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/ Thanks LNERGE. Interesting that it's a three-aspect signal. What aspects did it show, depending on the configuration of the semaphores? Thanks Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 I believe it was, certainly in it's early years and maybe into the early 70's, approach lit. It's normal state was out. The approach track circuit caused it to light as you would expect however that track circuit feed was cut over a contact on Three Counties up fast starter no on. Thus this signal would light to double yellow when Three Counties 26 signal was cleared and stayed alight via the approach track down. It would clear to green once Cadwell 6 signal was cleared. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted September 2, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 2, 2012 I don't know about the LNER, but prior to the use of double filament lamps the LMS had a lot of 3 aspect distant signals where the top yellow was only used as an auxilliary in case of failure of the bottom yellow lamp. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted September 2, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 2, 2012 Interestingly the LMS was fairly early in the comprehensive resignalling of a major station with colour lights with Manchester Exchange/its western approaches/the west end of Victoria being converted top power operation with new signalboxes (Westinghouse K frames) and colour light signals throughout with most if not all running signals being 4 aspect and some being of the 'cluster head' type as well as projector type route indicators being used on some signals - and that lot was commissioned in 1929. However - as others have already implied - the LMS then seemed to lose impetus and fall behind developments on the LNER and SR both of which were commissioning wide area schemes before the war with others delayed by hostilities. Apart from the speed signalling experiment at Mirfield in 1932 http://www.google.co.uk/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=mirfield+speed+signalling&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&redir_esc=&ei=4DFDUI7qIoKd0AWs04GIDA http://www.signalbox.org/signals/lmsspeed-p.htm LMS work was - as Beast has already explained concentrated on replacement of isolated signals until further major station schemes restarted after the war and into early BR days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 I told an untruth.. The Paxton circuit diagram is 1933. The lead acid accumulators are trickle charged by dry cells hence the need to approach light the signal.. Also of note is the indicator, which was of the five position type, was like this one at Great Chesterford.. http://signalbox.org/gallery/e/greatchesterford.php Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 It would clear to green once Cadwell 6 signal was cleared. The diagram shows the DR operated only by signal 18.Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 The circuit diagram is for Paxton but the reference to Cadwell UMAOD is upthread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyC Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 I agree with Beast re the LMS and London Midland Region of BR. For completeness it may be worth mentioning that the LNER and SR implemented or at least started work on a number of area-wide colour light schemes, some being interrupted by WW2 and finished in the 50s, so colour lights would be more common on the Eastern and Southern regions. ............ However - as others have already implied - the LMS then seemed to lose impetus and fall behind developments on the LNER and SR both of which were commissioning wide area schemes before the war with others delayed by hostilities. Apart from the speed signalling experiment at Mirfield in 1932 http://www.google.co...qIoKd0AWs04GIDA http://www.signalbox.../lmsspeed-p.htm LMS work was - as Beast has already explained concentrated on replacement of isolated signals until further major station schemes restarted after the war and into early BR days. IIRC according to 'Two Centuries of Railway Signalling' by Williamson & Kitcheside the Mirfield scheme was the work of an ex LNER signal engineer, A.F. Bound. Jeremy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted September 2, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 2, 2012 IIRC according to 'Two Centuries of Railway Signalling' by Williamson & Kitcheside the Mirfield scheme was the work of an ex LNER signal engineer, A.F. Bound. Jeremy Bound was ex-Great Central and was responsible for a considerable amount of the signalling development in Britain between the wars including the first section of automatic colour light signalling on a mainline (Marylebone - Neasden Jcn, basically designed as a GCR scheme but implemented by the LNER). He moved to the LMS in 1929 and began a programme of standardisation and was in some respects the Company's signal engineering equivalent of Stanier on the loco front. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 You will see Mr Bound listed as heading the S&T group at this meeting http://www.norgrove.me.uk/signalling/Block-a.pdf Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adanapress Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 I believe I have understood aright, that the folk at GCR(N) have found in their trackside vegetation an unusual hybrid, coming from a change over period. (? when) A old style signal post, with typical colour light hood in front, with a semaphore style operating system from the signal box, to change the colour shown - in front of an Adlake type electric lamp. They have recovered this remarkable object and its safe for now. Queries (and any donations) to GCR(N) signal dept. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 There is one such on their up platform at Quorn, presumably in full working order (I haven't seen it operate as it is only used for reversing moves IIRC). I think it was used because there was no room for a conventional semaphore arm in that specific place rather than as an attempt to establish a new form of signalling! There is an accident report which refers to something similar on the LMS near Manchester, where a collision was thought to be caused by local kids interfering with the balance weights. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 My one pre-dates the Quorn mechanical searchlight by a couple of months. Both were made by the same lovely lady who is right handy with a bit of metal<G> http://www.flickr.com/photos/32297024@N08/sets/72157628467407793/ The one found on the GC Northern Section is a three aspect and i think was Gotham Sidings down home also acting as down forward section distant for the down starter. I have a photo of the box diagram somewhere. One day i will get round to making my own three aspect mechanical searchlight. I have two specially weighted spectacle plates and an original oval blanking plate for the lower 'arm'. Red or yellow was given by the top spectacle plate, green by the lower. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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