Cuts and Shuts

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

If the 9F's were retained until the end of their working lives perhaps the following could have occurred. For such a small number of steam locomotives the retention and maintenance of water columns would be uneconomic so therefore to increase water capacity two bogie tenders would be provided based on the frames of the Diesel brake tenders but fitted with a water tank, the tenders would be one each fore and aft. The tenders would also have a driving cab at the outer ends to eliminate signal sighting problems. The locomotives themselves would be converted to oil burning,..

I have the parts for my take on just such a scheme: a cab forward 9F with the pony truck moved around so once again leading; with a large five or six axle bogie tender (dependent on just what water and oil bunker capacities are possible) offering at least 10,000 gallons of water and six tons of oil for essentially identical range from both. I believe I can balance this on a  circa 68' wheelbase for a 70' turntable since the cylinders are near central (helpful) and the oil bunker can be positioned on the outside end of the tender. Among the labour saving aspects are the ash free characteristic of the fuel, so a reduced length smokebox is possible, the conspicuous sand hoppers at the cab end supplying the fireman's sand gun used for periodic desooting of the tube plate and tubes while running. The informal name given by the crew operating the first example is understood to be Cack of the North.

[Corbs]

There looks to be almost enough room in there for another set of driving wheels.

In a similar vein, here's Stanier's fast mixed traffic monster, the 2-10-2 8P9F. Haven't thought of a clever name other than perhaps 'Monarch Class'.

 

 

 

Also, this is an unfinished cab forward 9F I was working on a while back, gave up though as couldn't transfer what was in my head to the screen.

 

Edited February 16, 2014 by Corbs

[69843]

Another old one, this time based on a real proposal by the GWR for a Garratt. There were two schemes, one a 4-6-0+0-6-4 and one a 2-8-0+0-8-2. I'm planning to redo these, but for the meantime:

 

 

(And before anyone mentions the inside/outside bearing bogie, I just couldn't be bothered changing it at the time.)

[Moleman978]

After Southeastern realised passenger numbers were dropping on some branch lines, they cut and shut a class 466 to make a class 467.

[garethashenden]

In a similar vein, here's Stanier's fast mixed traffic monster, the 2-10-2 8P9F. Haven't thought of a clever name other than perhaps 'Monarch Class'.

 

 

 

 

Also, this is an unfinished cab forward 9F I was working on a while back, gave up though as couldn't transfer what was in my head to the screen.

 

If it were a 2-10-2 Cab forward it would look more balanced. Or even a 4-10-2.

[Corbs]

If it were a 2-10-2 Cab forward it would look more balanced. Or even a 4-10-2.

Yeah maybe. I wonder if a bogie tender would be better, with the leading bogie set forward to articulate the whole unit.

[RuthlessRob]

In a similar vein, here's Stanier's fast mixed traffic monster, the 2-10-2 8P9F. Haven't thought of a clever name other than perhaps 'Monarch Class'.

 

 

 

Also, this is an unfinished cab forward 9F I was working on a while back, gave up though as couldn't transfer what was in my head to the screen.

 

Love the 2-10-2

 

[sir douglas]

some of these ideas would look brilliant and believable if they were drawn right

[darren01]

If it were a 2-10-2 Cab forward it would look more balanced. Or even a 4-10-2.

Need a very strong armed fireman to throw the coal from there to the firebox!

[Budgie]

If it is anything like the real US cab-forwards, they were oil-burners.

[Mallard4468]

How do I do a cut & shut? I have ideas for a few, including a Bulleid Baltic, a Gresley Streamlined 4-4-2, & an LMS-ized king

[Corbs]

How do I do a cut & shut? I have ideas for a few, including a Bulleid Baltic, a Gresley Streamlined 4-4-2, & an LMS-ized king

Hi Mallard4468, I use photoshop, there is another (free) app you can use called GIMP, which is similar.

https://www.gimp.org/

[Corbs]

Oil fired, Cab Forward Mallet-Fairlie-Garratt anyone?

 

Made from the Super-Garratt that Beyer Peacock drew up....

http://www.railwaywondersoftheworld.com/articulated-locos.html

[sir douglas]

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Oil fired, Cab Forward Mallet-Fairlie-Garratt anyone?

 

 

 

 Actually I feel that's adequately described as a cab forward, oil fired, double boiler Fairlie articulated, if it is all simple expansion as the cylinder sizes imply. A double boiler Fairlie doesn't need 'Garratt' added to the name, and if you take off the outer engine units that make the illustrated scheme more 'articulated' than the pair of Fairlie bogies that make it a Fairlie, that's clearly what you have, a double boiler Fairlie. Think that's fairly clear.

 

Then if it is a compound, we might come to 'cab forward, oil fired, double boiler Fairlie-Mallet'. (Most North American so called 'Mallet' locos are no such thing as 'Mallet' requires compounding - the N&W Y6 types for example were true Mallet types - and are simply 'articulated' locomotives, as no specific designer name ever got attached to this scheme AFAIK.)

 

Wonderful fun whatever it is named. You might want to put your name to it as designer, for a more compact title...

[Corbs]

Ok, I'll call it the Cafallarratt

 

 

On a side note - yes you are right about it being simple expansion, which is interesting as the article describes the base image as a Super-Garratt or Mallet-Garratt

Edited April 26, 2017 by Corbs

[Hroth]

Here's one I've toyed with for a while now; a "whatif" Dean had hung on longer and Churchward was forced to experiment with what he had, before his Standard scheme took root...

 

Its got a certain something about it (ie, it probably wouldn't work!) but with bags of style!

 

I'm slowly proceeding with a real-life version, cobbling together a couple of Dapol "City of Truro" kits...

[scots region]

Ok, I'll call it the Cafallarratt

I'll call it 'Fittersweep'

[Corbs]

Something a bit more subtle....

[Talltim]

A couple of real life cut 'n shuts.

GBRf coal hopper shortened by 3 meters for use for aggregates.

https://derekwilson-railphotos.smugmug.com/keyword/wagons/i-f8s64pm/A

EWS coal hopper (HTA) before repainting

http://www.wnxx.com/17/1704/100417/66019.htm

With the downturn in coal traffic both GBRf and DBC have been shortening their coal hoppers to allow for more wagons in the same length and weight of train. Apparently it saves about 3 tons per wagon

Edited April 28, 2017 by Talltim

[The Johnster]

Another old one, this time based on a real proposal by the GWR for a Garratt. There were two schemes, one a 4-6-0+0-6-4 and one a 2-8-0+0-8-2. I'm planning to redo these, but for the meantime:

 

GWR King Garratt.png

 

(And before anyone mentions the inside/outside bearing bogie, I just couldn't be bothered changing it at the time.)

 

The King type bogie would have been necessary if both engine units were 4-cylinder based on the De Glehn layout...

[The Johnster]

Here's one I've toyed with for a while now; a "whatif" Dean had hung on longer and Churchward was forced to experiment with what he had, before his Standard scheme took root...

Atbara as 460.jpg

 

Its got a certain something about it (ie, it probably wouldn't work!) but with bags of style!

 

I'm slowly proceeding with a real-life version, cobbling together a couple of Dapol "City of Truro" kits...

Don't see why it wouldn't have worked, though it might not have worked particularly well (you've got to make a right dog's dinner of a steam loco if it will not work at all...).   Inside cylinders driving on the leading axle would have been limited as to size, in which case the loco seems a bit 'overboilered' to be particularly economical, and I doubt if would have been much more powerful than the Atbara it is derived from.  There would have been a lot of stress and wear on the rear crankpins.  

 

But it does look rather engaging!

Edited April 29, 2017 by The Johnster

[FPH 603]

Here's another one. What if Inter City had done this using the V16 Velenta instead of converting the 47/8's

 

Or, what to do with those left over Lima HST's! Can sometimes be seen on Coppell.

Beautiful! Now I want to recreate that, I should put that as a station pilot on my layout.

[The Johnster]

Don't see why it wouldn't have worked, though it might not have worked particularly well (you've got to make a right dog's dinner of a steam loco if it will not work at all...).   Inside cylinders driving on the leading axle would have been limited as to size, in which case the loco seems a bit 'overboilered' to be particularly economical, and I doubt if would have been much more powerful than the Atbara it is derived from.  There would have been a lot of stress and wear on the rear crankpins.  

 

But it does look rather engaging!

 

 

No worse than some contemporary inside cylinder 4-6-0s on other railways; in fact, the outside frames allow room for slightly larger inside cylinders.  I'd say it's biggest drawback is that there's not enough firebox for that size of boiler, and nowhere to increase it's size between the two rear axles.  Now if it had been an Atlantic with outside trailing axle bearings...

[Mike-Greg]

Years ago when i was a young lad ( around 13 i think  i am 73 now ) i had my first electric train set ( a triang TT goods set )

i soon started making a layout but as i did not have much room the ovals / curves were very tight and the hymack used to grind to a stop going round them

so i opend it and cat a chunk out the body and the chassis , and then glued it back together,   my old man had a fit,, but it worked , and whent round the curves no problem after that

 

Mike