Cuts and Shuts

[ozzyo]

 

I thought the image at the top of page three was a myth, however 45599, Mr Fowler's stretched Jubilee, was seen at Barrow Hill

 

 

Now why would it be Mr. Fowler's stretched Jubilee? When It was Sir William Stainer that designed the Jubilees.

 

OzzyO.

[steaming_chris]

Now why would it be Mr. Fowler's stretched Jubilee? When It was Sir William Stainer that designed the Jubilees.

 

OzzyO.

 

Hi OzzyO

 

sorry about that, shows my poor knowledge of LMS loco's. I'll update the caption.

Your correction made me look up some information on Wikipedia, I did read, and find this interesting, that

The last 5 Patriots of Henry Fowler's Patriot class on order, 5552 to 5557, were built with William Stanier’s taper boiler and so became the first of the Jubilee class

Thanks again

[steaming_chris]

Mr Stanier was anoyed when the paint shop used an existing number for his new "Duchess of Scotland", seen here at Butterley

[Flying Pig]

A Stanier Mountain* is a very tasty idea (and would look great with steamrailuk's 8-wheel tender). I thought it could do with a wee bit more firebox and a shade less tube length, though.

 

 

Long Mynd perhaps.

[steaming_chris]

A Stanier Mountain* is a very tasty idea (and would look great with steamrailuk's 8-wheel tender). I thought it could do with a wee bit more firebox and a shade less tube length, though.

 

 

Long Mynd perhaps.

 

Hi "Flying Pig"

 

you must have been reading my mind, when I was "cutting and pasting", I thought that for the LMS gadients and speed, that the tender should have been extended for the water and coal consumption.

I know that this crosses over to the Imaginary Engine thread, and these few questions will show my lack of mechanical knowledge, but does the larger firebox and grate area produce higher steam preasure and higher speeds ? I was thinking as an experimental engine, would Mr Stanier have used standard parts and just extended the tubes. Did the LMS have a larger firebox ?

 

I'll try a Mk II over the weekend

Regards

[Flying Pig]

I know that this crosses over to the Imaginary Engine thread, and these few questions will show my lack of mechanical knowledge, but does the larger firebox and grate area produce higher steam preasure and higher speeds ? I was thinking as an experimental engine, would Mr Stanier have used standard parts and just extended the tubes. Did the LMS have a larger firebox ?

Errm... it was a handwaving guess based on my very limited knowledge of boilers: too long and skinny and the front is too cool to produce much steam, but there's a great deal more to it than that, most of which is beyond me. Actually, I think the LMS might have gone back to the smaller wheels of the Princess to allow a slightly fatter boiler within the loading gauge (wasn't this proposed for the 4-6-4?). It would almost certainly have been a bespoke boiler and firebox design and I'd guess that the motivation would be higher sustained horsepower from the bigger grate and boiler.

 

The grate area would certainly be getting into mechanical stoker territory, so perhaps a later rebuild with gpcs to reduce fire-throwing would be in order.

 

Looking forward to MkII

[ozzyo]

Sorry to be a wet blanket but the overall length of the loco has to be taken in to account, a normal 'Duchess' would only just fit on a 70' T/T so imagine what one of these would need with an 8 wheeled tender. looks bl00dy smart though.

 

On to the firebox, increase the great area to about 60 sq ft. thermic syphons and a larger combustion chamber, then the tube length would not increase so much. It would now need a mec. stoker (the 'Duchess' when on test used two fire men and produced something like 4000 dbhp IIRC).

 

OzzyO.

[Flying Pig]

the 'Duchess' when on test used two fire men and produced something like 4000 dbhp IIRC

Which is probably why nothing bigger was ever actually built - there really wasn't a need (though I think 3500 ihp is probably nearer the mark).

 

looks bl00dy smart though.

I think that's the point

[ozzyo]

Which is probably why nothing bigger was ever actually built - there really wasn't a need (though I think 3500 ihp is probably nearer the mark).

 

 

Now lets see what it would look like with the tin on.

 

As I said IIRC I thought it was 4000 DBHP if it was 3500 ihp it is still one of the most powerful steam locos to have run in the U.K. If not the most powerful one.

 

OzzyO.

[steamrailuk]

Hey there Flying Pig, if you wish to take a crack at producing the LMS "Hudson" yourself heres the plans for it below; Plus a 4-8-4 "Northern" for high speed Anglo-Scottish container trains.

 

Would sure like to see how you could produce these in the style you've done above with the LMS mountain type

 

I now some the measurements are unclear so I'll post them below

LMS 4-6-4

Driving wheel diametre: 6' 6"

bogie diametre: 3' 0"

boiler diametre front: 6' 3"

boiler diametre rear : 6' 10"

boiler length: 20' 6"

Firebox length: 10' 0"

 

LMS 4-8-4

Driving wheel diametre: 5' 6"

bogie diametre: 3' 0"

boiler diametre front: 6' 3"

boiler diametre rear : 6' 10"

boiler length: 20' 6"

Firebox length: 10' 0"

 

 

[Flying Pig]

I only tweaked steaming_chris's Mountain, but here's an attempt at a 4-6-4 wearing the proposed tin bath anyway - a bit rough around the tender I'm afraid and not particularly to scale (though I did resize the drivers by 78/81 ). Since we're stealing Jubilee names, I've kept to the sequence and it's 6269 Admiral Codrington.

 

Source here released under Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported licence.

 

To be honest, I'm not that keen on the looks of the streamlined Baltic - it looks better naked, particularly with the Ivatt cab.

[steaming_chris]

Mr Stanier had his new eight wheeled tender shunted upto "Duchess of Scotland", seen at Butterley

[AMJ]

Perhaps the 8w tender ought to ride on a pair of bogies like the SR LN's. Or even max it a bit with a set of wheels like a Big Boy tender. NICE.

 

Must see if I still have the 142 cut and shut I did articulated on 3 Gresley bogies.

[AMJ]

Arriva has the 142 refurbished and running on 3 Gresley bogies. Welcome to the 142/9 - a recreation of one I made earlier.

[Leicester Thumper]

why they didn't go for that type of design on the prototype i will never know. IMO it looks better and holds a better practicality

[Bloodnok]

why they didn't go for that type of design on the prototype i will never know. IMO it looks better and holds a better practicality

 

Probably cost. IIRC the objective of the 14x series was low cost - both to build and to operate. Using the suspension arrangement they did probably saved them a lot of money and weight - and lower weight will mean less fuel and thus hopefully lower operating costs.

(Random note: IIRC the suspension arrangement used was developed on HSFV1, which has recently been found and preserved, having previously been assumed scrapped!)

 

If they were going to build a conventional bogie passenger vehicle at the time the 14x series were introduced, I'd expect it would have looked a lot more like a 153, only maybe with two cabs the same size, rather than the large and small that the 153 ended up with.

[298]

Second day into the new Hornby catalogue...? Go on then....

 

 

This is what the new Sentinel might look like if their manufacturing processes mean they have to use the Smokey Joe chassis...

[Michael Delamar]

baby deltic

 

[Flying Pig]

Very nice, Mike. Needs a more appropriate name though:

 

[Xerces Fobe2]

 

The Croxley 1938 Cut'n'Shuttle!

 

XF

[69843]

This is what happens when you look through this thread too much, and combine it with my mind:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/album/2021-cuts-and-shuts/]http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/album/2021-cuts-and-shuts

 

Next up is a King Garrett, a GWR Cathedral 4-6-2 and a SR Rebuilt 2-6-2.

Edited December 28, 2012 by 69843

[Michael Delamar]

  

Very nice, Mike. Needs a more appropriate name though:

or Del, after meself, coz I designed it

[cheesysmith]

In the book the deltic locos of british rail by brian webb he goes through different paper locos that were put forward using deltic engines. The one above is almost identical to the proposed one using a t18 engine for a 2500 hp loco for 78 tons. It only needs class 20 bogies and one radiator on the roof.

[Clive Mortimore]

In the book the deltic locos of british rail by brian webb he goes through different paper locos that were put forward using deltic engines. The one above is almost identical to the proposed one using a t18 engine for a 2500 hp loco for 78 tons. It only needs class 20 bogies and one radiator on the roof.

 

A book that has inspired these.

 

A pair of single engined Deltics.

 

A Baby Detic with a 18 cyilnder engine

 

A Baby Detic with a V8 engine

 

A EE Co-Co with twin 9 cylinder Deltic engines

 

A V12 engined A1A-A1A, this is mentioned in Brian Webb's text.

 

Had Newton-le Willows been allowed to make the D400s in their own house style

 

Last of all, in Brian Webb's book is a very ugly looking twin Deltic engineed diesel hydraulic loco. Even the Vulcan Foundry could not let shuch a hiddious looking machine go to the WR so they used their standard cab for it.

[Flying Pig]

  or Del, after meself, coz I designed it

Enough for a class of 2 then