The Nth Degree Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Where there any? I'm sure there must have been as the LNER was the third biggest milk haulier in early 20thC and most of that came from East Anglia but I can't find any references to one online, especially in the late 50s/early 60s. I'll admit, any that existed were probably small compared with those in the west, but I'd really like to have a couple milk tanks running around. If anyone knows any, and what the company (or group) was I'd be grateful. Thanks in advance. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wherry Lines Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 I believe there was one as Halesworth or Bungay. I can't remember which, but it is in one of my Middleton Press books. I will look it up later and get back to you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted September 15, 2012 Author Share Posted September 15, 2012 I will look it up later and get back to you. I'd really appreciate that, thanks Simon. If it tells the name of the dairy too could you let me know? Thanks very much! Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar Side Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 I've never been sure if the Unilever site at Needham Market was once a diary. It was right next to the station alongside the GER main line and I'm sure it had rail access. I took some photos of the road side years ago after it shut but before the site was cleared. https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ll=52.153517,1.05421&spn=0.001912,0.005284&t=h&z=18 Ivan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted September 15, 2012 Author Share Posted September 15, 2012 I'm sure it had rail access. Ivan Thanks Ivan. I can't find any reference to it on any local history sites. I wonder if it was a relatively recent industry? I'm still looking but not much luck yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FelixM Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Hi The Nth Degree, there is an LNER forum thread about this topic: http://www.lner.info....php?f=5&t=4465 So United Dairies / Unigate. I believe there was one as Halesworth or Bungay. I can't remember which, but it is in one of my Middleton Press books. I will look it up later and get back to you. It was at Halesworth station. Track plan here: http://www.signalbox...rams.php?id=317 (roughly BR steam period) but I don't know where exactly the loading point was. Felix Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulG Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Where there any? I'm sure there must have been as the LNER was the third biggest milk haulier in early 20thC and most of that came from East Anglia but I can't find any references to one online, especially in the late 50s/early 60s. I'll admit, any that existed were probably small compared with those in the west, but I'd really like to have a couple milk tanks running around. If anyone knows any, and what the company (or group) was I'd be grateful. Thanks in advance. Steve Steve Milk was loaded into tankers at the United Dairies facility at Halesworth, which was located at the back of the up platform on the site of the Southworld Ralway. See "An Illustrated History of the East Suffolk Railway" by John Brodribb (OPC ISBN0860935728 First pub 2003). In the 1950's milk was also transported in churns as well as tankers and there are a number of photographs of the milk train heading for the United Dairies processing plant at Ilford (opposite the emu depot), including milk tanks, road vehicles on flats and vans in e.g. the various Dr Ian C Allen books. Milk in tankers was also sent to Ilford from North Elmham on the Wells-next-Sea branch, being tripped to Norwich for onward shipment to Ilford. I'm not sure when Ilford depot closed, but I have a photo of the depot dated 1977 with a number of milk tankers in view. Milk tankers would also be seen in empty stock trains, Dr Allen photographed B1 61001 Eland at Snape Junction with LMS and GWR milk tankers, LMS Stanier full brake, Gresley bogie pigeon van and Southern PMV. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted September 16, 2012 Author Share Posted September 16, 2012 You are both legends! I'll find out more now I know what I'm looking for. Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wherry Lines Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 As PaulG says, it was United Dairies at Halesworth. He also mentions a cracking book, but one which seems to be somewhat pricey these days! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classsix T Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I've never heard of Needham having a dairy flow but Stowmarket (my home shack) had a flow of tanks between its Co-op (CWS?) bottling plant and Acton. "The Creamery" as it was known locally was fed off a spur from the Down yard I believe. C6T. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Milk in tankers was also sent to Ilford from North Elmham on the Wells-next-Sea branch, being tripped to Norwich for onward shipment to Ilford. I'm not sure when Ilford depot closed, but I have a photo of the depot dated 1977 with a number of milk tankers in view. This 1978 shot also shows milk tankers in residence suggesting it was still in use at the time. http://www.flickr.com/photos/12064036@N04/3497767650/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulG Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I've never heard of Needham having a dairy flow but Stowmarket (my home shack) had a flow of tanks between its Co-op (CWS?) bottling plant and Acton. "The Creamery" as it was known locally was fed off a spur from the Down yard I believe. C6T. I understood there were only two locations in East Anglia where milk was loaded directly via purpose built facilities into rail milk tankers, at North Elmham, Norfolk and Halesworth, Suffolk, which I understood was the last loading depot and closed 19th April 1965, so interested to know more about the facilities at Stowmarket. Milk in churns was sent from most(?) East Anglia stations over the years and at Hatfield Peverel, Essex, Lord Rayleigh's Dairy had a milk processing depot on the down side of the line. There is an interesting film dated 1938 (at 9min into film) at http://www.eafa.org.uk/catalogue/1367 which shows milk arriving by road vehicle from farms, being processed, tested etc before being dispatched in bottles and churns by road and in churns by rail, in vans, including in the film is N-7 0-6-2T 970 waiting to depart, presumably to Ilford? Did Stowmarket handle milk in rail tankers as at North Elmham and Halesworth or as per the film sequence at Hatfield Peverel? Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulG Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 This 1978 shot also shows milk tankers in residence suggesting it was still in use at the time. http://www.flickr.co...N04/3497767650/ Presumably the Ilford plant processed milk in rail tankers from the West Country, as according to D I Gordon in his book Regional History Vol 5 The Eastern Counties, Halesworth was the last point in East Anglia for loading rail milk tankers and that closed on 19th April 1965. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 Thanks all so far, very interesting and has more than justified having a couple tanks on my line passing through Westerfield. However, can't find any specific info on the web using a variety of search strings. It would be great to find a shot of the creamery, or a least a tanker or two somewhere in the late 50s/early 60s. However, I've found some great properties on Dairy Hill and The Old Creamery! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wherry Lines Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 There is a photo of a J15 with the dairy in The background on pg42 The Lowestoft Train (isbn 0953248569). Apparently there was a loco allocated daily for yard duties - commonly an E4 or J15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 Thanks Simon, I'll look out for that. I'm hoping that 'Ipswich to Saxmundham' by Middleton may have a pic or two in it as it covered the line both passenger and freight. Also, I 'may' have got myself a J15 but I'll have to wait until confirmed. I'm not sure they would have been in extensive use by '58 (maybe replaced by 24s?) so I'll have to find that out. Just for a bit of background, the information I'm gathering here is for this proposed layout: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/59361-westerfield-suffolk-1958-to-1963/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted September 18, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 18, 2012 I'm hoping that 'Ipswich to Saxmundham' by Middleton may have a pic or two in it as it covered the line both passenger and freight. I have it and will check if you like ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wherry Lines Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Most of the local freight was taken over by 204hp shunters (03 and 05) due to weight. There were some 24's but I've seen more evidence of 15's and 30's on the freight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 I have it and will check if you like ? Thanks mate, that will be handy! Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 Most of the local freight was taken over by 204hp shunters (03 and 05) due to weight. There were some 24's but I've seen more evidence of 15's and 30's on the freight. Thanks Simon, I half expected it would be more likely to be CLass 15s than 24s. Incidentally, I have two shunters - an 02 and an 04. Just my luck! There was one 04 allocated to Ipswich but I'm not sure where it worked, probably Ipswich Dock? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wherry Lines Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Yes, and I believe they were fitted with skirts too. I have seen photos of an 03 at Ipswich dock, so it is possible that non-skirt fitted 04's were seen occasionally. I'm sure that 04's were seen out on the branches, but I haven't seen any photos. I will have a flick through my books to see if I can spot an 04. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Presumably the Ilford plant processed milk in rail tankers from the West Country, as according to D I Gordon in his book Regional History Vol 5 The Eastern Counties, Halesworth was the last point in East Anglia for loading rail milk tankers and that closed on 19th April 1965. I think you are correct. Presumably they were tripped around north London. By the time of the photo I think that only the west country (and possibly the south-wales) milk trains remained. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted September 18, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 18, 2012 Thanks mate, that will be handy! Steve I'll take a look tomorrow, kids homework tonight I'm afraid and it's down at my house. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted September 20, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 20, 2012 One picture of a B17 on tanks from Halesworth taken at Westerfield - thats it I'm afraid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulG Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I'll take a look tomorrow, kids homework tonight I'm afraid and it's down at my house. In addition to the photographs of milk trains in Dr Ian Allen five published books, there are a number of photographs of milk trains in the J.D. Mann series of booklets and includes a photograph of longest train of milk tankers in East Anglia I have seen. The photograph was taken by J Davenport at Ipswich in the Winter of 1951 with a down milk train hauled by B17 61672 West Ham United with: six milk tankers, BG, five milk tankers and BG. I'm sure I have seen comment that there as a maximum number of milk tankers to a brake van, which may explain the BG in the centre of the tankers, or it could be that the train was split at Ipswich, with half proceeding to Halesworth and the other half to North Elmham. Has anyone any comment? In contrast there is a excellant photograph of streamlined B17 61670 City of London on the up milk at Witham, hauling two milk tankers and BG. The loco has British Railways on tender, which dates the photo between August 1948 and October 1950 when the streamlined casing was removed. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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