RMWeb Software update broken

[Kenton]

RMWeb has been effectively broken since early this morning - well at least for me!

 

There appears to have been some software update that has totally screwed up the site with the following errors sent as page headers

 

Warning: ksort() expects parameter 1 to be array, boolean given in /home/rmwebco/public_html/community/admin/sources/classes/output/publicOutput.php on line 522

Warning: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() in /home/rmwebco/public_html/community/admin/sources/classes/output/publicOutput.php on line 525

Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /home/rmwebco/public_html/community/admin/sources/classes/output/publicOutput.php:522) in /home/rmwebco/public_html/community/admin/sources/classes/output/formats/html/htmlOutput.php on line 114

Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /home/rmwebco/public_html/community/admin/sources/classes/output/publicOutput.php:522) in /home/rmwebco/public_html/community/admin/sources/classes/output/formats/html/htmlOutput.php on line 127

Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /home/rmwebco/public_html/community/admin/sources/classes/output/publicOutput.php:522) in /home/rmwebco/public_html/community/admin/sources/classes/output/formats/html/htmlOutput.php on line 136

Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /home/rmwebco/public_html/community/admin/sources/classes/output/publicOutput.php:522) in /home/rmwebco/public_html/community/admin/sources/classes/output/formats/html/htmlOutput.php on line 137

Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /home/rmwebco/public_html/community/admin/sources/classes/output/publicOutput.php:522) in /home/rmwebco/public_html/community/admin/sources/classes/output/formats/html/htmlOutput.php on line 141

 

These errors are of course inexcusable for any professional software and illustrate the slap dash attitude they have to coding. There is absolutely no excuse for the basic schoolboy error of "Cannot modify header information - headers already sent" though I accept this is probably caused by the first two errors resulting from there programer's lack of understanding of the basic ksort() and foreach function and command structure element.

 

Anyway such errors should not be visible to a user and should be removed following sensible testing.

[SHMD]

Exact same for me for the last 2 and a half hours,

 

But there seems to be quite a few users on though.

 

Kev.

(I thought the problem was caused by travelling to France today - take off from Manchester RMweb OK, Get to hotel in Versailles RMweb broken!)

[Andy Y]

Sadly I can't gain proper access, just patched through after a hint from Martin Wynne.

 

Before jumping to many assumptions the problem lies with an empty skin cache table in the databse. What is inexcusable is the delay in communications from Invision.

[martin_wynne]

There is absolutely no excuse for the basic schoolboy error of "Cannot modify header information - headers already sent"

 

Hi Kenton,

 

It's not a schoolboy error. It's a very common effect in all PHP scripts when an error is detected after the header has been sent. There is nothing the programmers can do to change this, it is normal PHP behaviour -- PHP is interpreted, not compiled.

 

Almost certainly there is only a single error causing the page full of error messages, and very likely it is only a simple syntax typo.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[Jon Fitness]

Looks ok now at 1853 hours (apart from the clock being the usual hour out...)

Jon F.

[Guest]

Yeah I had that for the last three hours, only just been able to get onto the site... :/

 

 

Oli

[Physicsman]

Well, whatever the problems, the Forum seems to be running very fast at the moment. Fingers crossed.

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Just noticed ... " x Warning Points". Now what are these - sounds like we're about to get yellow carded, then sin-binned!

 

Jeff

[fender]

^^^^yes, I've just been searching the forum for info on this.

 

I have zero. how many can I get?

[SHMD]

Just noticed ... " x Warning Points". Now what are these - sounds like we're about to get yellow carded, then sin-binned!

 

Jeff

 

Looks like you have more than me then.

I noticed them too but I couldn't remember if i'd seen it before.

 

Incidentally, Whilst RMweb was brocken it was in a BIG FONT and I think I saw many things I'd not noticed before!

Just before RMweb fixed itself (thanks really to all behind the scenes) the font size changed back to normal and then, for the next two attempts to load the index page, I got database Driver error!

 

Kev.

[Norm81]

Almost certainly there is only a single error causing the page full of error messages, and very likely it is only a simple syntax typo.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

It wouldn't be the first time I spent over an hour looking for a wrongly placed "}", easily done in many lines of code (I don't know php though).

[Andy Y]

I spent way too long looking for such stuff today too Sprinters.

 

The solution was for Invision to rebuild one of the cache tables.

 

The Warning Posts tag has always been there but hidden to members; it will be hidden again in due course (probably tomorrow).

[Debs.]

The Warning Posts tag has always been there but hidden to members; it will be hidden again in due course (probably tomorrow).

 

Awwwwww!.....that`s a shame; there`d surely be some who`d find the warning-post limit something of a challenge!

[Kenton]

Hi Kenton,

 

It's not a schoolboy error. It's a very common effect in all PHP scripts when an error is detected after the header has been sent. There is nothing the programmers can do to change this, it is normal PHP behaviour -- PHP is interpreted, not compiled.

 

Almost certainly there is only a single error causing the page full of error messages, and very likely it is only a simple syntax typo.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

 

With thanks to Andy, something has been done while I was asleep and now all seems back to normal. It took a great deal of effort to make that post as I was getting a blank page following that error message and following the post. I was even surprised it actually got through.

 

As clearly indicated in my post the common headers sent error was a result of the other warning errors. These warnings errors in themselves of course should never have been made. Even the most basic of programers should know how to use the command "foreach" and the function ksort() is pretty well documented for the programmer who has no experience of using it correctly.

 

Of course this does not excuse these errors being made visible to the public user - who cannot be expected to understand these things, all such errors can be easily trapped and discretely sent to the admin or even back to the software provider, or dumped into a log by defining an appropriate error handler for the site using the function "set_error_handler()" this could even redirect the output to a user friendly error message page such as "mea culpa we've mucked it up again".

 

by sending all output s through a specific routine and setting a flag as an indicator it is very simple to avoid the "headers sent" error, or if desperate all output could be buffered prior to sending back to the client. All pretty fundamental stuff in PHP.

[martin_wynne]

Hi Kenton,

 

You make it all sound so easy!

 

Which no doubt it is when writing stuff to run on your own server. Writing scripts which will install and run on any customer's server anywhere is more tricky.

 

The real failure was not in the programming but in the customer support, leaving the problem unfixed for several hours.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[bbishop]

Looks ok now at 1853 hours (apart from the clock being the usual hour out...)

Jon F.

So that's why Rory McIlroy almost missed his match; he was logged into RMWeb!

 

Bill

[Talltim]

Since the downgrade, when viewing in the mobile skin on an iPhone, RMWeb hosted photos are stretched vertically. This seems to be occurring on photos posted before and after upgrade,

[Andy Y]

Since the downgrade

 

Please don't wind me up; it's been a long day.

 

Yes; the images are not right on iphones (horizontally compressed rather than vertically stretched) but fine on Android so I will look at that tomorrow. All you have to do is flag it up.

[Talltim]

Sorry, with five mins of hindsight I was just coming back to edit that bit.as I realised that although a joke, it was uncalled for.

 

[Talltim]

If it helps with the troubleshooting, if a photo is saved to the phone the proportions are ok, so it is something to do with the rendering within the browser rather than the image being served incorrectly.

It also happens in Chrome on the iPhone, I assume there is some sort of platform detection code in the forum software

[Kenton]

The real failure was not in the programming but in the customer support, leaving the problem unfixed for several hours.

 

Martin, the real failure was in making a system live without testing. Because that lets down both the admin and the users. Failure of customer support just is icing on the cake. In theory - in a perfect world - customer support would not be required if those other folk in the business did their job.

 

I waited hours before raising the issue, partly because I didn't wish to nag and expecting Andy to be aware of the problem and a quick fix in place, and partly because submitting a post without RMWeb pages on my screen took a lot of effort setting up forms. Of course from the outside we see only the public face of the forum and expect the behind the scene support to work perfectly. We perhaps expect that a commercial piece of software to have appropriate levels of support and any new update to function and have been tested before installation.

 

BTW what fancy new features or bug fixes do we get from this upgrade ... in other words was it worth it?

[beast66606]

We perhaps expect that a commercial piece of software to have appropriate levels of support and any new update to function and have been tested before installation.

 

Martin has already mentioned that there are hundreds, probably thousands of permutations of configurations both hardware and software possible - it is not possible to test every one and sometimes problems get through. I don't think the mere programmers did it deliberately to annoy you (if they only knew about your Javascript avoidance they could have far more fun) but I don't think support gave Andy the service he required.

 

I - and many others - simply waited hours and didn't get impatient, I tried once or twice and got a screen which was obviously down to issues, there was no way I would attempt to post in those circumstances - I used Facebook to check with Andy and he was on the case - 'nuff said.

 

I don't expect everything, or even most things to "work perfectly" but I do accept that Andy is doing his best and should be left to get on with it, and moaning after the event is no doubt just adding to his "Why do I bother?" feeling.

 

I'm still awaiting "SpeshPerfectForumSoftware V1.0" - install once and it does everything you ever wanted, perfectly, and is so fast its already retrieved the page before you've even clicked in the link - until that arrives I'm happy to accept that Andy is doing his best in difficult circumstances and allow my high horse to graze gently in it's field.

[Mike-Greg]

Hi

 

Ok so it was like that for me most of the day

but then we had been told that there was to be a software update Sunday/Monday

with any update there are always the possibility of problems, never mind the company ( just kook and windows for example )

or the problems Elite owners seemed to have

 

these sites are complicated and have thousands of threads that can cause problems

so why the complaints

you was warned and it only needed a little patience from all ,,

some people are only to ready to jump at the slightest hickup

only needed a small message to Andy on his Twitter page and he was on the job

thats how i see it anyway so i rest my case and hopefully this thread will now be locked and dissapear into cyber space

 

Mike

[The Stationmaster]

It's here now, it works now, it's free, and it's bl**dy good - so now we're all happy, I hope. I understand sweet fa about most of this 'puting stuff - as far as I'm concerned it's something I use but I've seen enough of it over the years to appreciate the fact that changes can be accompanied by problems and that usually those far more competent than I to eventually sort them even tho it involves them in major headaches, long hours and lots of frustration - so it's very kind of them to take all that hassle on our behalf, thank you Andy.

 

And while Andy was sorting this lot out he still spared the time to use other means to keep us informed - that always takes some doing when you are trying to solve a problem, so thanks for that as well.

[martin_wynne]

In theory - in a perfect world - customer support would not be required if those other folk in the business did their job.

 

Hi Kenton,

 

I think you are being unreasonable. This is not a secure online banking site with a dedicated IT staff constantly monitoring its performance. It's a forum about model trains using inexpensive off-the-shelf scripts. Even if it went off-line for a week it would not be the end of civilisation as we know it.

 

I don't know what you are trying to achieve with your frequent attacks on IPS. Nothing is actually going to change as a result. Unless you are going to provide a perfect replacement board for RMweb with a fully tested conversion script (the difficult bit), we are where we are and staying. RMweb is actually working quite well nowadays, so the time for yet another major upheaval is now past.

 

And unless you do provide such a thing, there isn't really anywhere else to go without losing some functionality. The only other major player is vBulletin, which since its takeover by Internet Brands is becoming mainly a vehicle for advertising. Some of the vBulletin founders are now creating the well-regarded XenForo, but most of their energy is being diverted into a legal battle with Internet Brands, and development appears to be on hold.

 

I'm still wedded to Jim's rock solid UltraBB which I use for Templot Club, and Bob Heath uses on YMR. I won't be changing. But it's not an option for RMweb if you want Blogs, Like buttons, Gallery slideshows, and all the other Ajax stuff. And even a reversion to that would first have to overcome the massive obstacle of finding a conversion script from somewhere, and who's going to write and test that? Over to you.

 

regards,

 

Martin.