'Tin' HAL

[Colin parks]

I think you're being hypercritical, Colin. The roof joint has turned out a lot better than I feared, and a little rubbing should get the contour smooth. The supporting strip distortion is minor - prototype steel panelling had its fair share of bumps as well. It will look great with a top coat.

I think you're being hypercritical, Colin. The roof joint has turned out a lot better than I feared, and a little rubbing should get the contour smooth. The supporting strip distortion is minor - prototype steel panelling had its fair share of bumps as well. It will look great with a top coat.

 

Thanks Miss Prism,

 

There will be some careful rubbing down of the paint anyway. The problem with modelling 'bumpy' steel panelling is that on a model it would just look like a mistake!

 

All the best,

 

Colin

 

 

 

 

[Colin parks]

Your "poor" wee's all over my "good" Colin.....if that helps cheer you up ?

 

Hi Lofty,

 

I'm not downhearted but thanks all the same! Every time I start a model hoping for perfection, which never happens, but I always like to think I have done my best and learn something for next time. At least on this model the sides are tidier than the 2 HAL I made last year. That model looks a bit rough through lack of sanding of the sides prior to painting. This HAL certainly doesn't suffer from a lack of sanding!

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

Colin

 

Just stunning. The camera allways shows everything up, so at normal viewing it must look perfect

 

Thanks John,

 

The model isn't perfect as the pictures show. But the photos I post are not selected to show the model as if it was perfect. The digital camera is another tool to be used to get things as near perfect as possible and I now photograph just about every stage of the building process for that reason. It is true though that with normal viewing, things do not look quite so bad.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

 

 

Hi Colin.

 

There's nothing like the real thing, to show up a few ripples. More like waves, in this case.

 

.

4-EPB

 

I can see why BR went over to an egg-shell finish, with their Blue.

 

Cheers,

 

Frank.

 

Hi Frank,

 

Thanks for the photographic solace! As I've just said in a reply, you wouldn't get away with modelling that 4 EPB with the sides looking like that would you?! The model will be in a satin finish rather than gloss, so by the time it is finished (given a good supply of dry air!) I hope to get the smooth, rounded look of the prototype. I still wonder what would have happened if the sides had been made to continue allthe way up to the gutter/water strip on the roof, but that would have meant even more risky laminating of 10 thou. plastic.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(4-EPB, I don't have a decent

[uax6]

Wow Colin!

 

Your efforts are amazing! I have taken to using rattle-cans for my lastest coach (WCJS that you said such kind things about!), and I put the rattle cans in the bottom oven of the rayburn for about 10 minutes before I used them! Amazing the difference that getting the paint warm does! (Mind up I wouldn't use the top oven, it would have been an interesting colour inside!).

 

Is it going to be a plain blue unit?

 

Andy G

[Colin parks]

Wow Colin!

 

Your efforts are amazing! I have taken to using rattle-cans for my lastest coach (WCJS that you said such kind things about!), and I put the rattle cans in the bottom oven of the rayburn for about 10 minutes before I used them! Amazing the difference that getting the paint warm does! (Mind up I wouldn't use the top oven, it would have been an interesting colour inside!).

 

Is it going to be a plain blue unit?

 

Andy G

 

Thanks for your advice Andy.

 

Pretty much all the things you are meant to do were done: paint air and model all at ambient temperature of the room. The air intake is close to a heat source, so the problem couldn't ahve been chilled air. The paint was not cold either, although not as warm as your paint might get!

 

I think I have found out what the problem is, although I can't think of a solution/reason. The seems to be a fine dust in the air supply itself. I noticed today when stapling some black fabric, that there was a little puff of what looked like smoke coming from the nose of the gun every time I fired a staple. It suddenly dawned on me that it was dust! How there can be any dry residue coming down the airline, I do not know. It isn't rust coloured, so I don't think it can be rust in the air reservoir tank contaminating the air.

 

I will buy an in-line air filter and try a test piece before subjecting the HAL to any more painting. The Tin HAL will be blue with full yellow ends - sooner or later.

 

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

Not my favourite occupation, (although in 1:1 scale it is my occupation!) is making the seating.

 

As the model has virtually scale-width side and floor, the seating is made to what I hope are the right proportions. It was a relief to see in a photo that the second class seating had straight backs along the top, unlike the arch-topped backs of the pre-war HALs. Looking again at the photo, the radiused corners of the seat tops are a bit over-done. The first class seats have arm rests, the shape of which had to be guessed at.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The motor coach seating and partitions have to straddle the inner bogie's pick-up wiring which is easier to run along the centre of the floor than through the chassis. There are gaps under the seats as required. One seat can be seen perched on the floor just for illustration. The piles of seats in the foreground include those for the trailer coach compartments, all ready for painting. I have always used grey for second class and blue for first. Details of BR fabric colours and dates used on specific units are hard to come by, the seats were generally meant to be re-upholstered every seven years or so. (Notice how vague I am being here!)

 

There are one or two details which need to be attended to on the motor coach chassis. I am not happy with my rendition of the arc chute and I have omitted a box to the left of the resistance banks - grrr!

 

Colin

[ozzyo]

Thanks for your advice Andy.

Pretty much all the things you are meant to do were done: paint air and model all at ambient temperature of the room. The air intake is close to a heat source, so the problem couldn't ahve been chilled air. The paint was not cold either, although not as warm as your paint might get!

I think I have found out what the problem is, although I can't think of a solution/reason. The seems to be a fine dust in the air supply itself. I noticed today when stapling some black fabric, that there was a little puff of what looked like smoke coming from the nose of the gun every time I fired a staple. It suddenly dawned on me that it was dust! How there can be any dry residue coming down the airline, I do not know. It isn't rust coloured, so I don't think it can be rust in the air reservoir tank contaminating the air.

I will buy an in-line air filter and try a test piece before subjecting the HAL to any more painting. The Tin HAL will be blue with full yellow ends - sooner or later.

All the best,

Colin

 

Hello Colin,

 

dust in the air line is a new one on me. But check your inlet air filter and see how that's looking. On my grit blaster I use this type of filter this is placed right next to the grit blaster. As seen here. I'm also thinking about getting a filter regulator for the unregulated side of the compressor. Some thing like No. 1 or No. 8 on the page below.

 

I got mine from Machine Mart for about £10.00, it's No. 3 on this page. If you use your compressor for more than just modelling I would fit it next to the air regulator and then fit an in-line filter about 6" from the air brush.

 

I also use this type of fitting to attach the air line to the compressor. Not the same ones as on the page above but the cheaper Clark ones.

 

If you fined out what was causing the dust please let us know, as I would have thought that it would have been trapped in the moist air in the reservoir tank.

 

OzzyO.

 

PS. you could also try filler primer to help fill in any small dips in the plastic. Nice build as well.

[Colin parks]

Hello Colin,

 

dust in the air line is a new one on me. But check your inlet air filter and see how that's looking. On my grit blaster I use this type of filter this is placed right next to the grit blaster. As seen here. I'm also thinking about getting a filter regulator for the unregulated side of the compressor. Some thing like No. 1 or No. 8 on the page below.

 

I got mine from Machine Mart for about £10.00, it's No. 3 on this page. If you use your compressor for more than just modelling I would fit it next to the air regulator and then fit an in-line filter about 6" from the air brush.

 

I also use this type of fitting to attach the air line to the compressor. Not the same ones as on the page above but the cheaper Clark ones.

 

If you fined out what was causing the dust please let us know, as I would have thought that it would have been trapped in the moist air in the reservoir tank.

 

OzzyO.

 

PS. you could also try filler primer to help fill in any small dips in the plastic. Nice build as well.

 

Thanks for all the information OzzyO,

 

Strangely enough, I spoke to my local supplier of these parts and he didn't seem to think that air filters were available separately! I shall have to have another word with them. (I do use the same quick-release fittings as you do and have a water trap as listed as item no.3 on your scan from the Clarke catalogue, by the way.)

 

Another possiblilty, although I still believe I saw dust coming out of my staple gun yesterday, is that I placed the coach bodies on a sheet of plastic that had previously been used to protect the bench from over spray. When I ran my hand over the sheet, there turned out to be a layer of fine, loose paint dust left as a residue from when I painted the 4 CIG last month. I cannot be sure that this is the same stuff that has found its way onto the present models, but will be very careful to use a fresh piece of polythene sheet in future.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[ozzyo]

Thanks for all the information OzzyO,

Another possiblilty, although I still believe I saw dust coming out of my staple gun yesterday, is that I placed the coach bodies on a sheet of plastic that had previously been used to protect the bench from over spray. When I ran my hand over the sheet, there turned out to be a layer of fine, loose paint dust left as a residue from when I painted the 4 CIG last month. I cannot be sure that this is the same stuff that has found its way onto the present models, but will be very careful to use a fresh piece of polythene sheet in future.

All the best,

Colin

 

I think that that sounds more like the cause of your troubles with the dust Colin, but fitting an in-line filter would not be a bad thing.

 

You also mentioned about the air filter I'll get a couple of photos of the one that's fitted to my compressor for you latter.

 

OzzyO.

[Pete Harvey]

Colin

 

It may be that on one pass weather it be with an airbrush or rattle can you were holding it a little too far away and the paint was virtually dry as it reached the model then ob the next pass this would show up as the effect that you have.

 

I have had that in the past and there is not much you can do but let it dry thoroughly and flat the model back and start again.

[Colin parks]

Colin

 

It may be that on one pass weather it be with an airbrush or rattle can you were holding it a little too far away and the paint was virtually dry as it reached the model then ob the next pass this would show up as the effect that you have.

 

I have had that in the past and there is not much you can do but let it dry thoroughly and flat the model back and start again.

 

Hi Pete,

 

I know the effect you are talking of, but that has not turned out to be the reason for the unusual texture of the paint and I have now found what the problem was:

 

The tin of paint is contaminated with a fine granular material. Having smeared some of the paint on a flat piece of plasticard, it was immediately obvious that there were tiny specks of the same stuff that had landed on the model in the painted area. When I looked at the lid of the tin, there were tiny specks there too. I have tried a new tin of paint, sprayed right next to the grainy sample and there are no problems at all with the 'new' tin (the bad one was only opened five weeks ago).

 

The bodies have been rubbed down and a coat of non pebble-dash H 27 applied. I always use a second lamp when spraying so that I can see that the paint is going on 'wet' - as suggested by Ian Rathbone in his book.

 

I shall just have to put it down to experience. The dust on the staple gun's nose has turned out to have come from tailor's chalk marks on the fabric close to where I was stapling it - stupid me!

 

All the best and good to hear from you,

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

I think that that sounds more like the cause of your troubles with the dust Colin, but fitting an in-line filter would not be a bad thing.

 

You also mentioned about the air filter I'll get a couple of photos of the one that's fitted to my compressor for you latter.

 

OzzyO.

 

Hi OzzyO,

 

I didn't see your reply before answering Pete Harvey's. The problem is definitely in the paint, so I will not panic and buy even more fittings just yet! My water trap has the same yellow object in it at the top which looks like a filter. It is definitely the same filter as you show in your picture, so all the precautions to deliver clean air had been taken it seems.

 

Once I cleaned the airbrush and then examined it, I could see some of the offending particles laying in the bottom of the cavity of the brush below the cup (the paint pigment itself had been flushed away with the cleaning solvent).

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[ozzyo]

Hello Colin,

 

no problems with that, all I was trying to do was help. One thing that may help to stop this happing again is to strain the paint through a small section of ladies tights of fine section (say 20 or finer denireur) [don't use fish net tights!] before it goes into your air brush. This should remove any large particulates from the paint. It may take a bit longer to do but it can work out to be worth it in the end.

 

OzzyO.

[Colin parks]

Hello Colin,

 

no problems with that, all I was trying to do was help. One thing that may help to stop this happing again is to strain the paint through a small section of ladies tights of fine section (say 20 or finer denireur) [don't use fish net tights!] before it goes into your air brush. This should remove any large particulates from the paint. It may take a bit longer to do but it can work out to be worth it in the end.

 

OzzyO.

 

Thanks OzzyO.

 

I certainly have had a good lesson in paint and airbrush hygiene. I shall not be using any paints in future without testing them on a trial piece of plastic sheet first and seeing just what is going on. The thing is that I spend relatively little time painting models in relation to the amount of time building them: 100 hours making something and 3 hours to paint it would sum up this project. So, I have not gained much experience of airbrushing and the problems that can be encountered.

 

This has been a very close shave with distaster!

 

All the best,

 

Colin

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

The final few bits have been added to the chassis of the motor coach.

 

This is the second arc chute (the box that has a louvred front) - didn't like the first one. There is a rather tongue-in-cheek generator set to the right of the large box. The other boxes on this side now have their handles and hinges and that is about it. Off to the paint shop.

 

 

 

 

Hmm. Where are those 4 SUB drawings?!

[The Evil Bus Driver]

Hello Colin,

 

no problems with that, all I was trying to do was help. One thing that may help to stop this happing again is to strain the paint through a small section of ladies tights of fine section (say 20 or finer denireur) [don't use fish net tights!] before it goes into your air brush. This should remove any large particulates from the paint. It may take a bit longer to do but it can work out to be worth it in the end.

 

OzzyO.

 

Muslin cloth perhaps? Or is that too fine?

[Colin parks]

Muslin cloth perhaps? Or is that too fine?

 

Hi TEBD,

 

Thanks for your advice, but the problem seems confined to one faulty tin of paint. This morning I have checked the two bodies re-painted last night with paint from the new tin and they do not have the same grityness as before.

 

The smeared-on paint form the first tin on the test piece does. It's a mystery as to what it is in the paint, but it is very fine and not caused by spraying If you look at the close-up of the painted motor coach on page 10, the size of the particles can be scaled from the 0.5mm dia. holes nearby. This makes them about 0.1 -0.2mm in size, so it would have needed a very fine filter to have stopped them getting through. Muslin cloth, of which I have plenty would be too coarse as a filter and also runs the risk of introducing cotton fibres into the paint.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

Just a last word (and photo) on the paint problem. The left hand patch was sprayed yesterday from the fresh tin of Humbrol matt 27. The right hand splodge is from the rogue tin. The particles can be seen in the right hand paint quite clearly. Excuse the residual dust that is a hazard of my work.

 

 

Meanwhile I am pondering just how to paint the area of the HAL bodies above the doors where the BR blue fades into a gungy grey colour. It means having to spray the paint in a dead level line. I am wondering if a card mask overhanging the gutters and not quite touching the roof would allow the blue land on the roof in a suitably straight but fuzzy line. Hmm.

 

Colin

[SRman]

I can't speak for the blue livery roof weathering but I always recall a slight reddish tinge on the roof area of green liveried Bulleid EMUs.

[MJI]

A gap between mask and surface works well as I annoyingly found out when spraying a DMU (mask lifted).

 

Suggest blue first then mask.

 

Also use test pieces to work out a gap.

 

3mm gave me a 2mm or so wide fuzzy bit, so try 10mm and go from there

[Colin parks]

I can't speak for the blue livery roof weathering but I always recall a slight reddish tinge on the roof area of green liveried Bulleid EMUs.

 

Thanks for the advice SRman.

 

I sway between using track colour Precision Paints 'Sleeper Grime' and using a 50:50 mix of black and red oxide. For this model I shall take your advice and have little 'fire' in the weathering paint colour.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

A gap between mask and surface works well as I annoyingly found out when spraying a DMU (mask lifted).

 

Suggest blue first then mask.

 

Also use test pieces to work out a gap.

 

3mm gave me a 2mm or so wide fuzzy bit, so try 10mm and go from there

 

Thanks MJI,

 

As it happens, I have sprayed the blue first, as you suggest here (before reading your post). An experiment with card and gaps thereof will be done this afternoon. This dirty area is a prominent characteristic of these HALs and the gutterless 4 SUBs too, so it is worth getting it right. I did try masking the roof and letting the tape overhang the gutter by 2mm to see if the blue would fade towards the gutter. It didn't. Mind you, the gutters are only 1mm high, so three times less gap than you advise and not enough overhang (or possibly the spraying angle was too low as the main concern was to get an even coat on the sides this time).

 

Meanwhile, I have shot myself in the foot somewhat by painting the roofs/sides before the cab fronts. It is going to be a pain to mask the sides to paint the cabs (twice as it involves two coats of yellow). The sides are nicely covered in BR blue (with no grit!) and need to rest a couple of days befroe it is safe to apply masking tape to them.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[ozzyo]

Meanwhile, I have shot myself in the foot somewhat by painting the roofs/sides before the cab fronts. It is going to be a pain to mask the sides to paint the cabs (twice as it involves two coats of yellow). The sides are nicely covered in BR blue (with no grit!) and need to rest a couple of days befroe it is safe to apply masking tape to them.

All the best,

Colin

 

Hello Colin,

 

I would have thought that was the way to go with painting this unit. Then get the joint line between the roof and the sides to look correct. Then mask the sides and roof off and apply an off white (or light grey) and then the yellow to the cab fronts. I'm thinking that the yellow will go right up to the body sides at the front?

 

OzzyO.

[Colin parks]

Hello Colin,

 

I would have thought that was the way to go with painting this unit. Then get the joint line between the roof and the sides to look correct. Then mask the sides and roof off and apply an off white (or light grey) and then the yellow to the cab fronts. I'm thinking that the yellow will go right up to the body sides at the front?

 

OzzyO.

 

Hi OzzyO,

 

You are probably right about the painting order. It is just that i have always done it the other way around. I can see now that wrapping tape around the side is the easier option.

 

All the best,

 

Colin