Colin parks Posted October 26, 2012 Author Share Posted October 26, 2012 Perhaps we could stop this superglue theme. It is beginning to sound like the 'Shoreham Power Station Max Wall/Miller's aunt's house' situation I had on my 4 CIG topic. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Styrene usually holds its shape after being heated to c 100 degrees, so I would think an oven setting of 200 is too much. I like the idea of preheating the moulds though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted October 26, 2012 Author Share Posted October 26, 2012 Styrene usually holds its shape after being heated to c 100 degrees, so I would think an oven setting of 200 is too much. I like the idea of preheating the moulds though. Hi Miss Prism, As I said before, the 200C setting was the air temp. in the oven. I think the styrene sheet only got to about about half that. If the oven was any cooler, it would have taken ages for the forming process to occur, think of it like a baked alaska cake: use a really hot oven and cook the outside before melting the filling! As it was, the rate of one roof per 20 mins. was about the average: 2 mins pre-heat formers, 4-5 mins. in oven, 5 mins. outside kitchen door to cool and the rest for removing the roof from the formers. All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vin Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Hi Colin, Thanks for the clarification, i've made a couple of mouldings this way and only had the oven at 80degrees with the mould pre heated until the light went off and 5mins is enough to soften the plastic. Even today I had to stick in two bogie frames that were moulded badly but also had brass bearings and wiring connected. Keep up the good work. Regards Vin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Very neat work as usual Colin. I hope your stomach bug won't last long. I notice that you mention a spare set of roofs for the "next project". What have you in mind or is that secret? Cheers Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted October 26, 2012 Author Share Posted October 26, 2012 Feeling well enough to try a little marking out of the cab fronts. The l/h windows have will have frames which will be added later. I shall have to study photos to make sure these window are the right shape. From what the pictures show, it would appear that the glass in the l/h frame is as wide as the driver's window pane on the right, but not as high. The witness lines aroumd the l/h windows were drawn to locate the positions of the outer frames - before realising that the panes should be wider. The difference is subtle, but an essential characteristic of these and other Bulleid-designed EMUs. So this might not be the definitive pair of ends. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted October 26, 2012 Author Share Posted October 26, 2012 Tonight will be the test of the theory - Tin HAL if it works or No HAL if it doesn't: All the 20 thou. laminating has been done to all sides, taking great care to apply with a very sparing amount of solvent. Venting holes have been made on the larger 'panels. Most holes will be covered by the strip of 10 thou. sheet to come below window level or obscured by partitions. More than wait I cannot do and look for signs of solvent inclusions melting their way through to the outer surface. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 Hi Colin. Another feature that cropped up when building your 2-HAL, is the way the cab's corners are set back behind the headstock, giving the 'flat-ended' cabs' outer panels more of a 'swept-back' angle Close-up seen here on preserved 4-SUB This feature appears to be common to all SR design emus. Even more prominent on the ex-LSWR 3-SUBs. Hope I'm making sense. Regards, Frank Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted October 27, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 27, 2012 Feeling well enough to try a little marking out of the cab fronts. The l/h windows have will have frames which will be added later. I shall have to study photos to make sure these window are the right shape. From what the pictures show, it would appear that the glass in the l/h frame is as wide as the driver's window pane on the right, but not as high. The witness lines aroumd the l/h windows were drawn to locate the positions of the outer frames - before realising that the panes should be wider. The difference is subtle, but an essential characteristic of these and other Bulleid-designed EMUs. So this might not be the definitive pair of ends. Colin The l/h windows were the one that opened to allow the driver to lean out and change the headcode. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted October 27, 2012 Author Share Posted October 27, 2012 Very neat work as usual Colin. I hope your stomach bug won't last long. I notice that you mention a spare set of roofs for the "next project". What have you in mind or is that secret? Cheers Simon Hi Simon, Feeling better now. It must have been the Llanddewi plague. As for what might come next, that's 4 you to guess and SUBject to secrecy at present! All the best, Colin P.S. What an excellent subject you raised re. loco building. Mark and I were discussing the matter only recently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted October 27, 2012 Author Share Posted October 27, 2012 Hi Colin. Another feature that cropped up when building your 2-HAL, is the way the cab's corners are set back behind the headstock, giving the 'flat-ended' cabs' outer panels more of a 'swept-back' angle Close-up seen here on preserved 4-SUB This feature appears to be common to all SR design emus. Even more prominent on the ex-LSWR 3-SUBs. Hope I'm making sense. Regards, Frank Ah yes, Frank. Another subtle feature not to forget. I note that the Tin HALs have steps over the buffers as well. I shall have to resort to metalwork for those. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 I'll look forward to that next SUBject after the HAL, too! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted October 27, 2012 Author Share Posted October 27, 2012 The l/h windows were the one that opened to allow the driver to lean out and change the headcode. Thanks for that Budgie. I know the windows performed that function, it is just that to me at first glance, I had assumed that the actual window panes were the same dimensions. Having stared at some pictures last night and gauging from grab handles etc., I think the window glazing is the same width on both left and right hand sides, with the hinged pane being approx. 3" less in overall height (1.5" less at base and 1.5" less at the top than the r/h window pane). From the one picture I have seen, changing the headcode whilst leaning out of the window was a tortuous business and even more so if it was raining! Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted October 27, 2012 Author Share Posted October 27, 2012 I'll look forward to that next SUBject after the HAL, too! Hi SRman, I should have qualified that statement by saying: "If the Tin HAL sides don't melt.". Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted October 27, 2012 Author Share Posted October 27, 2012 One apology to make. I have found that the Mike King drawing does have the correct pipework on the trailer coach plan. I had chopped through the paper, for the purpose of marking out the sides, just where a letter indicated the corrct end elevation to use. Sorry about that. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted October 27, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 27, 2012 Impressive stuff... the window cutting looks exquisite. Looking forward to see how assembly develops because it seems to be going really well so far... don't worry I've just knocked on some wood, not that I'm superstitious of course Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted October 27, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 27, 2012 I like these constructions, following with interest Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted October 27, 2012 Author Share Posted October 27, 2012 Impressive stuff... the window cutting looks exquisite. Looking forward to see how assembly develops because it seems to be going really well so far... don't worry I've just knocked on some wood, not that I'm superstitious of course Oh yes griff, I've been filling my 'lovin' cup' with that Liquid Poly and there's one thing I know etc., etc.,! I am checking the sides every couple of hours for signs of the dreaded solvent-inclusions. As you can see, I have kept most panelling to minimal size, following your words of warning. The last layers to go on will be 10 thou. onto the 20 thou. top and bottom. Given that all goes to plan, the sides will be almost flush-glazed by just placing the glazing in the recesses created so far. Window cutting has all been done under magnification - see picture of lamp used in 4 CIG topic. These days I cheat! Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted October 27, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 27, 2012 It's not cheating, it's just a sensible precaution against advancing years Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted October 27, 2012 Author Share Posted October 27, 2012 One last photo before going away until Thursday. At least when I return, the sides will have rested and any adverse signs of solvent damage should have started to appear. Tonight the horizontal 10 thou. strips have been added top and bottom. These strips form small slots, into which the glazing will locate. The top light area will be pared back to form a slot for the glazing there. The recess is shallower in this area due to the droplight layer in the door. Once the last piece is attached, a strip of 20 thou. x 3mm wide to locate side to roof, it will form a slot to pop the toplight door glazing into place. This will then mean almost all glazing will only need glueing on the bottom edge. One last thing. I do not mind anyone downloading any images posted here by me for personal use, but images in 'Personal Message' format are NOT! I do do not know how anyone has managed to hack into a recent personal conversation I have been having with another RMweb member, but images have been indicated as having been downloaded. In one case this runs into double figures. Whoever you are, cease and desist form this abuse of the system. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 That really is looking impressive, Colin, I well remember my early days of scratchbuilding sides from card (I couldn't get platicard in those days), using razor blades. I don't have the patience any more myself, but applaud and admire yours. Looking through the Alan Williams book, there is a shot (previously mentioned by someone else) of 2694 in BR blue with full yellow ends on a Portsmouth service with two 2BILs, showing some useful roof detail on the HAL. I hadn't noticed this before in all the years I have owned the book but the second unit in that photo is one of the hybrid BILs with a Bulleid style DTC (fourth vehicle in the train). Unfortunately the angle of the shot means that not much useful detail can be gleaned from it as far as coach sides or trailing ends go. A funny thought occurred to me (but don't read too much into it!): if you had chosen to model 2700, the roof join would have been easier to disguise on the DTC because, for some reason, that had the extra gutter line along the top of the doors, whereas the DMBS was a standard 4SUB vehicle with the high gutter line only. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Hi Colin. A couple of quick things. When I built my Tin Hal I had the sides running up to the rppf centre-line with no join and made the floor removable. Now. In Fed 82 I measured 024, the Ex 4Sub stores unit. The driver's windows were as follows; Driver's side apperture 23.5" wide x 31" high. Opening window apperture 23" x 29"(inside the metal frame). The frame being an additional 2.5" wide but this 2.5" consisted of both the fixed and the opening halves of the frame. I measured the bottom edge of the drivers window to be 39.5" up from the bottom edge of the front steel panel. Hope this makes sense to you. The handrails above the front windows were 28.5" long over their outside edges. The centre flat panel of the front was 18" wide crease to crease. Trust you got the smaller driver's side door. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 I've got the Driver's marked down as 1'- 8" wide. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 I've got the Driver's marked down as 1'- 8" wide. Mmmm! Interesting. Is, maybe, the Tin Hal different. On an unknown date now, I measured S10307 from a 4Sub and also had 23" wide. The MRC plan book suggests 22" but is end on, so account must be taken of the angled panel. Mike King's drawing suggests 23" but did he measure a 4Sub the same as me and not a Tin Hal.??? Perhaps we can ask Mike himself if anyone knows how. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Mmmm! Interesting. Is, maybe, the Tin Hal different. On an unknown date now, I measured S10307 from a 4Sub and also had 23" wide. The MRC plan book suggests 22" but is end on, so account must be taken of the angled panel. Mike King's drawing suggests 23" but did he measure a 4Sub the same as me and not a Tin Hal.??? Perhaps we can ask Mike himself if anyone knows how. Cheers Dave Whoops...Red face time Sorry Dave. I missed out the vital word "door" , as in Driver's door = 1'- 8" wide Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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