RMweb Premium melmerby Posted October 24, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 24, 2012 Hi all My layout is very loosely based on the GWR around Oxford and as such would see locos from all of the "Big 4". However I have never seen a photo of a B1 in Oxford and wonder whether they were used on any of the cross country services that went through there? I know they used to get to Birmingham (and beyond) on NE-SW services on a regular basis in BR days but haven't seen any evidence of their use to Oxford. Although my period is "between the wars" some of my rolling stock is post WW2 and hence B1s might make an appearance! Cheers Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Photo here of a B1 on Oxford shed http://www.flickr.com/photos/arthurmorley/4256165067/ Probably came of an interegional working off the ex GC line, via Woodford Halse & Banbury. I would guess not rare visitors. http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2841671 Brit15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 A few more pictures of B1s at Oxford and beyond: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lmbs101483846987/6113562290/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/6355159837/in/photostream http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=b1+oxford&start=211&um=1&hl=en&rlz=1R2ACAW_en&biw=1093&bih=498&tbm=isch&tbnid=8Ktp82CX6B0Q0M:&imgrefurl=http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic.php%3Ff%3D32%26t%3D33398%26start%3D15&docid=3CChHYiCDw77sM&imgurl=http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7259/7000863443_6bc286df28_z.jpg&w=640&h=418&ei=nYuIULaIB8PuiQKTr4HACQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=775&vpy=173&dur=1515&hovh=181&hovw=278&tx=185&ty=93&sig=117988853186523105580&page=13&tbnh=141&tbnw=224&ndsp=16&ved=1t:429,r:26,s:200,i:82 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted October 25, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 25, 2012 Thanks for those. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Cambridge had B1's, and 31A locos certainly worked to Oxford (I have pics of Clauds K3's & B12's, but none of B1's though) so I would say they did. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 25, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 25, 2012 There was a regular weekend working off the GC to Swindon via Oxford and Foxhall Curve at Didcot and in later years it was a B1 turn - hence a Sunday morning visit to Swindon shed would ensure sight of a B1 (I think it was a Sheffield turn but am not certain on that). Must have been much nicer in earlier years when it saw much more varied motive power including both GC and exGN atlantics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Bear Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Interesting question as relates to my layout too, although I've pre-empted the answer by buying a B1 anyway. The night mail services between York and Swindon loco power alternated yearly between GW and LNER in early years Atlantics, then later years B1s as Mike says. This is covered in BRJ18. Other services like SR/LNER (Newcastle-Bournemouth) it doesn't mention but there's a picture of a B17 heading north out of Oxford in "Oxford to Birmingham: Portrait of a Famous Route" in late 1940s, possibly with this train? That'll be my excuse for getting a B17 too. Hope this helps a bit Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted October 25, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 25, 2012 I've several books with LNER locos in on services through Oxford, but none show a B1, that's why I asked the question. It seems from the answers that they were definitely around! Maybe an excuse for a B1 and/or some other LNER locos and some rolling stock. I wonder what LNER goods locos would have been seen? Maybe a GWR ROD alongside an LNER ROD or other Robinson loco maybe? Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 25, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 25, 2012 I've several books with LNER locos in on services through Oxford, but none show a B1, that's why I asked the question. It seems from the answers that they were definitely around! Maybe an excuse for a B1 and/or some other LNER locos and some rolling stock. I wonder what LNER goods locos would have been seen? Maybe a GWR ROD alongside an LNER ROD or other Robinson loco maybe? Keith Doubt if any were seen to be honest - but you never know what might happen. Trains off the GC usually worked to the yard at Banbury and trains to the GC worked to Woodford - in both cases usually for re-marshalling although the war would have brought through workings of some sort in all probability. On the Bicester route the LNER was a long way away in freight terms and there were several intermediate yards so I would think through working of freight engines was not too common although, again, specials might have brought the occasional loco. Although it might be a bit late for you the situation regarding clearance of ex LNER locos onto WR lines in 1963 was fairly restrictive compared with locos of the Western's immediate neighbours. B1s were quite widely cleared on the WR but it included the route from Bicester (and the Marlow branch!). The only other Eastern locos cleared outside the London area were - A4 - Paddington to Exeter via the B&H A3 - Banbury Jcn to Banbury only K1 - Aylesbury to Princes Risborough B16/2 - Aylesbury to Princes Risborough, and Cement Sdgs to Banbury Jcn in emergency only J94 - Aylesbury to Princes Risborough O4 - Cleared as WR 38XX V2 - quite extensive clearance on the 'northern' mainline (via Bicester) but only allowed between Aynho Jcn & Didcot in an emergency. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 No mention of K3 or D16/3 or B12 there - and I have pics (not mine so can't ppublish them) of these at Oxford? Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Bear Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Although it might be a bit late for you the situation regarding clearance of ex LNER locos onto WR lines in 1963 was fairly restrictive compared with locos of the Western's immediate neighbours. B1s were quite widely cleared on the WR but it included the route from Bicester (and the Marlow branch!). The only other Eastern locos cleared outside the London area were - A4 - Paddington to Exeter via the B&H A3 - Banbury Jcn to Banbury only K1 - Aylesbury to Princes Risborough B16/2 - Aylesbury to Princes Risborough, and Cement Sdgs to Banbury Jcn in emergency only J94 - Aylesbury to Princes Risborough O4 - Cleared as WR 38XX V2 - quite extensive clearance on the 'northern' mainline (via Bicester) but only allowed between Aynho Jcn & Didcot in an emergency. What would determine the restrictions, Mike? Axle loading or loading guage - latter I'd have guessed would have been unlikely. Or is it procedural, have to be tested. Or simply we don't like inferior foreign engines? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 25, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 25, 2012 No mention of K3 or D16/3 or B12 there - and I have pics (not mine so can't ppublish them) of these at Oxford? Stewart Was the B12 still running in 1963? But it is a point worth remembering Stewart - not every Running Foreman or Control Office was top notch when it came to reading route clearances for locos (and neither were Drivers - who probably didn't have a copy anyway!). The process of clearance than was based on both axle weights (and hammer blow) as well as physical limits such as d throw and various other things - thus some of the clearances I quoted were very heavily speed restricted (eg A3s at Banbury were restricted to very low speeds on the Goods Loops which was most likely a matter of physical clearance and not weight while B1s were restricyed to 20 mph on the Bourne End - Marlow line which was equally certainly down to axle loading). Many of the clearances in the book had almost certainly resulted from a particular job - for instance the Marlow branch was undoubtedly specifically checked for a train which a B1 was to work because it was booked in advance, whereas the K3 probably 'just turned up' at Oxford (even if that happened everyday for a month or so) and paddington never heard about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Oops sorry, never saw the 1963 date there! Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Bear Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I've several books with LNER locos in on services through Oxford, but none show a B1, that's why I asked the question. Keith, I'm wondering what locos the sources you have did show and whether it said what services they were on? Thanks, Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted November 4, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 4, 2012 No mention of K3 or D16/3 or B12 there - and I have pics (not mine so can't ppublish them) of these at Oxford? Stewart Hi Stewart The ex GER locos would have been working the on the LNWR Bedford line and would have terminated at the LNWR Oxford station. This only happened after nationalisation. Like you to date I have not seen any reference to B1s working this line, or K3s come to think about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrushVeteran Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Although personally I made no notes on the various 'foriegn' steam locomotive workings through Oxford I remember spotting between 1961 and 1964 and was always pleased to see Eastern Region classes working through on inter-regional workings. B1's frequenly appeared on summer Saturday York-Bournemouth workings utilizing green liveried stock and the relief trains featuring Gresley and Thompson stock. I'm afraid I was more interested in diesels by then and occasionally I would be rewarded by a Brush Type 2 or BRCW Type 2 working through from the GC. Oxford was a great place for the unusual and one of the only places you could see Eastern,Midland,Southern and Western all on the same tracks fairly regularly. I'm sure the likes of Lawrence Waters or Tony Doyle, who are authorities on the workings of the Oxfordshire rail systems over the last fiftly or so years, would be able to provide specific details of individual locomotive class workings through Oxford. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 By LNWR Oxford I guess you mean Rewley Road, which closed in 1951 I believe? After closure all passenger services went to the present day station (though of course rebuilt nowadays). I have in my collection of photos in books and commercial slides various pictures of "our" engines at Oxford (I come from the Cambridge area). I definately have K3, also either B12/3 or D16/3 (not easy to check at the moment, it may actually be both) and others; I'm certain I have B1 in there too. Now as Cambridge B1's lasted longer than the others, and worked the line, I'm pretty certain they would have got to Oxford. The line was really operated as two sections, split at Bletchley, but with a few through workings. When diesels came in, dmu's (1E Bletchley) were used alongside steam locos (usually 1E Bletchley) but with certainly some from 31A Cambridge, and 14E Bedford. As these steam locos went, diesels took over, basically as direct replacements. So class 24/31 etc ran alongside the dmu's. I have more experience of the east end of the line than the west, though I travelled on it quite a few times, and have collected a few books and photos of it. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 During the 1950s/early 1960s, Windsor was a popular destination for excursions. Ex LNE and LMS types could've appeared on these on occasions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted November 4, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 4, 2012 The GC locos would include Directors, at least in the earlier times, which would be coming down from Nottingham with trains from the north going onto to the south coast. Oxford must have been one of few places where there would be a change from one foreign loco (GC/LNER) to another (LSWR/SR) also utilising stock from either, without the host company (GWR) being involved! In the book "At the Heart of The Great Western" it mentions at one time the GC even kept a loco and crew at Oxford GWR shed! Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 4, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 4, 2012 During the 1950s/early 1960s, Windsor was a popular destination for excursions. Ex LNE and LMS types could've appeared on these on occasions. A 'Jubilee' - via the Wycombe branch (published photo) - and a 4F & a 'Crab'(I know about them because I saw them passing Twyford on their return workings) - both via Oxford - are definites. I believe a B1 also made it's way there and that was via the Wycombe branch - part of the working which took the B1 to Marlow as I understand various things I have read. One summer in the very early '60s there seemed to be a regular excursion working to Windsor via Oxford which ran on a weekly basis, one day a week, using a regular path for the return working. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 The GC locos would include Directors, at least in the earlier times, which would be coming down from Nottingham with trains from the north going onto to the south coast. Oxford must have been one of few places where there would be a change from one foreign loco (GC/LNER) to another (LSWR/SR) also utilising stock from either, without the host company (GWR) being involved! In the book "At the Heart of The Great Western" it mentions at one time the GC even kept a loco and crew at Oxford GWR shed! Keith Not quite Oxford but I think this Director is approaching Banbury: 5437_Banbury-possibly_1930s by robertcwp, on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 4, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 4, 2012 Not quite Oxford but I think this Director is approaching Banbury: 5437_Banbury-possibly_1930s by robertcwp, on Flickr I reckon that is definitely Banbury - checks out precisely with the connection to the Down Goods Running Loop in the immediate foreground, Up Main Line Home Signal above the 3rd coach, loco just passing the Up Main (splitting) Inner Home Signal; track layout and signals as they were pre mid 1950s alterations (although pic is obviously earlier than that of course). Signal is off for the train to proceed Up Main Line and as Banbury South's Distant is also off it is almost certainly a through train to somewhere further south which won't be changing engines at Banbury. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted November 4, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 4, 2012 Not quite Oxford but I think this Director is approaching Banbury: 5437_Banbury-possibly_1930s by robertcwp, on Flickr Are the first two coaches Maunsell brakes? They seem to have the characteristic recess for the doors. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 melmerby - you have a PM. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted November 12, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 12, 2012 melmerby - you have a PM. Stewart Haven't received it yet. (Monday 10:35AM GMT) Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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