Wright writes.....

[Horsetan]

..... A glance at the pictures above will reveal flywheels which aid smooth running......  

 

Looks like a coreless motor as well.

[t-b-g]

The LMS Garratt makes me think of a man on a bicycle pushing a wheelbarrow.  A strange, puny looking thing compared to Beyer Peacock's proper machines that hadn't been got at by the Derby mafia...

 

I shall now retire behind a suitable wall and await incoming missives from Derby supporters with injured feelings.  Mind you, being Derby types they won't have the strength to lob anything very far, having poor valves and weak bearings.  I shall be able to out pace them with ease.

 

Play fair now! Derby built some very pretty locos and did paint them a nice shade of red. 

[gr.king]

The example I saw briefly at the weekend, which did a quick tour of duty on mini-Grantham, appeared tidily finished and smooth-running, save for a slightly disconcerting initial "tick" suggesting that something wasn't quite clearing something else, somewhere.

 

As others have already pointed out, it's a shame they haven't done anything to stop the mouse entrails from dangling out of the bottom of the cab-boiler unit.

 

Of course, my interest in this L of MS loco arises only as it provides an indicator of the likely quality of the promised O2, in which I shall be interested if and when the delivery of an O2/2 or better still an O2/1 version actually materialises.

Edited March 19, 2014 by gr.king

[LNER4479]

The example I saw briefly at the weekend, which did a quick tour of duty on mini-Grantham, appeared tidily finished and smooth-running, save for a slightly disconcerting initial "tick" suggesting that something wasn't quite clearing something else, somewhere.

Proof, if proof were needed!

 

The disconcerting 'tick' was initially thought to be due to a dislodged slide bar which was readily apparent upon initial examination and easily manipulated back into place. However, the 'tick' persisted and was eventually traced to a distorted sandpipe which was catching on the track. This readily responded to gentle persuasion back into its intended shape with the small pliers and then all was well.

 

I was very impressed with the perfectly smooth, ultra-quiet mechanism. The working headlight (direction dependent) is also a nice touch; obviously the D&E gang will be more used to this sort of thing.

[LNER4479]

Another one heading for e-bay

[Tony Wright]

Test post

[gr.king]

It appears to be working!

[Andy Y]

It appears to be working!

Yes, Tony seems to have an access issue at present. The previous post was me testing it wasn't a server/permissions issue. I've emailed Tony so hopefully he'll be back soon.

[Barry O]

IMG_5492_crop.jpg

Another one heading for e-bay

I would hang on to it until the gears prove themselves in the alternative.....

[gr.king]

Have you definite reason to be concerned about the gears in the Garratt? I know this isn't the principal place in which to discuss these matters, but until I get a new computer fully set up and battle-hardened, I don't have the time to trawl through all the waffle on the RMWeb Heljan Garratt pages, waiting ages for each and every page and its (for me) unwanted number of "clever" features to load up, with the aid of "only" 512MB RAM....

Edited April 2, 2014 by gr.king

[Barry O]

Heljan gear trains are very variable. The o gauge diesels suffer and some of the OO diesels can have their moments.

[Tony Wright]

I would hang on to it until the gears prove themselves in the alternative.....

I cannot comment about the gears in the Heljan Garratt or how long they might last. 

From personal empirical evidence with the actual model reviewed in the next issue of BRM, I can state that it easily hauled 108 wagons around LB with little or no signs of slipping. These were all four-wheeled examples, RTR-based or kit-built. More could have been added but the stability of the train on the end curves was reaching its limit. It ran about four/five circuits, and a short presentation will appear on BRM's website.

This individual model had been to Ally Pally and must have been passed around a bit because a buffer was missing, and another one was almost out of its hole in the beam (the whole thing). Part of the valve gear was also coming adrift and had to be repaired before running could be accomplished. The tank at the 'leading' end was also coming away. I don't imply these observations should be taken as criticisms, but the model appears to be quite delicate. 

[Grafarman]

This individual model had been to Ally Pally and must have been passed around a bit because a buffer was missing, and another one was almost out of its hole in the beam (the whole thing). Part of the valve gear was also coming adrift and had to be repaired before running could be accomplished. The tank at the 'leading' end was also coming away. I don't imply these observations should be taken as criticisms, but the model appears to be quite delicate. 

 

Or the handlers didn't pay due care and attention; I don't understand how 'professional' modellers/retailers can reduce a model to such a state - surely someone should 'fess up to losing the missing buffer at least?   I'd be gutted if one of my models came back in that condition; some people have no respect...

 

 

 

David

[Horsetan]

I cannot comment about the gears in the Heljan Garratt or how long they might last. 

......This individual model had been to Ally Pally and must have been passed around a bit because a buffer was missing, and another one was almost out of its hole in the beam (the whole thing). Part of the valve gear was also coming adrift and had to be repaired before running could be accomplished. The tank at the 'leading' end was also coming away. I don't imply these observations should be taken as criticisms, but the model appears to be quite delicate. 

 

 

Or the handlers didn't pay due care and attention; I don't understand how 'professional' modellers/retailers can reduce a model to such a state - surely someone should 'fess up to losing the missing buffer at least?   I'd be gutted if one of my models came back in that condition; some people have no respect...

 

 

 

Given the frequency with which China-made "new-generation" Hornby engines turn up in spectacularly-damaged states on eBay, this really should come as no surprise.

 

It's one thing demanding to be spoon-fed with ever-higher levels of RTR detail; it's quite another thing learning to handle your new-found riches. Some people are naturally clumsy.....

[Phil Parker]

Or the handlers didn't pay due care and attention; I don't understand how 'professional' modellers/retailers can reduce a model to such a state - surely someone should 'fess up to losing the missing buffer at least?   I'd be gutted if one of my models came back in that condition; some people have no respect...

 

 

 

David

 

 

Well I don't know HOW it came off but at least I know where the missing buffer I found in the Edgeworth fiddle yard belongs now. Assuming I'm right (we had a lot of somewhat worn 1970s and 80s stock on the layout at the show so I'd assumed it had fallen off some of that) then at least it can be reunited with its locomotive.

 

The model is a review item and as such will pass thorough a lot of hands in a short period of time - far more than a normal model. At the show, it was well handled by lots of people and taken on and off the layout several times at the request of the visiting public. It's not fine china though, something like a buffer should stay put with modest handling if it's glued on properly. Give a model to a magazine and it will be poked and prodded, taken apart (I know the early prototype version was partially dismantled more than once) for photos and then have long trains hung off the back to see what happens. "Professional" modellers will do this so the results can be published for everyone else to read.

[Andy Y]

It was probably when I tried to squeeze it past your coaling stage.

[Phil Parker]

Or when you picked it up with two hands but with your arms either side of the lighting pole...

[Oldddudders]

Or the handlers didn't pay due care and attention; I don't understand how 'professional' modellers/retailers can reduce a model to such a state - surely someone should 'fess up to losing the missing buffer at least?   I'd be gutted if one of my models came back in that condition; some people have no respect...

 

 

I have every confidence that your model would be treated with a great deal more respect by the same people. This is, in effect, a manufacturer's sample, rather like the Press Fleet car that Ford lends to the magazines, knowing they will each rev the bejesus out if it and cook the brakes. 

[Grafarman]

I take your point about it being a sample chaps, but I still think it's a shame it was in such poor shape after 'sampling' !

 

Mind you, I bet it would fetch a bit on Ebay after featuring in such illustrious company  

 

 

 

 

David

[Tony Wright]

A couple of years ago in BRM I reported on making a GNR-tender K3 using the Bachmann product for the loco and London Road Kit for the tender. The loco was altered to right-hand drive and a substitute cab from SE Finecast was fitted. It didn't look too bad but the running was horrendous - jerky, noisy and wobbly. 

What to do then? I mulled over trying to get a replacement chassis, but since Bachmann had donated the original model for the project, this seemed a trifle cheeky. So, a SE Finecast set of frames was ordered, one of the same firm's motor/gear-mount combinations and a set of 22mm drivers and pony from Markits. The real K3s had 5'-8" drivers (22 and a bit mm) but since the scrapping size of tyres might eventually make the wheels 5' 6", then I thought OK. Bachmann's drivers come out at about 21mm, which is a bit too small. It is quite noticeable in comparison.

 

 

Here the frames are made up and the motor installed. The Bachmann pony truck was used - I added a brass bush and a shouldered screw for retention. The replacement wheels just squeeze in. Using the original dud chassis as a guide, I altered the profile of the etched frames to suit - a bit of trial and error, with the risk of too much of the latter!

 

 

I used the Bachmann cylinders, motion and valve gear, but for Romford crank pins the bearings in the big end and return crank are much too big. So, I inserted suitable brass bushes, opening out the original holes to make them a friction-fit. The centre piece of the motion support bracket was snipped off and a brass strip substituted.

 

 

Cylinders and motion fixed on - the cylinder stretcher is screw-fixed and the motion support bracket and cross shafts just super-glued in place.

 

 

Though the running was smooth, the valve spindles tended to bounce up and down in operation (they do on the Bachmann originals!). I just drilled a hole through the valve guides and inserted a piece of brass wire (black arrow) - the simplest of cures and one worth doing on your Bachmann K3s. 

 

 

Bigger wheels, though visually much better cause problems underneath Bachmann's footplating. So, out with the dentist's burr in the mini-drill and the offending metal was removed.

 

 

Here's the result. An unusual variation and a much better-running loco.

 

A more expanded report might appear in the pages of BRM. 

Edited April 3, 2014 by Tony Wright

[Tony Wright]

Oh, I should have added to the above that extra lead ballast was glued inside the body. Result, it'll haul 40 wagons with ease!

[Iain Popplewell]

Hi Tony,

  The photo you posted showing how you eliminated the vertical movement of the valve spindles is also excellent for showing the amount of for want of a better word "slop" to leave between the frames,wheels and connecting rods.For a beginner to etched kits like myself a picture like this is worth more than a thousand words,it's just the sort of thing that makes RMWEB so useful.

 I'd also like to thank you for your Wright Stuff making locomotive kits videos,together with Iain Rice's two books these are my bibles when it comes to kit making.I say several complimentary things about them in my layout link below.Your videos are well worth buying, if for no other reason than they taught me how to solder!

[gr.king]

Hello Tony,

 

Is that new thin brass stretcher simply glued to the plastic remnants of the original motion bracket? I can see of course that the whole thing is also braced by the insertion of the dummy weighshaft into the frames.

 

I have the last few tiny self-tapping (or at least very hard) screws from an originally almost-full box given to me by a former maker of doll's houses, 0.9 x 5mm, which are brilliant for inconspicuously strenthening glued joints such as that one. I'd really love to get some more of them, but whereas the box I was given was box of 100, the only current UK source I can find sells only packets of 10 at grossly inflated prices. A certain Emporium won't stock the boxes of 100 as they don't believe there would be a sufficient market and sufficient margin in it for them, and although I could easily buy them in boxed 100s at tolerable prices from Germany, where they are made, the postage charge on just a handful of boxes, or worse still on only one, would be ridiculous. I can't believe that there's no market and no supplier for boxes of these screws in the UK, but my search (including doll's house suppliers) drew a blank. I'm absolutely sure that the chap who gave them to me wouldn't have gone to Germany to get them, or would personally import just a few at a premium price. How daft that this problem should exist in today's "global market"!

 

Out of interest, did you initially try just lightly reaming the Bachmann K3 chassis to take 1/8" axles and scale sized wheels? I've heard different reports on the level of success produced by that method.

 

I do by the way promise that I am not far now from starting a certain pacific loco conversion.......

Edited April 4, 2014 by gr.king

[Tony Wright]

Hello Tony,

 

Is that new thin brass stretcher simply glued to the plastic remnants of the original motion bracket? I can see of course that the whole thing is also braced by the insertion of the dummy weighshaft into the frames.

 

I have the last few tiny self-tapping (or at least very hard) screws from an originally almost-full box given to me by a former maker of doll's houses, 0.9 x 5mm, which are brilliant for inconspicuously strenthening glued joints such as that one. I'd really love to get some more of them, but whereas the box I was given was box of 100, the only current UK source I can find sells only packets of 10 at grossly inflated prices. A certain Emporium won't stock the boxes of 100 as they don't believe there would be a sufficient market and sufficient margin in it for them, and although I could easily buy them in boxed 100s at tolerable prices from Germany, where they are made, the postage charge on just a handful of boxes, or worse still on only one, would be ridiculous. I can't believe that there's no market and no supplier for boxes of these screws in the UK, but my search (including doll's house suppliers) drew a blank. I'm absolutely sure that the chap who gave them to me wouldn't have gone to Germany to get them, or would personally import just a few at a premium price. How daft that this problem should exist in today's "global market"!

 

Out of interest, did you initially try just lightly reaming the Bachmann K3 chassis to take 1/8" axles and scale sized wheels? I've heard different reports on the level of success produced by that method.

 

I do by the way promise that I am not far now from starting a certain pacific loco conversion.......

Thanks for the comments, Graeme. 

 

The thin brass strip is, as you surmise, is just super-glued to the tops of the original motion support brackets. The original centre piece of the bracket did not fit easily onto the 'open' frames of replacement chassis, so I just snipped it away. The remains just butted nicely onto the outside edges of the frames and the brass strip was just glued across their tops, fixing everything to the tops of the frames. This is secure enough in use, but the joint (brass to brass) would break easily with just a twist of the pliers if removal were subsequently necessary. The dummy 'weighshafts' (fixed in full forward gear both sides) were pulled out of the original Bachmann chassis and shortened. I then drilled the ends to take a piece of .7mm brass rod, which was super-glued in place. These fitted perfectly with a slot in the SE frames and were attached with solder - in and out mightily quickly otherwise you breath cyanide gas and just before you die the plastic weigh shaft turns to goo! For those wanting to live longer or those who can't solder with speed, epoxy might be a means of securing the items, or even superglue, though the latter is inclined to fracture too easily. I'm reluctant to advocate 'risky practices' because some 'ambulance chaser' might be likely to to see an opportunity for litigation, but 'risky' unsoldering does allow later removal of such items with ease. In the original description I said they were just super-glued in place - an obvious lie, though admitted here! Superglue just held the wire in place in the ends.   

 

Self-tapping screws? I must admit I never use these items, preferring to tap holes beforehand - 6, 8 and 10 BA being the most common. Even 'blind' holes (holes that don't go right through) can be done with care. The reason I dislike self-tapping screws (even though they're used by the RTR boys) is because (correct me if I'm wrong, please) I believe they're really meant for one action only - to hold together two items permanently; thus not meant to be removed and re-inserted as needed - taking loco bodies off for instance. This is especially true where the 'tapped' material is soft - plastic or white metal, etc.

 

As for reaming the Bachmann chassis to take nearer-to-scale wheels, it never crossed my mind. Why? Because the thing was such a wretched runner in the first place, it probably made no sense. Even though it was new, there was so much slop everywhere it was never going to run properly - gears, bearings, rods - you name it. I suppose it comes back again to my observations with regard to RTR chassis versus kit or scratch-built ones. Because of the need to negotiate tighter radii, every RTR 'steam' chassis I've examined has way too much slop. Every one I've made (for customers and myself) has just the minimum necessary, and they all run the better for it - smoother, quieter and with much greater tractive effort (Hornby's P2 being the exception). But, they have to be made, and with fewer and fewer modellers actually 'making' things these days (or so it appears to me), then perhaps the day of the kit-built loco (out of necessity in the past) has significantly gone. But, we've been there before with regard to that topic.

 

All the above said, I think you're conversions are a fantastic idea and I thoroughly endorse what you've been doing - a return to the 'good old days', but to a much higher standard. However, isn't it significant that out of five K3s I own, the three which work the best - smoothly, quietly, powerfully, etc - are the ones where I made the frames? The two Bachmann-powered ones (though nowhere near as bad as the one I've just replaced) don't run anywhere near as well. 

Edited April 4, 2014 by Tony Wright

[Tony Wright]

Hi Tony,

  The photo you posted showing how you eliminated the vertical movement of the valve spindles is also excellent for showing the amount of for want of a better word "slop" to leave between the frames,wheels and connecting rods.For a beginner to etched kits like myself a picture like this is worth more than a thousand words,it's just the sort of thing that makes RMWEB so useful.

 I'd also like to thank you for your Wright Stuff making locomotive kits videos,together with Iain Rice's two books these are my bibles when it comes to kit making.I say several complimentary things about them in my layout link below.Your videos are well worth buying, if for no other reason than they taught me how to solder!

Thanks for the kind words Iain, and I'm glad the DVDs were of use.

 

I'm also glad the most recent pictures were a help.

 

It's rarely I do much in the way of modelling these days (depression is not to be recommended for anyone!) and I no longer attend shows as a demonstrator/speaker/layout operator/punter, etc. However, I can occasionally manage to tackle the likes of the K3 new frames project, and it's nice to know it's appreciated.

 

Best wishes.