Wright writes.....

[jwealleans]

I found the cab sat better if pushed as far forward as it would go

I have a feeling you're right, Tony - the curve of the Bachmann footplate didn't match the SEF cabside and I had to fill a small gap along the bottom of the cab sides once I'd got it sitting square.  If I think on I'll have a look at the loco next Monday evening and try to jog my memory.

 

Afterthought - by the simple expedient of reading my own workbench thread (starting at page 12) I can see that I did indeed have to fill a gap left by the mismatch of the two curves.

[Guest 2750]

Out of interest, was there a particular reason why Bachmann fitted incorrect size drivers to their K3 model?

 

MickLNER of this parish is lining out a Bachmann K3 for me (why Bachmann never bothered to line the lner version out I do not know).

 

I definitely intend to do something similar to Jonathan's, as I have a BR version with flared top tender which could be used as a donor possibly. Adds some variety to my LNER 1930s fleet.

Edited April 22, 2014 by 2750

[gr.king]

The main block of a V2 chassis, hacked around, might provide the route to a B3 for those not wanting to build a full chassis but willing to re-wheel. Only a thought.......

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Undersize drivers on the Bach K3: the suspicion is that Bachmann were trying to get as much weight as possible into the K3 for tractive purposes. Look at how the cast footplate is tapered to increase in thickness on the underside: that's what makes the undersize drivers necessary. It's an unfortunate compromise, plenty of space in the boiler sides for much more cast ballast then the footplate tapering achieves.

[Tony Wright]

Having promised a picture of the fit of the SE Finecast cab to the Bachmann footplate, my apologies - I'll try and do one tomorrow.

 

As mentioned, I lined the K3 using Modelmasters' BR mixed-traffic lining. Having got the painting and lining bug, I decided to complete work, some of which has been pending for over three years. 

 

 

As is well known, Little Bytham is the result of teamwork - all of us capable of doing something practical for the project. Years ago, Ian Wilson built this Wills C12. If my memory serves (and it serves less well as time progresses), it had a white metal lump for a chassis. This was naturally discarded, and I built a SE Finecast etched replacement. But the body remained a bit unfinished and the painting was just plain black. So, I detailed it, painted and lined it (yesterday and today) and here is the result. As with the K3, I used the Modelmasters product, but a new pack. Half the corners split (the grey/red lining separating) when applying them, resulting in extreme frustration and waste. Not only that, the registration between the corners and the straight bits was 'out of kilter' in some cases. Though I'm reasonably happy with how straight my lining is, close inspection will reveal discrepancies where the straight lining meets the corners in some cases. The red/red boiler band lining also separated frustratingly. This is the first time this has ever happened to me with Modelmasters lining. The new sheet was out of my stock (about five years old). Does it have a shelf life? It's been kept in a drawer, out of sunlight and in a centrally-heated room. It's quite a puzzle. In the past I've been entirely happy with it.

 

Of course, proper painters like Larry Goddard will just chuckle - he can do things correctly - but I can only line 'professionally' on scrap. The minute I get near a model proper, the bow pen just blobs, and I give up. 

 

 

For his Christmas present in 2010, I built a Craftsman C12 for Ian. And, it's taken till today for me to finish it. The usual Halfords' satin black acrylic aerosol was applied, but this one's been lined with KEMCO lining - the sheet dating from 1993! So, no deterioration there. I prefer the Modelmasters because the corners are bigger and you can line a cabside with just four corners. The KEMCO corners are too small for this and one has to add straight bits. Though the lining didn't disintegrate, there is the occasional discrepancy between corners and straight bits which is visible in the picture. Also visible (I hope) is just how much crisper the etched-brass kit is than the rather 'lumpen' white metal alternative. 

 

 

I also painted and lined the K1 I've finished recently. This one had the first Modelmasters sheet for lining, so no disintegration. There is still an issue with the registration at the corners, and I've yet to line the valance. 

 

All these models await the finishing touch from Tom Foster.

 

It's an interesting thought, but those lining discrepancies could have been entirely removed with Photoshop. 

[Barry O]

Tony

 

I have given up on transfer lining and gone back to bow pen and paint ( small drop of lighter fluid added to the paint stops it blobbing) and a bit of weathering covers up the odd mistake.

 

I had a close look at some BR mixed traffic lining today (full size) on Black 5s painted at a variety of preservation locations. With the cream and grey being as one and a big gap to the red line I am not certain if any of my BR locos are lined correctly... never mind!

 

The C12 by the way looks an absolute peach!

[coachmann]

Of course, proper painters like Larry Goddard will just chuckle - he can do things correctly - but I can only line 'professionally' on scrap. The minute I get near a model proper, the bow pen just blobs, and I give up. 

Over the years I have tried to assist modellers who wanted to do their own lining, so I'm not one for chuckling at those who try. It cannot be easy when draughtsmen send me their locos, but then I would never make a draughtsman! It probably came with the genes, except that I applied it to 3-dimensional models. 

 

 

I had a close look at some BR mixed traffic lining today (full size) on Black 5s painted at a variety of preservation locations. With the cream and grey being as one and a big gap to the red line I am not certain if any of my BR locos are lined correctly... never mind!

Barry has spotted the fact that the red lining should be some way away from the grey & cream lining. But both Hornby and Bachmann do a fine job of lining nowadays and a pro painter would be hard put to match it's neatness.

 

I have to agree the Craftsman C12 looks a peach, as does the K1. The LNER had some lovely engines and it makes it hard to ignore ones purchasing impulses!

[Guest 2750]

It's the K1 that does it for me. The one class of loco I miss after moving to pre war.

[Mallard60022]

I am going to describe those loco's as handsome. That K1......very handsome indeed. There is hope for me as I have done three different versions of the LNER Van (D127?) and I think they look about as good as that one; yup, I have actually painted them!   Just the loco's that are not black and unlined to sort now..... 

P

[ROY@34F]

Seeing Tony's C12s , I Thought I'd show you my Craftsman kit C12  effort . if I may . Made many years ago , originally to EM , (which I dabbled in briefly)  but since converted to 00 . Sorry , but my photography skills are nil , so not up to your quality Tony .                                                               I think the wheels are Keen/Maygib , and it is fitted with a Portescap motor/gearbox , which I liked at the time . Tried to weather it ! which just about obliterated the HMRS lining !  But , as Tony says , it gives you such a sense of achievement when it's all your own work .

 I had my very fist firing job on '7352 , on coach pilot at Grantham , so I just had to make it .

Regards , Roy .

[Tony Wright]

Many thanks for all the kind comments. 

 

With regard to chuckling Larry, it was more of an observation with reference to those who can, and do, rather than mocking those who can't, but try. I'm with you 100% with regard to folk having a go, and, like you, would never poke fun at those who try. It's those who stubbornly refuse to have a go that I have no time for, as I've said many times. 

 

And, I've had a go with a bow pen and I don't think I'll ever master it. Thus, my lining with such a device is inferior to my lining with transfers. Speaking of transfer lining (again) I've enclosed one or two more pictures.

 

 

This B16/3 is of great antiquity (it even has Hamblings wheels!). I made it from a Nu-Cast kit and scratch-built a chassis for it. It's lined with KEMCO transfers and the weathering is dry-brushed. When you use a camera which takes no prisoners, the results are cruel!

 

 

This is another piece of antiquity - another Nu-Cast product, this time on an original (incorrect) Comet set of B1 frames. It too is KEMCO-lined, but to speed things up I used a spare B1 tender - not Bachmann but Mainline? Or Replica? The dry-brush weathering technique was applied, which promptly started to remove the lining. Have I saved it from a complete mess? If not, I've lived with it for many years.

 

 

Lining professionally done is a joy to behold, as illustrated by Ian Rathbone's work on my London Road K2. Look closely, the cream line is present as well.

 

Folk mentioned proprietary lining, and, originally, Hornby just used red and cream, though it was beautifully-applied.

 

 

Now look what they're doing. This is fully up there with the best a professional could do.

 

 

Bachmann did the same with regard to simplified lining.

 

 

They now do the full three colours, though I wish proprietary weathering were slightly less (or more) than a squirt of dirty thinners.

 

Phil, by the way, the van was built, painted and weathered by Rob Davey. I don't build freight stock.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Tony Wright

[Tony Wright]

I don't know how the Hornby Fowler 2-6-4T ended up out of place in the previous post, but the lining on that is exquisite.

[Tony Wright]

Seeing Tony's C12s , I Thought I'd show you my Craftsman kit C12  effort . if I may . Made many years ago , originally to EM , (which I dabbled in briefly)  but since converted to 00 . Sorry , but my photography skills are nil , so not up to your quality Tony .                                                               I think the wheels are Keen/Maygib , and it is fitted with a Portescap motor/gearbox , which I liked at the time . Tried to weather it ! which just about obliterated the HMRS lining !  But , as Tony says , it gives you such a sense of achievement when it's all your own work .

 I had my very fist firing job on '7352 , on coach pilot at Grantham , so I just had to make it .

Regards , Roy .P1010122 - adjusted-LR.jpg

What a splendid piece of work, Roy. And, so much the better for being all yours. 

Edited April 23, 2014 by Tony Wright

[New Haven Neil]

Lining, ah yes.

 

I'm bowled over by that Schools lining - that's Hornby??? Crikey....

 

I should have mentioned the lining on the large scale 'Caledonia' I posted the other night is waterslide, custom made straights and corners by an internet pal, applied by myself using language skills learnt in the navy.  I have tried a bow pen and failed  (I'm not a bad draughtsman, or at least I wasn't when I was at college learning how ships go, I was awarded a distinction).  The crests are sort of BR but with the legs of Man on them and my railway name, not british railways, done by the same guy, Chris's Bespoke Transfers (plug) who has done some great work for me over the years.  Navy man....

 

The Cale was painted with car shop high temp aerosol, the wheels were brush painted with Humbrol as they were indian red originally - painting individual spokes was soul destroying.  The matt smokebox is BBQ paint, as it is a real steam loco things get very hot at the pointy end.

 

Yes, on reflection this loco has done exactly what Tony expounds.....pride in something I made myself, or at least painted myself!  My blue factory painted Caledonia doesn't get half the use.

[micklner]

HMRS aint bad

 

 

[coachmann]

I don't know how the Hornby Fowler 2-6-4T ended up out of place in the previous post, but the lining on that is exquisite.

I have to agree. One day I'll do a side-window conversion, as I doubt Hornby will.

[bluebottle]

It's been so long since I saw a real Fowler 2-6-4T that I think I'd forgotten what handsome beasts they were. When I clicked on that picture just now and it zoomed out to fill the 21" screen on my Mac, about a foot from my nose, it literally made me gasp.

[Tony Wright]

HMRS aint bad

 

 

12.jpg

I entirely agree, Mick, and your lining skills on the NER Atlantic are to be admired.

 

 

I've used the HMRS linings in the past (I suppose as an ex-HMRS President I should endorse the products) but I find the ordinary waterslide transfer lining easier to 'push around' into place. The A3 above was lined with the HMRS 'Pressfix' GWR/BR express passenger lining, which came out OK (though I bottled out of lining the valance), but I didn't find it as easy as the waterslide sort. Still, at over 30 years old (a Wills kit on a scratch-built chassis towing a Jamieson GNR tender), as a 'layout loco' it just about passes muster. I commissioned the bespoke nameplates from Kings Cross Models, and they were supplied in red. Quite wrong, I imagine.

 

What's gone wrong with the bit beneath, I haven't a clue!

 

 

However, compared with what one now gets from Hornby in terms of lining, it isn't in the same class. I mixed & matched this A3 to give my 60102 in its last years on the GC. Visually better it might be, but the much older DONCASTER runs sweeter and is far more powerful.

 

 

All the above said, a decent pro-paint job with bow pen lining still stands out, as shown by Ian Rathbone's work on my Crownline V2. Ian, and the Larry Goddards of this world can produce such excellence but the mastery of superb painting is the province of a select few in my opinion. Unlike loco building, which, given good tuition, is well within the compass of a great number, as long as they're prepared to try.

 

 

Finally, as promised, a note about the K3 cabs. This picture shows a comparison between the original Bachmann cab and a SE Finecast one for the earlier pattern. Note the differences in style and size. If nothing else it shows how just renumbering Bachmann K3s to represent the earlier-build examples is a bit naff, and observe the difference in the driving wheel sizes - the one on the right being much nearer the size required.

 

 

Here's a close-up of the Bachmann K3 modification referred to earlier. The new cab has been pushed as far forward as it will go and the fit is at least as good as Bachmann's original. It merely sits on the footplate and is held in place by a screw. What it does show is the extent of the footplate to the rear of the cab, which is probably a bit too much. That said, I still think this is a better way than moving the cab back and filling any gaps. Note also the better sized driving wheels, even though more metal had to be removed from beneath the footplate.

 

What's also highly apparent is that whenever I light my work with 2,000 Watts and use a camera costing more than a large number of second-hand cars, all the 'warts & all' are there for even the myopic to chuckle at. Still, as a 'layout loco' I think it works. It certainly works better mechanically than the Bachmann original and it's something different. How it was all done will be in BRM in the near future.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Tony Wright

[New Haven Neil]

One thing there jumping out at me, as you posted yesterday, is Bachmann's lining.  Shame the mechanisms aren't as good!  The NE cab K3 is a treat, but as I discovered when having a cab ride on the J27, they windows are too low to stick your head out of!

 

However, thinking about the lining, I am looking at an image many times life size, as you say this is also a cruel image due to the intense lighting and high resolution imaging and I expect not to be able to see the difference between the lining on the layout especially with 55 year old eyes.  Ian Rathbones work is superlative too, subtle and oh so neat.

 

In my experience the mass of a whitemetal bodied loco always makes for a good runner, and I always think less sonorous than the plastic shells even when filled with weight.  Maybe a little more crude than the best mouldings or a brass loco, but they have their place on a working layout IMHO.

[Guest 2750]

Oh dear, I wish I hadn't seen the wheel comparisons side by side, that is going to niggle!

 

Tony, do SE finecast provide the K3 cab on an etch separately?

[jwealleans]

Tom, follow the link above to my WB thread and I illustrated the etch there.

[Guest 2750]

Thanks Jonathan, that is useful.

Does the K3 belong to yourself or Ormesby Hall? When Thirsk is up and running in a few years, you will have to bring it along, especially being a York engine.

[jwealleans]

It belongs to the Hall, Tom.  

[coachmann]

It is doubtful any pro painter could match printed lining of the caliber of Hornby and more recently Bachmann. But there are some things we can do with a bow-pen if RTR lining isn't all there. Below is a Bachmann Fairburn 2-6-4T where I added the missing cream line, although close up it looks rather raggy.....

 

 

Below is a Hornby Stanier 2-6-4T showing the superb lining with greater separation of red and grey lines. This loco is only let down by its 'Fowler' driving wheels, which should be bevel-rim like the Bachmanns....

 

Edited April 24, 2014 by coachmann

[bluebottle]

It is doubtful any pro painter could match printed lining of the caliber of Hornby and more recently Bachmann. But there are some things we can do with a bow-pen if RTR lining isn't all there. Below is a Bachmann Fairburn 2-6-4T where I added the missing cream line, although close up it looks rather raggy.....

 

WEB Lining 4MT Fairburn.jpg

 

Below is a Hornby Stanier 2-6-4T showing the superb lining with greater separation of red and grey lines. This loco is only let down by its 'Fowler' driving wheels, which should be bevel-rim like the Bachmanns....

 

WEB Lining 4MT Stanier .jpg

 

I take your point about the Hornby model utilising the potential of machines to expose the limitations of the human hand, Coach, but "Close up it [the Bachmann] looks rather raggy"?!

From anyone other than yourself that would smack of false modesty! To see the difference between the two pictures, I had to take my glasses off and approach so closely to my monitor that I went cross-eyed. Out of curiosity, I measured the screen image, and that worked out as the equivalent of looking at a gauge 1 model from five inches away, so I think that even the most obsessive rivet-counter would need to use a jeweller's loupe to find fault in this one!