Wright writes.....

[The Stationmaster]

I recall that one of the recommendations of the Harrow and Wealdstone accident report was that LM stock, if possible, should be marshaled with a protective head or rear of carriages/bogie vans equipped with Pullman gangways and buffing gear. I don't know what the outcome of this was but it is noticeable that quite a few ex LNER carriages were taken into LM booked stock. Ironic, when the LMS were very critical of the trussing arrangements on LNER stock, yet their own was more vunerable to telescoping during a collision. Both companies carriages were, of course, death traps in the event of fire. 

 

Not exactly that.

 

One recommendation was to draw attention to the existing (1948) Instruction about marshalling vans at the outer end of trains - it did not include any reference to the type of gangways such vehicles should have (assuming they had any of course).  As it happens the Harrow collision was not the only one in the 1950s where reminders were issued internally regarding the forming of vans/van ends at the outer ends of passenger train formations.  

 

The only recommendation in respect of BR standard vehicles was  more of a 'thought expressed in the Report' rather than a conclusive recommendation and it was that such vehicles should be formed together 'so that advantage can be taken of their buckeye couplings.'

[chrisf]

. The 'Royal Wessex' was a BR Standard train but reverted to Bulleid stock I believe to increase capacity (back to the brake van size issue?)

 

The triplet dining set - open first, kitchen car, open third - did not help and made one appreciate the Tavern Cars, so 'tis said.

 

Chris

[Daddyman]

Despite Yeadon telling us that the K1s kept their electric lighting throughout their lives, a few had it removed. 

Absolutely right, Tony. Yeadon's own photos disprove his claim - 62002 and 62018 are both shown in Volume 18 with lights removed. 

 

But then is it actually "his" claim? Am I right in thinking he only actually wrote some of the volumes, the rest being compiled from his notes? 

[Headstock]

Not exactly that.

 

One recommendation was to draw attention to the existing (1948) Instruction about marshalling vans at the outer end of trains - it did not include any reference to the type of gangways such vehicles should have (assuming they had any of course).  As it happens the Harrow collision was not the only one in the 1950s where reminders were issued internally regarding the forming of vans/van ends at the outer ends of passenger train formations.  

 

The only recommendation in respect of BR standard vehicles was  more of a 'thought expressed in the Report' rather than a conclusive recommendation and it was that such vehicles should be formed together 'so that advantage can be taken of their buckeye couplings.'

Thank's Mike,

 

I seem to have amalgamated two bits of information into a pseudo-history. Reading the report again, the sheer devastation would have probably overcome any formatting of carriages. However, the presence of buckeye couplings throughout both the local service and the express involved in the Welwyn Garden collision did save lives. I have often wondered if the LM did begin running their MK1 carriages marshaled together in blocks, perhaps an LM expert could comment.

[coachmann]

Not exactly that.

 

One recommendation was to draw attention to the existing (1948) Instruction about marshalling vans at the outer end of trains - it did not include any reference to the type of gangways such vehicles should have (assuming they had any of course).  As it happens the Harrow collision was not the only one in the 1950s where reminders were issued internally regarding the forming of vans/van ends at the outer ends of passenger train formations.  

 

The only recommendation in respect of BR standard vehicles was  more of a 'thought expressed in the Report' rather than a conclusive recommendation and it was that such vehicles should be formed together 'so that advantage can be taken of their buckeye couplings.'

To add to this, it is noticeable from photos that the all-steel coaches built by outside contractors for the LMS were often used at the head of many major corridor trains, as they were better able to absorb impact.  Coaches used included the D1730 corridor brake thirds of which there were 100 and the 1920's all-steel Full Brakes to D1715 of which there were 360. In fact a number of the latter were painted blood & custard to match passenger stock.

Edited April 13, 2017 by coachmann

[Tony Wright]

Absolutely right, Tony. Yeadon's own photos disprove his claim - 62002 and 62018 are both shown in Volume 18 with lights removed. 

 

But then is it actually "his" claim? Am I right in thinking he only actually wrote some of the volumes, the rest being compiled from his notes? 

Obviously, after Willie's death, the subsequent volumes have been compiled by others. I don't know whether the volume on the K1s was compiled after his death or not. 

 

In fairness, Yeadon's registers are an invaluable resource and all railway historians and (particularly) modellers of things east owe him a great debt. With so much information compiled, there's bound to be the occasional mistake. 

 

Mistakes I'm finding aplenty in the late Keith Pirt's notes. Muskham becomes Retford in a couple of shots and many dates are way out. However, thanks to the likes of your good self and a bit of detective work, the final captions should be as near right as possible (talk about being a hostage to fortune!)

[Tetarch60]

For a steam model to match a diesel/electric, the motor would have to be in the tender, driving via a shaft and universal joints-the same as RTR diesels/electrics.  Just having a gearbox in the steam locomotive would leave room for ballast-also the motor could be replaced/upgraded easily.  

Evening all, it seems all that is really needed is a good motor/gearbox mated with a good size flywheel for present day RTR to run smoothly with a momentum effect. Both my Bachmann 9f`s have this type of mechanism and run superbly. The Hornby pacifics on the other hand do not and are a mixed bag. Still, should I decide to go fully EM the a new chassis for each will be a requirement. Does anyone have a recommendation for this job?

[robertcwp]

Evening Robert,

 

unfortunately, the article doesn't record what exactly was the beef with the Mk1 BG. However, the staff ( Kings Cross) involved were concerned with the loading and unloading of such NPC's. It must relate to something specific about that activity being more user-friendly on the LNER version. I would love to know more about it.

Capacity? Door width? Interior layout (the Mark I had a guard's compartment in the middle with a small van at one end and larger one at the other)? The Gresley and Thompson ones were a bit longer and a fair few of the Gresley version had fold-down tables intended for pigeon baskets but which could probably be put to other uses. Would be interesting to find out but possibly lost in the mists of time. I have seen photos of Mark I BGs on the GC on I think the newspaper train or rather the empties.

 

I believe some of the Mark I variant were built with cages too, possibly those originally in plain crimson, but have never quite got to the bottom of that one.

[Tetarch60]

Thanks once more Robert,

 

You're quite right about the Carriage Working books being a statement of intent. They represent an 'ideal', but in the real world the services still have to be run, often with the nearest possible substitute. 

 

I've included some more images of 'mixed' ECML trains for comment, please. I think this is where (on a personal level) a thread like Wright Writes is of great value. Not because of my involvement - I don't mean that - but because so much invaluable expertise is instantly on tap. Putting together this (these) books for Booklaw is proving extremely interesting (if puzzling and time-consuming) and the huge help from Daddyman and the likes of yourself (and Mark) has made it possible for my being able to do this. David Jenkinson once observed of Keith Pirt 'Brilliant photographer, but useless at writing captions'. I can understand his point of view. There are various notes as to when locos were built/rebuilt/named/renamed/repainted/scrapped, etc, all of which can be gleaned from the RCTS or Yeadon. Yet, nothing on locations, dates or workings. I'm certainly not going to write captions where all I've done is open the RCTS or Yeadon. The books have to be much more than that to have any worth in my view. 

 

It's also extremely interesting (at least to me) where the prototype pictures can be linked to model-making - once more, Wright Writes joins the two, so thanks to all who contribute in this manner. 

 

Anyway, some more interesting trains..............

 

E540.jpg

 

A non-stop at Retford around 1959. Note the two Thompson pressure-ventilated cars in this set. 

 

E514.jpg

 

Gresley all-door and end-door stock in this set at Eaton Wood, which includes a Kitchen Car. Again, 1959?

 

E1157.jpg

 

An express at Red Hall (Hatfield) includes some ex-LMS cars. Note the leading Mk. 1, carrying the BR roundel suggesting work in a more prestigious diagram (what's that chalked or painted on its side?). A Saturday working? 

 

E1127.jpg

 

Stoke in 1962, with a Thompson RSO carrying the BR roundel.

 

E1371.jpg

 

Probably taken on the same day as the above (a Saturday), with an A3 in charge of a rake of mainly ex-LMS cars. There appear to be one or two Mk.1s at the rear. 

 

E1432.jpg

 

A more uniform Mk.1 rake at Ganwick in 1962 (though two carmine/cream cars are still there). I've never seen an A3 with a blue-backed nameplate before (SINGAPORE). This rake could well return north behind a Deltic, so running C/C stock is legitimate behind an EE Type 5. 

 

E513.jpg

 

Leaving Grantham, an Up express is seen in 1961/'62 - note wing deflectors on WOOLWINDER and electrification warning flashes. The leading car is a Four-Compt Gresley Brake Third, with turnbuckle underframe. 

 

E970.jpg

 

Stoke, again in 1962, this time a Down train. On this occasion, the leading car is also a Four-Comp Gresley Brake Third, but this time it's on angle trussing. 

 

Gresley 4 Compt Brake Third 01.jpg

 

Gresley 4 Compt Brake Third 02.jpg

 

Mention of a Gresley Four-Compt Brake Third leads me on to this latest car I've completed. It's the usual mix of Hornby donor and MJT replacement sides. Folk might recall I did several of such conversions for Gilbert Barnatt, and I've done even more for myself (of all diagrams). It's a shame that Hornby's Gresleys as supplied cannot be used (at least as far as I'm concerned), but they do make useful donors. 

 

Out of interest, the lining is Cambridge Custom Transfers on one side and Replica on the other (I forget which). This is much finer than other transfer alternatives, even though (because of physical limitations) it cannot be applied to the central beading (as it should be), but just beneath it. I thought I'd got it (and the numbers/lettering) absolutely dead straight, but the camera highlights my deficiencies. It is, in my defence, like every carriage I make/paint, a 'layout carriage' - nothing more.

 

The dates and locations of the prototype locations are my conclusions/suppositions. If any are clearly wrong, then will folk please let me know. Any other comments and observations will be gratefully received. 

 

My thanks in anticipation. 

Thank you tony for the wonderful photographs. First one is a real beaut, WOOLWINDER, first postwar A3 to be fitted with a double blast and chimney.The second one shows poor SOLARIO, unkempt and looking very uncared for, looking as if it going to it`s own funeral. Must be summer 1959 as SOLARIO was withdrawn in December 1959 to supply parts for FELSTEAD damaged in a derailment. Has Booklaw changed its way it reproduces colour pictures/slides in it`s books. Some of the ones in the Grantham book have smudged numbers and totems and look as if in some photos the colour intensity  has been turned up,a similar effect like turning up the colour on an old style TV right up. Totally spoils the enjoyment. One or two pictures have appeared in previous albums and the reproduction was spot on. Has anyone else noticed this? Will there be any goods trains hauled by A3`s in your new book? Especially number one speed fully fitteds?

[TrevorP1]

I recall that one of the recommendations of the Harrow and Wealdstone accident report was that LM stock, if possible, should be marshaled with a protective head or rear of carriages/bogie vans equipped with Pullman gangways and buffing gear. I don't know what the outcome of this was but it is noticeable that quite a few ex LNER carriages were taken into LM booked stock. Ironic, when the LMS were very critical of the trussing arrangements on LNER stock, yet their own was more vunerable to telescoping during a collision. Both companies carriages were, of course, death traps in the event of fire. 

 

 

I was talking to our carpenters today about the brake gear components we are machining for the two Bulleid coaches they are rebuilding. They are in such a poor state (the coaches not the carpenters...) that it has been necessary to replace almost every curved side upright. What struck me was the way these uprights - which support the weight of the roof and the glazing -  are designed to be held to the underframe by what amounts to a couple of hundred No.10 screws and a few coach bolts. 

 

It beats me how these vehicles survive a rough shunt let alone anything more serious. Like cars, railway vehicles have come a long way.

[Tetarch60]

Tony the A1 in particular looks stunning. 

Looks very good. Surely it is by DJH and not Crownline? Pity DJH say they will not do the A2/1 in 4mm scale.Still, we can only hope.

[Headstock]

Capacity? Door width? Interior layout (the Mark I had a guard's compartment in the middle with a small van at one end and larger one at the other)? The Gresley and Thompson ones were a bit longer and a fair few of the Gresley version had fold-down tables intended for pigeon baskets but which could probably be put to other uses. Would be interesting to find out but possibly lost in the mists of time. I have seen photos of Mark I BGs on the GC on I think the newspaper train or rather the empties.

 

I believe some of the Mark I variant were built with cages too, possibly those originally in plain crimson, but have never quite got to the bottom of that one.

 

Isn't it annoying when articles hint at things but never delve a little deeper. If I had been present I would have been asking all sorts of questions. I suspect you're on the right track, LNER BG's are basically a vast open space with a cosy little 'cupboard' for the guard. The MK1 BG seems to be half full of clutter even before loading commenced. Perhaps, the location of the top lights under the cornice was an advantage being less vulnerable to accumulating track dirt. Certainly, the LNER favored this arrangement over that of other railways. Perhaps this explains why the sudo empty newspaper van train was so long despite the supposed elimination of much of the van traffic or at least the services that conveyed them. Obviously, two MK1 BG's were required for every ex LNER type.

[Focalplane]

I had half ownership in a Jaguar XK 140 in Singapore in the late 1970s.  This "modern" sports car had some surprisingly old build designs.  The doors had softwood frames around which the aluminium skins had been shaped and nailed. I rebuilt them using very basic tools (and very good tropical hardwood).  When you have finally achieved the "impossible" you get to understand the skills of the original craftsmen at Wolverton or Coventry (sorry, I have no idea where LNER coaches were built and it's too late in life to look it up!)

 

Believe me, No. 10 screws can hold wood together quite well.  That Jag was subsequently driven at motorway speeds on the M4 and didn't fall apart.  Whether it would survive modern potholes is another story.

[Headstock]

I was talking to our carpenters today about the brake gear components we are machining for the two Bulleid coaches they are rebuilding. They are in such a poor state (the coaches not the carpenters...) that it has been necessary to replace almost every curved side upright. What struck me was the way these uprights - which support the weight of the roof and the glazing -  are designed to be held to the underframe by what amounts to a couple of hundred No.10 screws and a few coach bolts. 

 

It beats me how these vehicles survive a rough shunt let alone anything more serious. Like cars, railway vehicles have come a long way.

 

Good evening Trevor,

 

it's quite scary when you think about it. All of the carriages in the Harrow and Wealdstone disaster were coupled by screw link. When the collision occurred the underframe of one carriage road up over the headstock of the next slicing the body from the underframe and reducing it pieces. The three rear carriages of the local stood in the station were reduced to an area of forty-five feet with the mangled underframes piled up on the platform. The leading vehicle of the Perth/Euston express, a bogie siphon was reported by the RO as having completely disintegrated, as nothing above underframe level could be ascertained. It makes chilling reading, yet there are some amazing stories of stoicism under horrendous conditions.

Edited April 13, 2017 by Headstock

[TrevorP1]

Hello Andrew

 

It's easy to see how that kind of catastrophic damage could occur and we have of course learned from these tragic accidents.

 

Come to think of it a steam locomotive isn't all that safe either. Take one 'bomb' weighing 20 odd tons, full of scalding water and steam at 200psi. Put about half a ton of fire at one end. Mount this above several tons of revolving metalwork. Propel it down the railway at 80 odd mph. If the crew are incapacitated there is no way of stopping it. - (Tongue in cheek of course!)

[Tony Wright]

Thank you tony for the wonderful photographs. First one is a real beaut, WOOLWINDER, first postwar A3 to be fitted with a double blast and chimney.The second one shows poor SOLARIO, unkempt and looking very uncared for, looking as if it going to it`s own funeral. Must be summer 1959 as SOLARIO was withdrawn in December 1959 to supply parts for FELSTEAD damaged in a derailment. Has Booklaw changed its way it reproduces colour pictures/slides in it`s books. Some of the ones in the Grantham book have smudged numbers and totems and look as if in some photos the colour intensity  has been turned up,a similar effect like turning up the colour on an old style TV right up. Totally spoils the enjoyment. One or two pictures have appeared in previous albums and the reproduction was spot on. Has anyone else noticed this? Will there be any goods trains hauled by A3`s in your new book? Especially number one speed fully fitteds?

I don't know how the images are scanned, but I agree with you about some of the Grantham images having a strange colour cast. It certainly won't be KRP's slides - he was a great photographer.

 

My job is to select about 150 images (from hundreds!) and write suitable captions. It's a job I'm looking forward to. For obvious reasons, I won't be showing any more images here, but I can tell you that several shots show A3s on a variety of goods trains.  

[Tony Wright]

Looks very good. Surely it is by DJH and not Crownline? Pity DJH say they will not do the A2/1 in 4mm scale.Still, we can only hope.

It is a Crownline kit, but it has a DJH A1 smokebox/boiler/firebox (the privileges of working with/for the firm). 

 

The A2/1 is really a non-starter. When I first discussed it with the late John Hughes, he was under the impression that it had a lot in common with the A2/2s and A2/3s. When I showed him that it had a different boiler and firebox, shorter rear end, full 'V'-fronted cab (the DJH A2/2 only caters for the four in the class which latterly received Thompson or Peppercorn boilers, with a part 'V'-fronted cab) and for early-build days it would need a 4,200 gallon Group Standard tender (which DJH has never done in 4mm), that was it. 

[Headstock]

I don't know how the images are scanned, but I agree with you about some of the Grantham images having a strange colour cast. It certainly won't be KRP's slides - he was a great photographer.

 

My job is to select about 150 images (from hundreds!) and write suitable captions. It's a job I'm looking forward to. For obvious reasons, I won't be showing any more images here, but I can tell you that several shots show A3s on a variety of goods trains.  

 

Funny you should mention that. I had a go at colour correcting one of the worst offenders while waiting for the lawnmower too charge. There also seems to be a distinct halo effect so I removed that as well. Hope you don't mind.

 

Edited April 14, 2017 by Headstock

[coachmann]

From what i have seen of Keith Pirt's colour photos, he took quite a number after tea........Almost as if he preferred the evening light. This of course introduces a strong red colour cast.

[Clive Mortimore]

Has anyone else noted in the wonderful pictures shared by Tony and Robert over the past few days the amount of flatbottom track with pre Pandrol clip fixings the steam locomotives are running on?

 

Come on Mr Track Manufacturers how about some code 83 flatbottom track with a pre Pandrol fixing (not bothered if it is a Mk1 base plate, a Mills clip or what ever) and sleeper spacing matching British practice for those late steam modellers and us early diesel modellers.

[AndyID]

Has anyone else noted in the wonderful pictures shared by Tony and Robert over the past few days the amount of flatbottom track with pre Pandrol clip fixings the steam locomotives are running on?

 

Come on Mr Track Manufacturers how about some code 83 flatbottom track with a pre Pandrol fixing (not bothered if it is a Mk1 base plate, a Mills clip or what ever) and sleeper spacing matching British practice for those late steam modellers and us early diesel modellers.

 

I'd be surprised if any manufacturers would be willing to make the investment, but you never know.

 

I did make a FB sample on my 3D printer. I posted a pic of it somewhere on RMweb but I'm afraid I can't find where I posted it and I can't find the actual sample either.

Edited April 14, 2017 by AndyID

[The Stationmaster]

Good evening Trevor,

 

it's quite scary when you think about it. All of the carriages in the Harrow and Wealdstone disaster were coupled by screw link. When the collision occurred the underframe of one carriage road up over the headstock of the next slicing the body from the underframe and reducing it pieces. The three rear carriages of the local stood in the station were reduced to an area of forty-five feet with the mangled underframes piled up on the platform. The leading vehicle of the Perth/Euston express, a bogie siphon was reported by the RO as having completely disintegrated, as nothing above underframe level could be ascertained. It makes chilling reading, yet there are some amazing stories of stoicism under horrendous conditions.

 

With timber bodywork GW (design in the Harrow case) Siphons are fairly easy to demolish.  One of my shunters made the rather basic error of not ensuring the gangways had been disconnected before splitting a pair of Siphons and duly parted the vehicles with the gangways clipped together.  Naturally I would have expected the gangway to be torn to pieces but the reality was that the entire end was pulled out of one of the vehicles more or less in one piece (until it hit the railhead) leaving both gangways intact.

[robertcwp]

Thanks for the picture of the Caledonian with its attendant maroon stock. This triggered memories of the Dublo "City of London|"  which I wanted so much when it was released. I think it was over £7 which was way beyond my means then. The Binns Road publicity machine would have loved this picture. 

 

Memo to self to get a Princess Coronation!

 

Happy days in retrospect.

 

Martin Long

Once Bachmann do the porthole BFK in maroon and Hornby bring out their Mark I FO, all that will not be available RTR will be the RK. Time for an LMS 50-foot kitchen car I think.

[Enterprisingwestern]

Once Bachmann do the porthole BFK in maroon and Hornby bring out their Mark I FO, all that will not be available RTR will be the RK. Time for an LMS 50-foot kitchen car I think.

 

Not forgetting the "experimentals" and XP64 stock of course!

 

Mike.

[robertcwp]

Not forgetting the "experimentals" and XP64 stock of course!

 

Mike.

Eh? My post referred to stock needed to model The Caledonian c1958 as shown in the photo in my collection.