Wright writes.....

[allan downes]

Hi Robert

 

All drawings are as good as the information and skill of the draftsman in interpreting that information. All drawings are useful. Those drawings where the draftsman has not managed get things 100% are still useful as a guide. Once you know the errors then you can work around them.

 

I cannot comment on steam locomotive drawings, or many rolling stock ones but with diesel locomotive drawings I have had the following experience.  

 

BR Diagrams, can range from being very helpful to not much help. Normally the shape of the loco is 100% so when scratchbuilding this is great help.

 

Other official drawings. Some locomotive manufactures drawings have entered the public domain. Like BR diagrams these too can be brilliant to useful in the outside privy.

 

Russel Carter's, these were done very early in the diesel time line. I think they are detailed versions of BR diagrams. They do contain some errors but are a great source for scratchbuilding.

 

I have found that Grahame Fenn's drawings contain some similar mistakes as the Carter drawings. The biggest error with them is there no leading dimensions to check the scale, I never trust a drawing has been printed to the correct size without checking one of the main dimensions, wheelbase or overall length. Not quite as useful as the Carter drawings.

 

Ian Beattie's look lovely.

 

Shunters have always been a problem owing to the lack of drawings, the few of Michael Edge's I have have been very helpful compared to my main source of BR diagrams.

 

For modelling I found the Monty Wells drawings very helpful, they are what I call a modeller's drawing.

 

DMUs are a very poor relation to other drawings, my main too sources are the Brian Goulding book and BR diagrams. How many other DMU drawings have been published? Not many, so us DMU modellers can moan about the Goulding ones but they are still our main reference point.

 

EMUs are even worse off. Over the years the SR modeller has had some very good drawings and some not so but they are far luckier than someone like me who is trying to make GER Mk1 EMUs. I am having to do my own drawings of the undergubbins of the various types of unit.

 

There are loads of other draftsmen and modellers who have over the years been very helpful. These can range from highly detailed accurate drawings to Peter Kazmierczak's wonderful  and useful sketches in his book "Modellers' Guide to Modern Motive Power". It isn't the accuracy of a drawing that is important but the information.

 

 

 

Hi Andrew

 

When I worked in the electronics industry some of the drawings were extremely vague. One I recall was for a simple cover for a box of eletrickery, it was for various sized boxes so  had a table stating the different lengths and widths. It said "All dimensions in millimeters. To be made from 1/8 inch stock steel." as long as the blokes using the drawing can make head and tail of it, does it matter? It is when people, and modellers are very bad at this, take what is drawn as being 100%.

Which reminded me of the time when I went into a timber yard for an 8ft length of 4"x"2 and was told it will now have to be 100mm x 50mm as all sizes are now in metric. I then inquired what the equivalent of 8ft was in metric which prompted "Eh ? There isn't one. We only sell it in 8ft lengths" The guy I noticed, had a very flat head.

 

Allan.

[allan downes]

Up here in North East Lincolnshire our post is still delivered by Pony Express.

 

This morning I got a letter from the hospital.

 

It stated : "You are to attend the Satellite Endoscopy Unit at 9.15 am on the 8th of September 2017 ( which was yesterday ) and here is a map showing you were we are and, once you've found us, here's what we are going to do with you.Eat and drink as normal but not until we've finished poking about in your inside" - or words to that effect.

 

Well, if they think that I'm going back yesterday for another session of pipes, cameras and tin snips they're sadly mistaken!

 

Allan.

Edited September 9, 2017 by allan downes

[Clive Mortimore]

Up here in North East Lincolnshire our post is still delivered by Pony Express.

 

This morning I got a letter from the hospital.

 

It stated : "You are to attend the Satellite Endoscopy Unit at 9.15 am on the 8th of September 2017 ( which was yesterday ) and here is a map showing you were we are and, once you've found us, here's what we are going to do with you.Eat and drink as normal but not until we've finished poking about in your inside" - or words to that effect.

 

Well, if they think that I'm going back yesterday for another session of pipes, cameras and tin snips they're sadly mistaken!

 

Allan.

Hello Allan

 

As someone who has just recently moved to Saltfleetby I am finding I like the slow pace of life. What I am finding strange is how friendly people are here. Having lived in Essex where people are not rude but just don't seem to have that little extra time to be polite and friendly like the folk around here.

[allan downes]

I lived in Essex for a while, Clive, and found that everyone lived in their cars and all met everyday on the M25 to play " Avoid the Cones " It was quite a popular  game and just one game could last a whole week.

 

Another popular destination was Southend-on-Sea and especially on a Bank Holiday where, for the most part, holiday makers would spend it with their families choking in a 42 mile traffic jam on the hard shoulder of the Southend  Arterial making pretend sand castles.

 

I lived on Harrold Hill just off Gallows Corner where the council decided to do something to ease the Southend bound traffic by erecting, over night, a temporary wooden overpass which not only made things impossibly worse ( my wife once went in never ending circles beneath it when her gear stick came out in her hand ) and is still there today.

 

Allan. 

Edited September 9, 2017 by allan downes

[The Johnster]

My dad had a mk1 Cortina on which you could do this trick; the gear stick was a bayonet fitting into it's operating mechanism; the twist required to get it out was dangerously close to the jiggly movement needed to engage reverse.  I once owned an ex-post office LDV (Sherpa) van on which the gearstick was a large flat bladed screwdriver which engaged diagonally across a square recess that the original had once fitted properly; my family is clearly genetically predisposed to this sort of thing.

[mullie]

I lived in Essex for a while, Clive, and found that everyone lived in their cars and all met everyday on the M25 to play " Avoid the Cones " It was quite a popular  game and just one game could last a whole week.

 

Another popular destination was Southend-on-Sea and especially on a Bank Holiday where, for the most part, holiday makers would spend it with their families choking in a 42 mile traffic jam on the hard shoulder of the Southend  Arterial making pretend sand castles.

 

I lived on Harrold Hill just off Gallows Corner where the council decided to do something to ease the Southend bound traffic by erecting, over night, a temporary wooden overpass which not only made things impossibly worse ( my wife once went in never ending circles beneath it when her gear stick came out in her hand ) and is still there today.

 

Allan. 

I was born in Essex and lived and worked there until I was forty. The M25 is indeed a car park and can cause chaos for miles around.

 

Aah Southend on Sea, but only if you can find the sea among the mud.

 

If you lived near Gallows Corner you deserve a medal! Did drive across it earlier this year whilst visiting family, not an experience I'm in a hurry to repeat.

 

Actually I like Essex, the rural parts which is where my family are from have a distinct character and charm and the people who come from there have a very distinct accent that has nothing to do with the London twang associated with the county.

 

The railways are great too, what's not to like about the ex Great Eastern and LTSR lines as well as lines like the Cone Valley and Halstead.

 

Martyn

[Clive Mortimore]

Going back to drawings, many "modellers drawings" are not true drafted drawings, they tend to mix projections. Coupled with many modellers not being able to read drawings doesn't help things.

Here is a little test. This is drawn in first angle projection. I have left the end view off, those who can read drawings would be able to make this without an end view. What is the end view.

 

[chris p bacon]

I thought Polo mints were round.....

[Jol Wilkinson]

I was born in Essex and lived and worked there until I was forty. The M25 is indeed a car park and can cause chaos for miles around.

 

Aah Southend on Sea, but only if you can find the sea among the mud.

 

If you lived near Gallows Corner you deserve a medal! Did drive across it earlier this year whilst visiting family, not an experience I'm in a hurry to repeat.

 

Actually I like Essex, the rural parts which is where my family are from have a distinct character and charm and the people who come from there have a very distinct accent that has nothing to do with the London twang associated with the county.

 

The railways are great too, what's not to like about the ex Great Eastern and LTSR lines as well as lines like the Cone Valley and Halstead.

 

Martyn

Coastal Essex and north west Essex, where it border Suffolk, are two different countries with different languages and cultures. Other than the sea food restaurants in West Mersea, coastal Essex is best avoided.

[Guius]

If you are thinking of moving please, please don't come North. Crippling house prices, congested roads, awful weather, unfriendly people, terrible countryside views, air that's not been through 3 pairs of lungs and two arse holes before in gets to you etc. etc.. Please don't think of such a relocation. Oh! and tell all your friends " it's truly grim up North"

 

There that should do it.

 

Best

 

Guy

[allan downes]

If  you don't drive a massive white 4x4 with the Churchill dog dangling in the back window and a pair of fluffy dice dangling in the front, wear your sun glasses perched on top of your head, wear a cell phone permanently glued to your ear, don't have a white painted wagon wheel propped up either side of your front door, two full size fiber glass lions guarding your front drive, have a large straw donkey wearing a large sombrero hat on your frontroom windowsill and take your holidays in Benidorm then you're not from Essex - ( Or Immingham...)

 

Allan

Edited September 10, 2017 by allan downes

[micklner]

If  you don't drive a massive white 4x4 with the Churchill dog dangling in the back window and a pair of fluffy dice dangling in the front, wear your sun glasses perched on top of your head, don't have a white painted wagon wheel propped up either side of your front door, two full size fiber glass lions guarding your front drive, have a large straw donkey wearing a large sombrero hat on your frontroom windowsill and take your holidays in Benidorm then you're not from Essex.

 

Allan

 

So amusing   I am from Essex and still live there and possess any of that drivel or go to Benidorm.

 

Can we get back to Model Railways !! Thanks

Edited September 10, 2017 by micklner

[unclebobkt]

      You're right. In the South we played a form of cricket where your legs were the stumps and the 'bowler' chucked a hard ball at them will the aim of getting you out by hitting them (and potentially hospitalising you) and with only a stick to protect them (no pads or any other cricket paraphernalia). None of that Norvern wimpy 'stumps' stuff.   

 

G 

 

           During WW2. the school was evacuated from BOGNOR REGIS, (Sx.),  to CORNWALL - in fact near TRURO.

 

  We used to play a variant of the above called 'Hot Rice.', (I don't know why that name.),.

  The batsman used a cricket-stump to defend the single wicket & himself from a cricket-ball that could be bowled, chucked. hurled, thrown etc. etc. from any position from where the ball happened to be fielded.

  Getting 'OUT.' was either because the single stump was hit or one was caught full toss.

  Ah - those were the days.

 

        

[Atso]

If  you don't drive a massive white 4x4 with the Churchill dog dangling in the back window and a pair of fluffy dice dangling in the front, wear your sun glasses perched on top of your head, wear a cell phone permanently glued to your ear, don't have a white painted wagon wheel propped up either side of your front door, two full size fiber glass lions guarding your front drive, have a large straw donkey wearing a large sombrero hat on your frontroom windowsill and take your holidays in Benidorm then you're not from Essex - ( Or Immingham...)

 

Allan

 

Allan,

 

Some friends of mine from Essex have taken exception with your comments (which I showed them in order to gain an informed opinion) as they feel that you are stereotyping them and are really quite upset! I live in Hertfordshire so can't speak from experience but I have been instructed to inform you that some people have meerkats and not Churchill dogs in there cars and many more now have hands free kits for their phones while driving.

 

Good day to you sir!

 

P.S. When is Sir going to return to bring order to this thread???

Edited September 10, 2017 by Atso

[mullie]

Coastal Essex and north west Essex, where it border Suffolk, are two different countries with different languages and cultures. Other than the sea food restaurants in West Mersea, coastal Essex is best avoided.

I go to Walton on the Naze a few times a year and it usually appears to be shut!

 

Martyn

[stewartingram]

I go to Walton on the Naze a few times a year and it usually appears to be shut!

 

Martyn

When did it ever open?

 

Stewart

[Jon4470]

A few weeks ago I decided that I really did need to tidy up my modelling space. As I started that job I re-discovered a half started GEM D 21 kit. So I decided that finishing this kit would be a good way to tidy up!

I scratch built the chassis which is a first for me. Even better is that it works- at least in a straight line!

There is still some fettling to do and the ride heights need to be adjusted (which should fix the shorting from the bogie). The loco is old school white metal and weighs a ton - so it should be able to haul a good load.

[The Johnster]

           During WW2. the school was evacuated from BOGNOR REGIS, (Sx.),  to CORNWALL - in fact near TRURO.

 

  We used to play a variant of the above called 'Hot Rice.', (I don't know why that name.),.

  The batsman used a cricket-stump to defend the single wicket & himself from a cricket-ball that could be bowled, chucked. hurled, thrown etc. etc. from any position from where the ball happened to be fielded.

  Getting 'OUT.' was either because the single stump was hit or one was caught full toss.

  Ah - those were the days.

 

        

 

 

Or, presumably, incapacitated by injury.  Made a man of you, if you survived.

[The Johnster]

Going back to drawings, many "modellers drawings" are not true drafted drawings, they tend to mix projections. Coupled with many modellers not being able to read drawings doesn't help things.

Here is a little test. This is drawn in first angle projection. I have left the end view off, those who can read drawings would be able to make this without an end view. What is the end view.

Clive's test.png

 

 

 

The end view would be a view of the end if you'd shown it, Clive; beyond that I give up.  Did orthographic projection technical drawing at school, but this is beyond me.  You are cleverer then me and I am stupid; now, please, put me out of my stupid misery!

[allan downes]

 

As we were eating dinner this afternoon Songs Of Praise suddenly started up on the telly where a mass meeting of wrinklies gathered on a beach somewhere swaying back and forth singing Kumbya as if they give'd a toss about what was happening in Puerto Rico, or anywhere else for that matter as long as it wasn't happening to them.

 

Bloody hypocrites if ever there was and, not being able to stomach anymore, I gave my dinner to the cat who ate it because our cat doesn't know where Puerto Rico is.

 

Allan

[coachmann]

As we were eating dinner this afternoon Songs Of Praise suddenly started up on the telly where a mass meeting of wrinklies gathered on a beach somewhere swaying back and forth singing Kumbya as if they give'd a toss about what was happening in Puerto Rico, or anywhere else for that matter as long as it wasn't happening to them.

 

Bloody hypocrites if ever there was and, not being able to stomach anymore,......

Oh dear.....

[The Johnster]

Taliesin the Cwmdimbath Station Cat probably does know where Puerto Rico is, he's that sort of cat, but doesn't care; he's that sort of cat as well.

[Ray Chessum]

A little while ago someone posted that they would like to see other peoples efforts, well here are a couple of mine.

 

The unpainted one is a DJH Merchant Navy and the painted one is West Country 'HOLSWORTY' , both kits were over 25 years old before I got around to building them

           Ray Chessum

[Tony Wright]

Does the Comet chassis sit straightforwardly under the Hornby body, Tony? I convinced myself that there's a design flaw with the original tender drive Hornby Duchess in that the supplied chassis makes the body sit too high at the cab end, leading to a slope along the footplate. Once I'd noticed this with mine, I saw it (or believed I saw it) in many other photos of the same product, and yet I've never seen it mentioned in the model press. Here's a link to a photo from Hornby's own website, for instance, of a 2001-era model which I think exhibits the same slope:

 

http://www.hornbyguide.com/item_details.asp?itemid=2036

 

In order to get the Hornby body sitting level on the Hornby chassis, I had to cut a rebate in the cab floor and then add a false floor above it.

 

By far the best thing, as you're doing, is to put a decent etched chassis under it, of course.

 

Alastair

Alastair,

 

The Comet chassis fits (almost) perfectly. I say 'almost' because a tiny bit of filing is needed at the front and rear of the frames for a snug fit. The width of the outside rear frames is dictated by the internal width of the firebox/beneath the cab. I filed a bit away on these to give the extra space. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

Allan,

 

Some friends of mine from Essex have taken exception with your comments (which I showed them in order to gain an informed opinion) as they feel that you are stereotyping them and are really quite upset! I live in Hertfordshire so can't speak from experience but I have been instructed to inform you that some people have meerkats and not Churchill dogs in there cars and many more now have hands free kits for their phones while driving.

 

Good day to you sir!

 

P.S. When is Sir going to return to bring order to this thread???

Steve,

 

I don't think I've ever been able to bring order to anything involving social media (if that's what this thread is part of). However, I'll have a go.

 

I think the cricketing stories have probably had their time up (or timed out). Occasionally you'll see a cricket match depicted on a model railway. In every case I've seen, the result is total nonsense in my opinion. Even tiny village greens are vast compared with the 'postage stamp' (literally) these poor miniature cricketers have to play on. The same is so of football match depictions (or rugby?). The average FA football pitch (even parks pitches) is about an acre in size. Yet, you see absolutely daft modelling of a football match going on. Why? It might just 'work' in a still photograph (showing a corner of the pitch?), though that is debatable, but a scale acre would take up many model railways' total space. On a layout viewed by visitors/the public, the notion of a football match (or any sport) taking place is frankly absurd. The trains move, the signals go up and down or change colour (or should do) and even some road vehicles go past, yet the sporty figures are literally 'cast in stone'. In my view, figures can make or break a layout and any depicted (even train crews) should be in repose - sitting (not SAT - why does this have to appear in print so often?) or standing (not STOOD) and definitely not in full motion. That way, say, a seated, still figure looks perfectly natural in an environment where the trains are in motion. Some figures are no more than caricatures and are best avoided, because they appear in brawls, stagger in a drunken state or are wielding large tools almost like Olympians. No thank you.  

 

As for Essex, I cannot comment with any authority, only having visited the county a couple of times for model railway shows. What I would say is that many residents (in my experience) use a very efficient alphabet. By that I mean they waste no breath in putting the 't' in the middle of words such as 'water', nor bother with consonants at the end of any words (which should have them). 

 

This thread, though, is (or should be) all about good modelling. 

 

 

Good modelling like this. I was at the Woking Show over the weekend and took time out from my demonstrating/loco doctoring to take some pictures. This scene depicts part of Blackfriars Bridge, being built in P4 by the Blackfriars Bridge Model Railway Group. Progress this far has taken 20 years, which tells me something. Despite my usual 'curse' upon running when I view layouts (particularly those in P4), I saw not one derailment during the whole show. 

 

 

 

More good modelling at Woking, this time the work of one of my 'pupils' (The Green Howards on this site). Andy really doesn't need my help any more (which says more for his learning ability than my teaching). 

 

 

 

More (very) good modelling, this time in N Gauge, by Ian Lampkin. He's produced a very fine representation of Banbury in very recent times. It's what N Gauge should be (in my view) - a resistance to cramming too much in and going on/off stage on the straight.

 

 

 

The same could be said of Dentdale by Wayne Webb, Tony Frazer and Bob Taylor.

 

 

Despite my antipathy to DCC, the friend for whom I'm building the Little Engines A7 uses it. So, a chip has to be fitted. Thanks to Jeremy of Digitrains (what a helpful guy), I fitted a 'basic' Zimo one. A perfect combination it would seem (though I can only test it on analogue - on which it runs beautifully). My friend, no doubt, will configure the CVs for peerless running. I'm staggered to learn that some users of DCC can't even fit a decoder by themselves, for themselves. Still, it keeps the likes of Digitrains busy, but really.

 

Finally, may I thank all the organisers of the Woking event for making Mo and me feel so welcome, and for looking after us so well? For those interested, we made £37.00 for Cancer Research by fixing ailing locos. May I thank all those who donated so generously, please? One wonderful chap handed over £5.00, though he didn't bring a dud loco. When asked, he just said it was worth it for the entertainment I gave. Am I in the wrong job?  

 

Lastly (can that follow finally? I doubt it), can we bring the thread back to real modelling, please (and still retain the humour)? There are some staggeringly-good examples out there.

Edited September 11, 2017 by Tony Wright