Wright writes.....

[glo41f]

Last week there was a show in our village which, as well as the customary produce, had a section for handicrafts and the like. I have just finished a model of a class L1 which has taken over three years in elapsed time so I thought I would enter it. Here it is (I hope).

 

 

I was pretty proud of the beast but as ever pride comes before a fall and I did not get a prize being beaten by a bit of cross stitch!  I think the judge was a lady who has no soul for trains.

 

Martin Long

[96701]

It would be soon much simpler with DCC, you only need 2 wires dontcha know?

 

Mike.

Ha! I'm hoping to keep it down to 6 wires between baseboards. 2 for track power, 2 for CBUS and 2 for 12V to power the CBUS modules.

[Tony Wright]

Now Sir, i think i went pretty well in that post. I don't see any grammar mistakes, be kind if you find some! 

Don't forget 'I' is a proper noun, and should always be a capital. 

[Tony Wright]

Tony, my computer merely replaces the control panel. Locos are still driven through a handset, and the MERG CBUS system will allow as many handsets as you wish, so you could have a driver take a goods train into a loop whilst another driver takes the Yorkshire Pullman past it on the fast line. The signaller now operates the points and signals and allows the first driver to continue on their way with the goods train. 

Phil,

 

I'm sure it suits you, and, as Baz has said, it's horses for courses. 

 

It's just that I don't really like computers (because I don't understand them). They seem to govern just about everything we do these days. 

 

A week or two ago we had a minor problem with a bank transfer of cash. It was eventually solved (thanks Rodger), but what a headache to sort it out (not Rodger's fault, by the way). Time was when one just went into a bank and solved the problem face-to-face. Not now. Mo had to jump through various complex hoops accessed by the computer - because so many bank branches are closing through internet (computer) banking. 

 

I had a minor short on LB today (caused, would you believe it, by my inadvertently laying a screwdriver across a section gap - I was attending to some routine maintenance. I isolated each section by section and found it almost instantly - what a chump! Had my layout been DCC, the whole lot would have shut down, wouldn't it? As it was, I continued to run trains quite happily on three of the main circuits with complete impunity while I found the cause/effect of my stupidity.

[coachmann]

A week or two ago we had a minor problem with a bank transfer of cash. It was eventually solved (thanks Rodger), but what a headache to sort it out (not Rodger's fault, by the way). Time was when one just went into a bank and solved the problem face-to-face. Not now. Mo had to jump through various complex hoops accessed by the computer - because so many bank branches are closing through internet (computer) banking.  

 

I had a minor short on LB today (caused, would you believe it, by my inadvertently laying a screwdriver across a section gap - I was attending to some routine maintenance. I isolated each section by section and found it almost instantly - what a chump! Had my layout been DCC, the whole lot would have shut down, wouldn't it? As it was, I continued to run trains quite happily on three of the main circuits with complete impunity while I found the cause/effect of my stupidity.

 

The last remaining bank in our town will close in December.  Been with them 45 years but I got everything sorted in no time so business as usual.  If we all withdrew our money, maybe the bankers (a polite word) would feel the draft.

 

Re. DCC, the layout would only shut down completely if wired as such. Those who wired for DC then later converted to DCC probably (and wisely) retained their sections and left the switches on so that sections could be isolated to locate the short-circuit. Mine was wired all in one go and so leaving a tin or ruler across tracks in the fiddle yard is an old 'trick' of mine. It wont happen once the layout is finished and the storage tracks are no longer used for scenic materials, tools, tins of glue and what-not.

Edited September 18, 2017 by coachmann

[Theakerr]

I suggest that the selection of one's control system is a function of what one wants to get out of your layout primarily with ones budget and technical expertise directly inter-related.  For example I have a friend whose layout is DCC and completely computer controlled.  He is a computer wizz and developing a computer control is what he wanted.  I, on the other hand, have a 90% analog automated DC layout that goes through a complete cycle of 18 trains in about 25mins.   However, I do have manual over-ride and a branch that is completely manual.  My aim from Day 1 was to be able to go downstairs with a beer and watch trains go by (at realistic speeds).

[Theakerr]

I am trying to close out a bank associated credit card and found that the bank in question appears to have isolated me from a Human completely.  For example I try to "contact" them by e-mail but their system will not send the e-mail.  Instead it pops up an answer and asks if that was what I was asking?  No!  I try to ring their "help" number but after two prompts it directs me to their automatic voice "intelligent" system.  Said system admits it is learning but after failing to even understand my question  (you have asked ,,,, is this correct? - NO) will not allow me to contact a human because it will not let me enter anymore prompts.  I tried to ring an actual branch but the system directs me their corporate banking help centre.  Two prompts and thank you very much for contacting xxxx bank and click.  The saga continues.  Later this week I will be in a town that has a branch office perhaps even with humans in it and we will see what happens there.  I can and will cut up the card but then my account will still reactive for the Bad Guys to access.  I am at the point of going to my MP and seeing what the bank ombudsman actually does, bearing in mind I believe he/she is funded by the banks.  Note my bank still has an office in town with fantastic service but a couple of banks here in Canada are closing rural branches like crazy.  

[96701]

I suggest that the selection of one's control system is a function of what one wants to get out of your layout primarily with ones budget and technical expertise directly inter-related.  For example I have a friend whose layout is DCC and completely computer controlled.  He is a computer wizz and developing a computer control is what he wanted.  I, on the other hand, have a 90% analog automated DC layout that goes through a complete cycle of 18 trains in about 25mins.   However, I do have manual over-ride and a branch that is completely manual.  My aim from Day 1 was to be able to go downstairs with a beer and watch trains go by (at realistic speeds).

Geoff Brewin's layout was of similar persuasion. He built his layout with MERG Superblocs because his aim was to let the system run trains so that he could watch them. My preference was to play trains, so I would operate the points in the hidden loops to bring a different train into view each time. With 8 hidden loops each capable of holding 2 trains I found the challenge to work out which train was where. It was also possible to spend all day playing trains without touching a hand controller. Oh what fun we had.

Edited September 18, 2017 by 96701

[robertcwp]

It would be soon much simpler with DCC, you only need 2 wires dontcha know?

 

Mike.

And three hundred decoders in the locos and units, possibly more. No DCC anytime soon for me.

[Tony Wright]

Thanks, as usual, for all the further comments on DCC (and banks).

 

For those who use DCC with complete success, I say 'good on you' If lights, bells, whistles, sounds, automation appeal to you, then that's the system to go for, especially if you understand it. 

 

If, however, like me you find any sort of computer anathema, you don't understand them, you don't understand DCC and aren't interested in lights or sound (model smoke, of any kind, doesn't work in my opinion, whether DCC-operated or not), then stick with analogue.

 

It's my experience that fault-finding is easier with DC (I've spent hours and hours trying to get a DCC system to work as well as I would have demanded - I failed!), though more wiring is required - simple, not complex, just extra. What I can't understand is why any self-respecting modeller would pay someone else to fit chips into his/her models. Why employ a system where one is incapable of doing even the most basic tasks? And, it'll cost you more when things go wrong.  

[coachmann]

Thanks, as usual, for all the further comments on DCC (and banks).

 

For those who use DCC with complete success, I say 'good on you' If lights, bells, whistles, sounds, automation appeal to you, then that's the system to go for, especially if you understand it. 

 

If, however, like me you find any sort of computer anathema, you don't understand them, you don't understand DCC and aren't interested in lights or sound (model smoke, of any kind, doesn't work in my opinion, whether DCC-operated or not), then stick with analogue.

 

It's my experience that fault-finding is easier with DC (I've spent hours and hours trying to get a DCC system to work as well as I would have demanded - I failed!), though more wiring is required - simple, not complex, just extra. What I can't understand is why any self-respecting modeller would pay someone else to fit chips into his/her models. Why employ a system where one is incapable of doing even the most basic tasks? And, it'll cost you more when things go wrong.  

Because fitting a decoder isn't always a 'basic task' as you call it. Why build a loco if you cannot paint and line it in apple green livery? Plugging in a decoder is not the same as hard-wiring one in along with a speaker and keep-alive. The soldering is for someone used to doing delicate work. I only recently installed my first sound decoder and felt quite pleased with myself. 

[Clive Mortimore]

And three hundred decoders in the locos and units, possibly more. No DCC anytime soon for me.

Hi Robert

 

I am much in the same boat, too many locos to make DCC affordable.

 

As for computer operated layouts, Andi Dell's Dagworth and Ravensclyffe both have computer control not a control panel. The computer is the signal box and is looked after by the signal/control who sets the routes and tells the driver which train they are now in charge of. As a driver you have to follow the signals, you do not change points etc. Neither layout is small and operator cooperation is paramount.

[4630]

 

As for computer operated layouts, Andi Dell's Dagworth and Ravensclyffe both have computer control not a control panel. The computer is the signal box and is looked after by the signal/control who sets the routes and tells the driver which train they are now in charge of. As a driver you have to follow the signals, you do not change points etc. Neither layout is small and operator cooperation is paramount.

 

 

Widnes Vine Yard is IMHO another very good example of computer control which permits 'proper operation' more akin to the real railway, i.e. the signaller signals and the driver observes the signals and drives appropriately.

 

But as with all things in our hobby, 'go with whatever floats your boat'.

[Tony Wright]

Because fitting a decoder isn't always a 'basic task' as you call it. Why build a loco if you cannot paint and line it in apple green livery? Plugging in a decoder is not the same as hard-wiring one in along with a speaker and keep-alive. The soldering is for someone used to doing delicate work. I only recently installed my first sound decoder and felt quite pleased with myself. 

Larry,

 

I was thinking more of where all one needs to do is lift the lid (be it the loco or tender body) and 'plug & play'. Granted, some more recent RTR locos are quite difficult to get in to, but a simple decoder installation should surely be within the ability of even the least experienced. Yet, I'm reliably informed that there is a good business in offering this (simple?) service. 

 

I'm not sure that painting a loco is is 'easy' as fitting a decoder, which your comment seems to imply (or at least that's what I infer from it). If it were, then your considerable skills would not be appreciated (as they should be). And, I have built locos and painted them in (full) lined apple green LNER livery (the results having been published). 

 

At least you're installing the DCC equipment yourself.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[St Enodoc]

Don't forget 'I' is a proper noun, and should always be a capital. 

I was always taught to say "I am" not "I is".

 

 

Sorry...

[St Enodoc]

The last remaining bank in our town will close in December.  Been with them 45 years but I got everything sorted in no time so business as usual.  If we all withdrew our money, maybe the bankers (a polite word) would feel the draft.

 

Re. DCC, the layout would only shut down completely if wired as such. Those who wired for DC then later converted to DCC probably (and wisely) retained their sections and left the switches on so that sections could be isolated to locate the short-circuit. Mine was wired all in one go and so leaving a tin or ruler across tracks in the fiddle yard is an old 'trick' of mine. It wont happen once the layout is finished and the storage tracks are no longer used for scenic materials, tools, tins of glue and what-not.

Banker's draft... very good!

[96701]

Thanks, as usual, for all the further comments on DCC (and banks).

 

For those who use DCC with complete success, I say 'good on you' If lights, bells, whistles, sounds, automation appeal to you, then that's the system to go for, especially if you understand it. 

 

If, however, like me you find any sort of computer anathema, you don't understand them, you don't understand DCC and aren't interested in lights or sound (model smoke, of any kind, doesn't work in my opinion, whether DCC-operated or not), then stick with analogue.

 

It's my experience that fault-finding is easier with DC (I've spent hours and hours trying to get a DCC system to work as well as I would have demanded - I failed!), though more wiring is required - simple, not complex, just extra. What I can't understand is why any self-respecting modeller would pay someone else to fit chips into his/her models. Why employ a system where one is incapable of doing even the most basic tasks? And, it'll cost you more when things go wrong.  

Tony,

 

The only basic difference between DCC and DC is that one doesn't need to have isolating sections with DCC, but one does have to have a decoder in every loco. Lights, sounds, whistles and bells are entirely optional. These are options with which I have no truck. If I can make a computer select a route or change a point, that is a demonstration of me being in charge of the computer, not the other way way round.

[allan downes]

Tony, remember Bishops Castle, the layout you photographed  ?

 

Well that was wired up for DCC at great expense and it didn't work then and still hasn't from the day you arrived and the day  we both left.

 

It now lies, untouched, unfinished and abandoned behind locked doors where literally thousands of pounds in locos and rolling stock will never move again but, then again, never did.

 

Allan.

[thegreenhowards]

Tony, remember Bishops Castle, the layout you photographed  ?

 

Well that was wired up for DCC at great expense and it didn't work then and still hasn't from the day you arrived and the day  we both left.

 

It now lies, untouched, unfinished and abandoned behind locked doors where literally thousands of pounds in locos and rolling stock will never move again but, then again, never did.

 

Allan.

Without knowing the details, that sounds more like a problem with someone who had bitten of more than they could chew, and could have happened as easily with DC as DCC.

[thegreenhowards]

Larry,

 

I was thinking more of where all one needs to do is lift the lid (be it the loco or tender body) and 'plug & play'. Granted, some more recent RTR locos are quite difficult to get in to, but a simple decoder installation should surely be within the ability of even the least experienced. Yet, I'm reliably informed that there is a good business in offering this (simple?) service. 

 

I'm not sure that painting a loco is is 'easy' as fitting a decoder, which your comment seems to imply (or at least that's what I infer from it). If it were, then your considerable skills would not be appreciated (as they should be). And, I have built locos and painted them in (full) lined apple green LNER livery (the results having been published). 

 

At least you're installing the DCC equipment yourself.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

 

Tony, I agree this sounds pretty poor, but I guess some people are scared of breaking bits on a £100+ loco when they take it apart. Some modellers probably want to concentrate on scenic modelling or operations rather than anything remotely technical and, if that is their bag, then why not?

 

As Larry suggests when it comes to fitting a sound system into a loco not designed for it, that is a major undertaking with parts costing well over £200 (including the loco), and some quite fiddly cutting and soldering. I can quite understand why people would pay for that to be done professionally.

 

Andy

[Lecorbusier]

Hi everyone,

 

Never posted here before but have enjoyed reading the discussions.

 

Probably a bit left centre and I know only really possible because I am starting out from scratch with no layout and no locos .... but

 

I am currently dipping the toe in the protocab radio control set up. Needs a bit of ingenuity to house the battery and logic board, but in this set up you really do drive the engine. The track is prototypically dead (of course we are talking steam/deisel here), and shorting or cleaning becomes irrelevant.

 

All very interesting ... just have to keep fingers crossed that the system lasts and doesn't go under in the next decade or so!

 

Tim

[Tony Wright]

I was always taught to say "I am" not "I is".

 

 

Sorry...

So you'd write 'I' am a proper noun?

 

We'll have some fun when I come over to Australia next year, John!

[gr.king]

Or "I am a proper......."

 

Fill in the blank to best effect!

[St Enodoc]

So you'd write 'I' am a proper noun?

 

We'll have some fun when I come over to Australia next year, John!

Forty-three years ago I couldn't even spell injuner engenier engineer.

 

Now I are one.

[DougN]

Glad you have made it to "gingerbeer" now St Enodoc.... depends what flavour