Wright writes.....

[St Enodoc]

The Panda eats shoots and leaves .... or the Panda eats, shoots, and leaves?

ES&L.jpg

Excellent book.

[St Enodoc]

Many thanks for this and other kind comments. I have now started a new thread for the layout (not wishing to over stay my welcome up Tony's own thread); it's in the 'layout topics' area and the link is in the signature below.

 

Just quickly to tidy up therefore - yes, it's the Jouef EE Type 4. Performed impeccably all weekend! And there is a gradient. A compromise 1-in-90 (I explain more on the new thread) so definitely some work for the locos to do and a fun challenge to find train locos and bankers that were compatible!

One of Barry's, built for Hartford Junction if I'm not mistaken?

[Daddyman]

Nice to meet you too, David and thank you for showing me that fascinating photo. Have you let John Smart see it?

Here it is for all to see, Jonathan. 

 

For those not part of the original conversation, this van (photographed at Kelso) puzzled me, which doesn't say much, but it turned out it also puzzled Jonathan and others. A bullion van was one suggestion. 

 

 

[Bernard Lamb]

 Opposite him was Bodmin well modeled but .....................

......because the layout had been erected on a planked wooden floor, every time anybody walked past the odd wagon in the yard jumped a scale foot in the air and rocked backwards and forward.

Bernard

[Lecorbusier]

 

 Opposite him was Bodmin well modeled but .....................

......because the layout had been erected on a planked wooden floor, every time anybody walked past the odd wagon in the yard jumped a scale foot in the air and rocked backwards and forward.

Bernard

 

If this is correct ... it is a classic example of how due to a situation beyond someones control completely the wrong impression is given - I suspect much to the stress of all those involved. How unfortunate.

 

I read somewhere about someone being positioned next to the live steam exhibit at one show and it played merry hell with the track pick up due to deposits falling on it ... yikes!

Edited November 28, 2017 by Lecorbusier

[Leander]

 I thought of just renumbering it, but no double-chimney 9F had the MR-style tender, unless anyone knows differently.  

Didn't 9F No. 92249 end up with a LMR style tender in 1967 following a depot tender exchange? This sort of thing happened from time to time as a result of a leaking tank on an otherwise perfectly serviceable loco. The simple expedient was to 'pinch' the better tender off a withdrawn classmate. Britannia No. 70014 also ended up with a high sided tender too.

 

[LNER4479]

[Jouef EE Type 4] One of Barry's, built for Hartford Junction if I'm not mistaken?

Actually mine John, oddly enough. I acquired it some 20 years ago, second hand, for running on Gowhole. Someone had repainted and detailed it and made a reasonable job of it. Also has the small yellow panel which was more typical for 1967, although some were also getting full yellow panels by then. Runs well enough; a bit slow but proved ideal for the banking operations when paired up with Barry's DJH Std 4 75037.

[APOLLO]

I have a couple of Lima EE Type 4's and a Jouef one bought new donkeys years ago. Though they all run / pull well they just don't look right parked alongside each other. One is too wide, or one too narrow, or perhaps a bit of both !! How do they compare with a Bachmann one ?

 

If you model Shap after 1960ish you need plenty EE type 4's (Big D's). Don't bother with the MTK kit though !!!!.

 

Brit15

Edited November 28, 2017 by APOLLO

[Barry Ten]

Nice to see those pictures of the Tebay layout. I only saw it the once (Alexander Palace, I think) but I'd read the article in Railway Modeller and the layout certainly didn't disappoint in the flesh.

[Clive Mortimore]

 

 Opposite him was Bodmin well modeled but .....................

......because the layout had been erected on a planked wooden floor, every time anybody walked past the odd wagon in the yard jumped a scale foot in the air and rocked backwards and forward.

Bernard

 

Hi Bernard

 

I don't think I mentioned which show, and to be honest every time I have seen Bodmin I have marveled at the level of modelling but been a tad disappointed with the railway movements. I am sure many people have said and think the same of my efforts when I have been out and about. 

[Lecorbusier]

I don't think I mentioned which show, 

Presumably the show at which Peter Gentle's 3mm branch terminus was opposite Bodmin? .... or did this arrangement occur regularly?

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

 

On more thing, I am heartily sick and tired of the incorrect use of 'sat' instead of 'sitting'. It's yet again sat prominent in one of the magazines. 

 

Amended.

 

Mike.

[asmay2002]

Finally, I'm surprised nobody has noticed that the 9F of mine on Shap has a double chimney, which it shouldn't have. Since I didn't build it (but made it work more smoothly), I can't be blamed. However, when it next runs on your superb new layout, it'll have a single chimney. I thought of just renumbering it, but no double-chimney 9F had the MR-style tender, unless anyone knows differently.  

92165-7 the stoker fitted engines all had the BR1K with 92166 getting a BR1C in '66. 92218 got a BR1C in '67.  BR1B attached to  92233 and 92249 in '65, 92215 in '67.  I'd go for one of the stoker fitted engines.

[great central]

If this is correct ... it is a classic example of how due to a situation beyond someones control completely the wrong impression is given - I suspect much to the stress of all those involved. How unfortunate.

 

I read somewhere about someone being positioned next to the live steam exhibit at one show and it played merry hell with the track pick up due to deposits falling on it ... yikes!

Mentioned this previously I think, but we took Deepcar to Barrow Hill in it's early days. Layout in the main roundhouse with locos in steam all weekend, one of which was a Jubilee. The scenery acted like a giant sponge soaking up moisture from the air, this being a few weeks before Christmas. We had all sorts of problems at our next show a few weeks later at Rochdale, one of the packing boards still has the grease from the depot floor ingrained. We put that down so that we weren't kneeling in the accumulation of many years of oil, water, coal and ash.

Not been to BH for a good few years now, probably quite sterile by now.

[Tony Wright]

Didn't 9F No. 92249 end up with a LMR style tender in 1967 following a depot tender exchange? This sort of thing happened from time to time as a result of a leaking tank on an otherwise perfectly serviceable loco. The simple expedient was to 'pinch' the better tender off a withdrawn classmate. Britannia No. 70014 also ended up with a high sided tender too.

 

Thanks Pete,

 

However, 1967 is far too late for my time (though all right for Shap), and the idea is to use that 9F on both Shap and LB. Though most 9Fs running on the ECML would have the larger-capacity 1F tenders, a few could be seen with the MR-style tender. So, it could well be a renumbering exercise as well as a single chimney. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

Re position of lining on Gresley coaches, have a look at the photo in this post from Gilbert's Peterborough North topic:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/18451-peterborough-north/?p=2939407

Thanks John,

 

It is a familiar picture, and I'd say the date is definitely no earlier than 1959. The two cars with lower lining are allocated to the ScR, hence the difference between them and the ER-allocated Gresley in the train above. 

 

What the picture does show is how vast the actual site at Peterborough North was, even though the station itself was very cramped. I know of two other PNs which are being constructed - one with over 45' x 25' to play with, the other (just) slightly less. Both will still have to be compressed. I wish them well. 

 

Mention has been made of the number of ex-PO wagons visible in the scene. Working for BRILL from time to time, the latest example of an ex-PO wagon (with the livery still visible) found dates from 1965! And, it was still running. The current issue has further examples, dating from 1952.  

[Tony Wright]

At the Warley Show, Bob Dawson delivered the pair of semis which virtually complete the buildings for LB. 

 

Yesterday evening and this morning, I fixed them in place, added scenic dressings around, erected any fences and telegraph poles, then took these pictures. 

 

 

 

 

Though these still stand, over the years they've been extended, porches built and windows replaced and re-positioned. We had no 60-year old pictures to work with, so Bob guessed at what might be (where the original windows were is marked by slightly different bricks in the in-fills on the real things). 

 

I'm absolutely delighted with these in situ, and the whole scene looks really 'natural', with loads of space for items to 'breath'. One thing I'm not sure of is what road markings there might be. In 1958, am I right in assuming that there'd be a 'major road ahead' sign of some description, and white marks at the junction and in the centre of the roads? 

 

Ellen Sparkes' beautiful little gardens fit in perfectly. Thank you young lady.

 

Finally, can anyone tell which gauge the railway has? 

Edited November 28, 2017 by Tony Wright

[davefrk]

 

Finally, can anyone tell which gauge the railway has? 

 

There's an old expression about being able to start a fight in an empty house....

 

Dave Franks.

[Headstock]

Thanks for that Andrew.

 

I believe the train in question was the morning Crewe-Carlisle parcels service. It features in innumerable 1960's pictures by both Derek Cross and Ivo Peters and was legendary in terms of the sheer length of train that it often ran as. Up till 1964, a Duchess could take it single-handed so at least it provided a load worthy of their mighty power; thereafter it was frequently double-headed(!).

 

IMG_9905.jpg

Here we are having a bit of fun with ours back at base - anyone who visited the layout in the last hour of each day would have seen the train so hauled. It is the longest train we run and is the equivalent of 12 bogies in length. Very satisfactorily, the new Duchess handles the train up our incline on her own with just the faintest hint of slipping whereas the Brit is gutless and really does need the Black 5 to assist it!

 

Of interest to yourself no doubt is that the formation we settled on is based on study of numerous photos, mainly from the excellent Ivo Peters book from his visits to the area 1965-1967. The brake van invariably figures and several people have told me recently that the reason for its inclusion was that, although numerous other vehicles had guard's areas, through heating of the train could not be guaranteed (due to the inclusion of numerous, assorted vans which were not fitted with heating pipes), hence the guards - no doubt emboldened by their union - insisted in a traditional form of keeping themselves warm.

 

On a more personal basis, my father filmed the train on 8mm cine film during his visit to Shap in August 1964 and it was indeed 46256 herself at the business end, confidently striding up the bank at Scout Green with the usual long train - and no banker in sight!

 

I saw Tebay several times at exhibitions and loved it. I also bought the BRM video (that shows how long ago it was!) so it's nice to make the connection.

 

Many thanks,

 

as soon as I saw Tony's original photo I thought to myself 'I know that train', can a bigger compliment be paid ? Some years back I remember watching a reasonably well known layout of another location familiar to myself, I didn't recognise a single train running on it! Again, copy the real railway and you can't go far wrong.

 

With regard to the Crewe - Carlisle parcels, my memory returns, what a superb recreation in the photo with 46256. Not surprisingly the Crewe-Carlisle was also the longest train on Tebay, surpassing the likes of the Midday Scot. The later was quite a hefty beast in its own right at over twelve bogies. Two other trains that I recall being double headed on Tebay were the Royal Scot (with the 'Twins') and one of the Euston - Glasgow expresses. As you will probably know, the later picked up a pilot engine at Oxenholme (usually a 2-6-4 tank) rather than a banker at Tebay.

 

My Father travelled behind 46256 on its final run before withdrawal. Crewe to Carlisle with the Duchess, then No 7 for a stunning performance over the Waverley route. The tour finally returned to Carlisle behind No 9. 46256 then commenced its final epic run, flattening Shap on the northbound climb. There then commenced a final blistering run down to Crewe, here 46256 came off the train for the last time and it and the Stanier Pacific's passed into the History books. Rather amusingly, No 7 had earlier set off wrong road from Carlisle, towards Beattock. A rather severe brake application was applied and the whole train had to be reversed back into Carlisle station to gain the right road.

[LNER4479]

At the Warley Show, Bob Dawson delivered the pair of semis which virtually complete the buildings for LB. 

 

I'm absolutely delighted with these in situ, and the whole scene looks really 'natural', with loads of space for items to 'breath'.

You have reason to be so Tony - they look lovely and, as you say, blend into the spacious scene.

[Nick Holliday]

Here it is for all to see, Jonathan. 

 

For those not part of the original conversation, this van (photographed at Kelso) puzzled me, which doesn't say much, but it turned out it also puzzled Jonathan and others. A bullion van was one suggestion. 

 

20171125_1049451.jpg

Although I am no expert, I think the mystery vehicle is a fairly bog-standard LNWR toplight elliptical roofed full brake. NPCS tend to fall into the crack between passenger and goods stock, and Jenkinson's book has limited info, but there is a photo, Plate 118, which matches the mystery one, and is quoted as D382. There may be a chance that it was originally WCJS, but my references on the subject are equally vague. There is also a different view in the HMRS book on non-corridor LNWR coaches, on page 114 of that volume.

[LNER4479]

With regard to the Crewe - Carlisle parcels, my memory returns, what a superb recreation in the photo with 46256. Not surprisingly the Crewe-Carlisle was also the longest train on Tebay, surpassing the likes of the Midday Scot. The later was quite a hefty beast in its own right at over twelve bogies. Two other trains that I recall being double headed on Tebay were the Royal Scot (with the 'Twins') and one of the Euston - Glasgow expresses. As you will probably know, the later picked up a pilot engine at Oxenholme (usually a 2-6-4 tank) rather than a banker at Tebay.

 

My Father travelled behind 46256 on its final run before withdrawal. Crewe to Carlisle with the Duchess, then No 7 for a stunning performance over the Waverley route. The tour finally returned to Carlisle behind No 9. 46256 then commenced its final epic run, flattening Shap on the northbound climb. There then commenced a final blistering run down to Crewe, here 46256 came off the train for the last time and it and the Stanier Pacific's passed into the History books. Rather amusingly, No 7 had earlier set off wrong road from Carlisle, towards Beattock. A rather severe brake application was applied and the whole train had to be reversed back into Carlisle station to gain the right road.

Great stuff. My stepfather was a fellow traveller alongside your Dad on 26th September 1964 in that case. I have a recreation of that train firmly in my sights, for which a yellow stripe will have to be applied(!) Along with the parcels train, that was the reason for acquiring 46256 recently. Although I normally stay away from scrum of being the first to have the latest RTR loco, I made an exception in her (his!) case. For the last hour at Warley we had 'Sir William' (on the parcels) and 'Sir Nigel' (on the railtour) following each other up the bank - couldn't resist it!

[Andrew P]

At the Warley Show, Bob Dawson delivered the pair of semis which virtually complete the buildings for LB. 

 

Yesterday evening and this morning, I fixed them in place, added scenic dressings around, erected any fences and telegraph poles, then took these pictures. 

 

semis 01.jpg

 

semis 02.jpg

 

semis 03.jpg

 

Though these still stand, over the years they've been extended, porches built and windows replaced and re-positioned. We had no 60-year old pictures to work with, so Bob guessed at what might be (where the original windows were is marked by slightly different bricks in the in-fills on the real things). 

 

I'm absolutely delighted with these in situ, and the whole scene looks really 'natural', with loads of space for items to 'breath'. One thing I'm not sure of is what road markings there might be. In 1958, am I right in assuming that there'd be a 'major road ahead' sign of some description, and white marks at the junction and in the centre of the roads? 

 

Ellen Sparkes' beautiful little gardens fit in perfectly. Thank you young lady.

 

Finally, can anyone tell which gauge the railway has? 

Stunning work by Bob, and yourself there Tony.

[Headstock]

Re position of lining on Gresley coaches, have a look at the photo in this post from Gilbert's Peterborough North topic:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/18451-peterborough-north/?p=2939407

 

Some of the comments on the thread are quite amusing. a general disbelief that Gresley carriages and Crimson and cream could possibly exist at this time. If replicating the scene, probably eighty percent of the stock would have to be built including two differen't diagrams of LMS van and an LNER 8 plank masquerading as a PO wagon. Incidental, the BG upper right,has been identified as an LMS standard type. Far from it, it's a dia 1715 with features very different from the standard 50' BG, that is if the LMS had such a thing as a standard BG.

What better example of modelling what was actually there rather than what folk are familiar with or believe should be there ?

[Tony Wright]

There's an old expression about being able to start a fight in an empty house....

 

Dave Franks.

Me, a pugilist? 

 

To quote Woody Allen, 'I get beaten up by Quaker dwarfs'!