Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

Thanks for all the advice on the flights.

 

It's come my (sad) way again to try and find new homes for models which belonged to the deceased. This time, it's something rather different. 

 

Horace Dunkley died two years ago. He'd just been getting the layout of his 'dreams' together, based on Buckfastleigh. Baseboard were erected and the basic work begun when he became very ill. Regrettably, it went no further. He'd commissioned Geoff Taylor to make the buildings for him. Geoff, as is well known, is one of the foremost architectural modellers in the land. It's these buildings which I'm hoping to sell. All are in 4mm, beautifully-made and the commissioned cost was over £11,000. Obviously, on behalf of his widow (who is donating a substantial amount of what's raised to the brain injury section at Leicester Hospital), I'd like to get the best prices for the following items................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

More in the next post...................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2017 by Tony Wright

[Tony Wright]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are also other sundry items, such as platforms and platform furniture. 

 

Would anyone interested in any of these items, please PM me. It's fair to say nobody expects £11,000 (unless someone is very philanthropic), but a fair price will be requested.

 

Many thanks in anticipation. 

 

10% of all proceeds will be donated to Cancer Research.  

 

[Tony Wright]

To return to one of my personal hobby horses. 

 

Construction of the DJH A2/2 continues apace (the tender is now complete). It'll be 60505 THANE OF FIFE, which means a rimmed chimney. Now, DJH does not supply a hollow double chimney. There are twin depressions, but they're far too shallow. 

 

 

The first job is to SOLDER the chimney in place with low-melt (why solder, will be revealed later). The trick is to just touch the rear base of the chimney with the iron from the outside, making a tack. Once happy, solder can then be applied from the inside, with the usual asbestos finger holding it in position. 

 

 

Then two pilot holes can be drilled, using a pin vice. 

 

 

 

Then progressively larger holes can be drilled using a mini drill. 

 

 

Do not attempt to drill the full-sized holes with a mini drill. Use a tap wrench (gripping the bit just below the shank for purchase).

 

 

Finish off with an appropriate size of taper broach. 

 

 

Remember that the chimneys have liners, so leave a little inside the rims. 

 

Why do I advocate solder? Because (and I know this from personal experience) glued-in-place-chimneys (any glue) will just wrench off subject to this kind of treatment. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Clive Mortimore]

To return to one of my personal hobby horses.

 

edited

 

Why do I advocate solder? Because (and I know this from personal experience) glued-in-place-chimneys (any glue) will just wrench off subject to this kind of treatment. 

Hello Tony

 

I am sure I am not the only one but had I tried to glue the chimney on with super glue I would still be looking for it on the floor with 2 pounds of white metal locomotive stuck to my index finger.

[johnarcher]

John,

 

One can start with the tender, which is easier to make (it's basically a box). If you mess that up, the cost of a replacement will be less than the loco. 

Thank you, that makes sense.

I suppose I am biased by my own preference for the convenient motor space of side tanks. Fortunately most of those I have tackled, or plan to, (on GW or Irish narrow gauge) are so equipped.

[Willie Whizz]

Tony, for those of us who are wary of finding out the hard way that we are not possessed of 'asbestos fingers', I wonder whether you consider it's practical to use something like Blu-Tack, or Tacky-Wax, or some-such medium, to hold things in place from one side while soldering from the other?  Or might that just make bad smells and ineradicable marks?

[Enterprisingwestern]

 Or might that just make bad smells and ineradicable marks?

 

I'm afraid you got that the wrong way round, that's the burnt finger aftermath!

Once you get into your stride you will "develop" your asbestos fingers, if not, bits of wood, cloth etc will protect you.

 

Mike.

[Ian Smeeton]

Having chef's fingers (even after a few years out of the kitchen), all I can say is that it comes with time.

 

It doesn't hurt too much!

 

If it does, you have had the iron on the metal for far too long!

 

I am keeping my asbestos bits in trim fitting check rails to 16 sets of points this evening, and apart from a slight loss of the sense of touch, can report no lasting damage to either myself or the track. Phew!

 

Typing this up afterwards, though, the lack of sensitivity coupled with my natural dearth of dexterity, means that I shall have to read it through several times to find all the typos.

 

Many thanks for the advice re: first loco kits, I will keep my eyes skinned for the right candidate.

 

Regards

 

Ian

[micklner]

Tony, for those of us who are wary of finding out the hard way that we are not possessed of 'asbestos fingers', I wonder whether you consider it's practical to use something like Blu-Tack, or Tacky-Wax, or some-such medium, to hold things in place from one side while soldering from the other?  Or might that just make bad smells and ineradicable marks?

 

I use decent tweezers, sometimes small drills  and pieces of wood , to hold the parts in place, whilst soldering.

.

I do not like pain, burnt skin is not necessary to solder anything and should be avoided at all costs. When such comments are read by newcomers , it can or will create another nail in the "will or won't I" brigade of kit makers , and scare them away from kit building. 

 

Major parts of white metal kits don't have to be soldered, Araldite or similar  is more than adequate when joining surfaces that are large enough. Brass and Nickel Silver parts solder every time .

[Jesse Sim]

To return to one of my personal hobby horses. 

 

Construction of the DJH A2/2 continues apace (the tender is now complete). It'll be 60505 THANE OF FIFE, which means a rimmed chimney. Now, DJH does not supply a hollow double chimney. There are twin depressions, but they're far too shallow. 

 

A 2 2 06 chimney.jpg

 

The first job is to SOLDER the chimney in place with low-melt (why solder, will be revealed later). The trick is to just touch the rear base of the chimney with the iron from the outside, making a tack. Once happy, solder can then be applied from the inside, with the usual asbestos finger holding it in position. 

 

A 2 2 07 chimney.jpg

 

Then two pilot holes can be drilled, using a pin vice. 

 

A 2 2 08 chimney.jpg

 

A 2 2 09 chimney.jpg

 

Then progressively larger holes can be drilled using a mini drill. 

 

A 2 2 10 chimney.jpg

 

Do not attempt to drill the full-sized holes with a mini drill. Use a tap wrench (gripping the bit just below the shank for purchase).

 

A 2 2 11 chimney.jpg

 

Finish off with an appropriate size of taper broach. 

 

A 2 2 12 chimney.jpg

 

Remember that the chimneys have liners, so leave a little inside the rims. 

 

Why do I advocate solder? Because (and I know this from personal experience) glued-in-place-chimneys (any glue) will just wrench off subject to this kind of treatment. 

On the topic of solder, my two LRM tenders arrived yesterday. I have the assortment of files, cutters, tin snips, etc, etc. 

 

What sort of flux will i need, as well as solder? 

 

I keep seeing low melt solder, that is obviously for white metal parts? 

 

What about brass?

 

Cheers Tony,

 

Be prepared for lots of questions, if I get these tenders right, I'll move on to a J6.

 

Jesse 

[Buhar]

I saw (and may even have bought) a leather finger/thumb protector, a bit like a large flexible thimble.  It may have been at Eileen's.  You could sacrifice some gardening gloves as an alternative.

[Tony Wright]

I use decent tweezers, sometimes small drills  and pieces of wood , to hold the parts in place, whilst soldering.

.

I do not like pain, burnt skin is not necessary to solder anything and should be avoided at all costs. When such comments are read by newcomers , it can or will create another nail in the "will or won't I" brigade of kit makers , and scare them away from kit building. 

 

Major parts of white metal kits don't have to be soldered, Araldite or similar  is more than adequate when joining surfaces that are large enough. Brass and Nickel Silver parts solder every time .

Mick,

 

I don't know anyone who likes pain. 

 

However (and could this be a case of 'do as I say, not as I do?'), getting hardened skin on the end of fingers and thumb comes with soldering. I've tried lots of methods for holding bits in place when soldering, but none works better than the digits on my left hand. If I get hardened ends to my fingers and thumb, I'm prepared to accept these as a consequence of soldering things together, properly. Every 'foreign' aid I've tried always moves just at the wrong time.

 

As for discouraging the 'will or won't brigade' by implying 'pain', well, the quicker they learn, the better in my view. Railway modelling is a potentially 'dangerous' hobby, and it would be disingenuous to tell newcomers otherwise. If the sight of blood makes you (the generic 'you')  swoon, then don't use knives or saws, or any other sharp instruments. This morning, for what must be the millionth time, I poked a hole in my finger when opening out an aperture with a small broach. Yes, the perceived wisdom is not to leave your finger anywhere near danger, but it happens. I bled a little, stuck some Germoline on the wound after washing it and carried on! 

 

Glues and flux give off dangerous fumes, solder and white metal contain all sorts of nasty metals and the risk of injury (minor, to be fair) is always there. We cannot indulge in a constructional hobby which is risk-free (unless you get others to do all your railway modelling for you). Yes, we can minimise the risks, but they'll always be there, whether it be sawing wood for baseboards, screwing things together (or screwing up in my case), cutting track, laying track, wiring up, making scenery, signals, buildings, locos, carriages, wagons or anything else which requires sawing, cutting, joining, stripping, forming, bolting, screwing, soldering, gluing, etc, etc, etc. 

 

As for gluing the bigger white metal bits together (with epoxy?), since you're always advocating what you think is the best way of doing things, why not recommend the very best way of fixing the bits together - soldering? I'm rather happy at being able to take glued-together kits apart with just my fingers (after a few years, or a few weeks if superglue or the likes of contact adhesives have been used), cleaning them up and then reassembling them with solder. They're usually very cheap! 

 

Solder is instantly fixed when it's cooled down. If the joint needs adjustment, then reintroduce the iron. Glued joints have a nasty habit of moving as the stuff cures. Even five-minute expoxies take, erm, five minutes to set. Solder takes five seconds, then, on to the next bit. I'll have soldered together a smokebox/boiler/firebox/footplate in the time it takes glue to set just fixing two of those bits together.   

[Tony Wright]

On the topic of solder, my two LRM tenders arrived yesterday. I have the assortment of files, cutters, tin snips, etc, etc. 

 

What sort of flux will i need, as well as solder? 

 

I keep seeing low melt solder, that is obviously for white metal parts? 

 

What about brass?

 

Cheers Tony,

 

Be prepared for lots of questions, if I get these tenders right, I'll move on to a J6.

 

Jesse 

Flux and solder, Jesse, for brass/nickel silver? 

 

145 degree solder and 12% phosphoric acid flux. Set the iron to about 350 degrees (dependent on the size of the parts to be joined), slosh the joint with flux and away you go with a bead of solder on the bit. 

 

Don't breath during the process (otherwise you'll cough) and be prepared for a little pain. You play cricket, don't you (you're an Aussie, after all)? The ball is hard and it hurts if it hits you, but playing cricket with a soft ball is, well, for tiny tots. 

 

You'll swear a lot, and it won't always work, but you'll be a 'proper' railway modeller. 

 

I await to see progress. 

[Bernard Lamb]

 

 

The first job is to SOLDER the chimney in place with low-melt (why solder, will be revealed later). The trick is to just touch the rear base of the chimney with the iron from the outside, making a tack. Once happy, solder can then be applied from the inside, with the usual asbestos finger holding it in position. 

 

 

Why?

I would have drilled out the holes before fixing the chimney to the locomotive.

Hold chimney in vice using rubber inserts in the jaws to prevent damage and work as per your excellent method.

But then I am just a pragmatic engineer. Doing it my way does mean that if you mess it up it is easier to have another go and any danger of collateral damage to the body is avoided.

Bernard 

[Tony Wright]

Tony, for those of us who are wary of finding out the hard way that we are not possessed of 'asbestos fingers', I wonder whether you consider it's practical to use something like Blu-Tack, or Tacky-Wax, or some-such medium, to hold things in place from one side while soldering from the other?  Or might that just make bad smells and ineradicable marks?

See previous posts, please.

 

Tacky Wax is useless for holding things while soldering (what can it be used for?). I don't know about Blu-Tak, since I only use it for holding loco headlamps and train headboards in place. 

[Jesse Sim]

Flux and solder, Jesse, for brass/nickel silver? 

 

145 degree solder and 12% phosphoric acid flux. Set the iron to about 350 degrees (dependent on the size of the parts to be joined), slosh the joint with flux and away you go with a bead of solder on the bit. 

 

Don't breath during the process (otherwise you'll cough) and be prepared for a little pain. You play cricket, don't you (you're an Aussie, after all)? The ball is hard and it hurts if it hits you, but playing cricket with a soft ball is, well, for tiny tots. 

 

You'll swear a lot, and it won't always work, but you'll be a 'proper' railway modeller. 

 

I await to see progress. 

Thanks Tony, 

 

I don't play cricket, I am more of a NRL ( National Rugby League) player/supporter. But, there's nothing like a game of backyard cricket with a few beers on a hot summers day, so I kind of get what you mean.

 

As soon as I have something worth showing, I'll post them up. 

 

Have you started on the C2? I was going to suggest that I could just pick it up from you when I stay in August next year? That is if the offer is still there. 

Edited December 5, 2017 by Jesse Sim

[Tony Wright]

Why?

I would have drilled out the holes before fixing the chimney to the locomotive.

Hold chimney in vice using rubber inserts in the jaws to prevent damage and work as per your excellent method.

But then I am just a pragmatic engineer. Doing it my way does mean that if you mess it up it is easier to have another go and any danger of collateral damage to the body is avoided.

Bernard 

Thanks Bernard,

 

Would you then glue the drilled-out chimney in place? 

 

The reason I solder on the chimney first is because DJH provide a single hole (to be enlarged) on the top of the smokebox to take the chimney. A stub is present underneath the leading pot to fit into this. This allows me to flood the joint with solder from the inside (after the initial tack has been made), allowing capillary action to draw the solder all the way around the chimney's base, thus fixing it forever and also filling the joint with the smokebox. 

 

With an already drilled-out chimney, how would you fix it in place with solder, from the inside, without drilling out holes in the smokebox first, assuming they'd be in the right place. Soldering white metal to white metal from the outside, takes far too long to clean up. If you glue the pre-drilled chimney in place, there's precious little 'land' for it to grip to, resulting (possibly) in its coming adrift when you drill through the smokebox. 

 

I agree, there is the risk of damaging the smokebox, but it's the method I prefer. Then, I'm not an engineer.

 

I hope this all makes sense.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited December 5, 2017 by Tony Wright

[Jol Wilkinson]

One way of dealing with flux fumes is to use a small worktop extractor fan. Maplin supply one and I am sure there are other sources.

 

https://www.maplin.co.uk/search/?text=fume%20extractor

 

For holding bits together when soldering, fingers may be replaced by locking tweezers, aluminium hair grips, wooden clothes pegs, soft iron wire (very good for bringing rolled boiler seam joins together).  Carrs used to supply a High Temperature tape, which was probably a generic product such as this available from Apetap. 

 

http://www.apetape.co.uk/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=polyimide-heat-chemical-resistant-tape-3mm&sid=0i3680nb45k8976yln5l6ie7004g0ym4

 

Generally I have more problems holding bits together while the glue dries than I do soldering stuff.

 

[Tony Wright]

Thanks Tony, 

 

I don't play cricket, I am more of a NRL ( National Rugby League) player/supporter. But, there's nothing like a game of backyard cricket with a few beers on a hot summers day, so I kind of get what you mean.

 

As soon as I have something worth showing, I'll post them up. 

 

Have you started on the C2? I was going to suggest that I could just pick it up from you when I stay in August next year? That is if the offer is still there. 

The offer is still there, Jesse, for August next year (you'll be needed for the retro LB weekend). 

 

I'll start the C2 early in the New Year. 

 

An Aussie who doesn't play cricket?!!!!!!

 

I'm reminded of a new teacher's arrival at my school, many years ago. I was the staff social secretary and was always on the look out for players for my staff football, rugby or cricket teams. He fitted the bill - a bloke, young (apparently fit) and, Lordy, Lordy, he came from Yorkshire!. He'd started after Easter, so I asked him what he did - bat, bowl, keeper, all-rounder? 'I don't know what you mean', said he. 'Good joke, Dave', said I. 'No, I mean it, I don't play cricket'.

 

I never spoke to him again! I didn't tell my Dad either, he being from God's own County. 

[Tony Wright]

One way of dealing with flux fumes is to use a small worktop extractor fan. Maplin supply one and I am sure there are other sources.

 

https://www.maplin.co.uk/search/?text=fume%20extractor

 

For holding bits together when soldering, fingers may be replaced by locking tweezers, aluminium hair grips, wooden clothes pegs, soft iron wire (very good for bringing rolled boiler seam joins together).  Carrs used to supply a High Temperature tape, which was probably a generic product such as this available from Apetap. 

 

http://www.apetape.co.uk/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=polyimide-heat-chemical-resistant-tape-3mm&sid=0i3680nb45k8976yln5l6ie7004g0ym4

 

Generally I have more problems holding bits together while the glue dries than I do soldering stuff.

Thanks for mentioning those things, Jol,

 

Soft iron wire? Yes, I'd forgotten that. Perfect for holding in place a smokebox wrapper while soldering takes place. It doesn't solder itself, either. 

 

Not even I'm daft enough to hold a wrapper between fingers and thumb when I solder that. 

[micklner]

Mick,

 

I don't know anyone who likes pain. 

 

However (and could this be a case of 'do as I say, not as I do?'), getting hardened skin on the end of fingers and thumb comes with soldering. I've tried lots of methods for holding bits in place when soldering, but none works better than the digits on my left hand. If I get hardened ends to my fingers and thumb, I'm prepared to accept these as a consequence of soldering things together, properly. Every 'foreign' aid I've tried always moves just at the wrong time.

 

As for discouraging the 'will or won't brigade' by implying 'pain', well, the quicker they learn, the better in my view. Railway modelling is a potentially 'dangerous' hobby, and it would be disingenuous to tell newcomers otherwise. If the sight of blood makes you (the generic 'you')  swoon, then don't use knives or saws, or any other sharp instruments. This morning, for what must be the millionth time, I poked a hole in my finger when opening out an aperture with a small broach. Yes, the perceived wisdom is not to leave your finger anywhere near danger, but it happens. I bled a little, stuck some Germoline on the wound after washing it and carried on! 

 

Glues and flux give off dangerous fumes, solder and white metal contain all sorts of nasty metals and the risk of injury (minor, to be fair) is always there. We cannot indulge in a constructional hobby which is risk-free (unless you get others to do all your railway modelling for you). Yes, we can minimise the risks, but they'll always be there, whether it be sawing wood for baseboards, screwing things together (or screwing up in my case), cutting track, laying track, wiring up, making scenery, signals, buildings, locos, carriages, wagons or anything else which requires sawing, cutting, joining, stripping, forming, bolting, screwing, soldering, gluing, etc, etc, etc. 

 

As for gluing the bigger white metal bits together (with epoxy?), since you're always advocating what you think is the best way of doing things, why not recommend the very best way of fixing the bits together - soldering? I'm rather happy at being able to take glued-together kits apart with just my fingers (after a few years, or a few weeks if superglue or the likes of contact adhesives have been used), cleaning them up and then reassembling them with solder. They're usually very cheap! 

 

Solder is instantly fixed when it's cooled down. If the joint needs adjustment, then reintroduce the iron. Glued joints have a nasty habit of moving as the stuff cures. Even five-minute expoxies take, erm, five minutes to set. Solder takes five seconds, then, on to the next bit. I'll have soldered together a smokebox/boiler/firebox/footplate in the time it takes glue to set just fixing two of those bits together.   

 

Sorry Tony I can't agree re getting hard skin on your fingers is a acceptable result/practise  for making anything kits or otherwise by the  soldering method. I have burnt myself a very few times over the years and like anyone else you learn very quickly to avoid the dangers and very quickly work out methods to avoid burning yourself.

 

 As for cutting myself in minor ways, that is a accepted side line of making any kits and always will be a size issue. I carry minor cuts 99% of the time. Any D.I.y carries a obvious danger of injury, and people should follow safe procedures all of the time.

 

Flux , some are horrible and or very nasty horrible stuff, I avoid the stuff whenever possible , easy answer is use this flux

http://www.7mmlocomotives.co.uk//index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=1&category_id=1&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=52&vmcchk=1&Itemid=52. .

 

I get excellent result no fumes etc and cleans up easily too.

 

 

I suggested glue as a alternative method simply because as said on here on numerous occasions  some people  are 1. scared of soldering 2. don't know or won't try to learn how to solder correctly. As a result a possible kit maker either 1. doesn't bother to learn  or simply turn to a plastic kit never to be seen again, or they  just buy r.t.r !! 

 

I solder everything when it its a viable method. You cannot always have access to parts that need attaching during a build. Personally if I can't access the underneath of a part to solder it together then I will simply glue that part on, once all parts requiring solder are fixed on the to the kit first. I will not risk melting the other part.

 

There seems to be an idea, that everything must be soldered when building a kit ,sorry that I do not agree with that as correct advice. when mentioned here and elsewhere.  If parts such as chimneys, domes etc are not subject to stress e.g drilling ,then I glue them on. Soldering mistakes whilst normally easy to remelt, still carry the very high risk of melting the white metal parts very easily.

Edited December 5, 2017 by micklner

[DougN]

As Jesse is here in Australia I have written the below with local suppliers!

 

If you struggle to get the flux, Brunel models sell it. I am positive one of the model shops in Sydney sells it but I would suggest a phone call first as the Brunel is the only one left here in Melbourne that stock low melt solders, 70, 145, 180. and the flux. there is a couple of other things I find invaluable, Icy pole sticks (Bunnings in packs of 100) as these can save the fingers from the singeing as I find I can have one stick along my thumb and position another on the other side held by the fingers! It is great for dexterity! The other item is the etched shears from  Xucon. I have found these invaluable! saves the file as it will cut as small as the cusp only. Jol above has suggested a couple of things which could be available from Jaycar but again depending on how deep the wallet is feeling on the day. 

 

Also a hold and fold can be very handy too.... life long investment that one! I have the medium version due to coach sole bars but generally the small would do most of the work I have given it! BTW they dont like flux.... the underside of mine is a little worse for wear due to it! 

[Jesse Sim]

The offer is still there, Jesse, for August next year (you'll be needed for the retro LB weekend). 

 

I'll start the C2 early in the New Year. 

 

An Aussie who doesn't play cricket?!!!!!!

 

I'm reminded of a new teacher's arrival at my school, many years ago. I was the staff social secretary and was always on the look out for players for my staff football, rugby or cricket teams. He fitted the bill - a bloke, young (apparently fit) and, Lordy, Lordy, he came from Yorkshire!. He'd started after Easter, so I asked him what he did - bat, bowl, keeper, all-rounder? 'I don't know what you mean', said he. 'Good joke, Dave', said I. 'No, I mean it, I don't play cricket'.

 

I never spoke to him again! I didn't tell my Dad either, he being from God's own County. 

Excellent, I'll be booking in the New Year. Shall I keep a particular weekend in August for the back dating of LB?

 

I know, I know, 'sacrilege' as my overly keen cricket mates would say. 

 

But then again, half of them cannot play pool, where as I am an excellent pool player at my local pub. 

[Jesse Sim]

As Jesse is here in Australia I have written the below with local suppliers!

 

If you struggle to get the flux, Brunel models sell it. I am positive one of the model shops in Sydney sells it but I would suggest a phone call first as the Brunel is the only one left here in Melbourne that stock low melt solders, 70, 145, 180. and the flux. there is a couple of other things I find invaluable, Icy pole sticks (Bunnings in packs of 100) as these can save the fingers from the singeing as I find I can have one stick along my thumb and position another on the other side held by the fingers! It is great for dexterity! The other item is the etched shears from  Xucon. I have found these invaluable! saves the file as it will cut as small as the cusp only. Jol above has suggested a couple of things which could be available from Jaycar but again depending on how deep the wallet is feeling on the day. 

 

Also a hold and fold can be very handy too.... life long investment that one! I have the medium version due to coach sole bars but generally the small would do most of the work I have given it! BTW they dont like flux.... the underside of mine is a little worse for wear due to it! 

Thanks heaps, must do some ordering before Christmas, with two weeks off, I'll need things to do between the partying. 

 

I've got a few of the Xuron cutters, what is a hold and fold thingy?

[Anglian]

Hold and fold is a device that allows you to bend brass precisely. I imagine Google will pop up an image and supplier.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Anglian