Wright writes.....

[Clive Mortimore]

No you weren't, you were 1978. 1974 was an 8F.

I blame my parents.....

[Tony Wright]

 

 

 

About eight hours' work has brought the DJH A2/3 to this stage. It'll end up being 60523 SUN CASTLE, obviously one I saw. 

 

The motor/gearbox is interesting. It's a Portescap hybrid. The gearbox was fine, but the motor died. So mate, Ray Chessum (thanks Ray), fitted another coreless motor, fixing it by a most ingenious solution, using 10 BA studding. It works very well (with the usual whine) but isn't that fast. 

 

One thing which construction of this kit has brought home to me is how relatively expensive things like this DJH Pacific are these days. Complete with a motor/gearbox (supplied by DJH) it's over £240.00. That doesn't include wheels, thus, at current prices that would take the total to not far off £300.00; maybe more by the time consumables, 'plates, paint and so on were purchased. Though there isn't an RTR A2/3, what's an 'equivalent' Bachmann A2 cost? Probably half the price of this kit?  Graeme King's conversion then makes very good sense. However, I much prefer metal bashing, but were I making this on commission, with a professional paint finish, it'd be into four figures to the customer. 

 

Could it be that the increasing price of kits, plus a reluctance by many not to even attempt to make them, as well as the quality of RTR equivalents will mean an even more rapid decline in that market? I hope not, but who knows? 

 

The crankpins are interesting. They're Markits' stainless steel ones, secured by a 1mm allen key (or is it allan key?). I had to bush the rods' bearings, but this'll never wear out, rod-wise. 

[glo41f]

"One thing which construction of this kit has brought home to me is how relatively expensive things like this DJH Pacific are these days. Complete with a motor/gearbox (supplied by DJH) it's over £240.00. That doesn't include wheels, thus, at current prices that would take the total to not far off £300.00; maybe more by the time consumables, 'plates, paint and so on were purchased. Though there isn't an RTR A2/3, what's an 'equivalent' Bachmann A2 cost? Probably half the price of this kit?  Graeme King's conversion then makes very good sense. However, I much prefer metal bashing, but were I making this on commission, with a professional paint finish, it'd be into four figures to the customer. "

 

There surely is the nub of the problem. With prices that high who (apart from our leader and his acolytes), is going to venture that sort of money on something which is not guaranteed to have an acceptable outcome being dependant upon the skill or lack of it of the purchaser? I feel that we are witnessing the end of an era which may in future be called the whitemetal era which was superseded by the etched era followed by the 3d/cad print era.

 

Martin Long

[petrovich]

A2 3 01.jpg

 

A2 3 02.jpg

 

A2 3 03.jpg

 

About eight hours' work has brought the DJH A2/3 to this stage. It'll end up being 60523 SUN CASTLE, obviously one I saw. 

 

The motor/gearbox is interesting. It's a Portescap hybrid. The gearbox was fine, but the motor died. So mate, Ray Chessum (thanks Ray), fitted another coreless motor, fixing it by a most ingenious solution, using 10 BA studding. It works very well (with the usual whine) but isn't that fast. 

 

One thing which construction of this kit has brought home to me is how relatively expensive things like this DJH Pacific are these days. Complete with a motor/gearbox (supplied by DJH) it's over £240.00. That doesn't include wheels, thus, at current prices that would take the total to not far off £300.00; maybe more by the time consumables, 'plates, paint and so on were purchased. Though there isn't an RTR A2/3, what's an 'equivalent' Bachmann A2 cost? Probably half the price of this kit?  Graeme King's conversion then makes very good sense. However, I much prefer metal bashing, but were I making this on commission, with a professional paint finish, it'd be into four figures to the customer. 

 

Could it be that the increasing price of kits, plus a reluctance by many not to even attempt to make them, as well as the quality of RTR equivalents will mean an even more rapid decline in that market? I hope not, but who knows? 

 

The crankpins are interesting. They're Markits' stainless steel ones, secured by a 1mm allen key (or is it allan key?). I had to bush the rods' bearings, but this'll never wear out, rod-wise. 

I always took it to be the Allen Manufacturing Company.

 

Regards

 

Peter

 

P.S.  Nice workmanship Tony.

[micklner]

I have bought all my A2 secondhand via eBay for A2/2 and A2/3 conversions. You are still looking at £150 ish for a new A2 , far too expensive to cut up for a conversion. You have to be patient, but they can be found at much cheaper prices than £150.

 

DJH current price is £176 for the A2/3 it could be cheaper than £240, with a High Level or similar gearbox and a Mitsumi motor fitted about £200 ish.

[Bucoops]

Could it be that the increasing price of kits, plus a reluctance by many not to even attempt to make them, as well as the quality of RTR equivalents will mean an even more rapid decline in that market? I hope not, but who knows?

 

I certainly hope not - just getting into things having not built a kit for 20 odd years. Mind you good job I'm not on an hourly rate for someone - you've got more done in 8 hours than I've got done in 8 months 

[Jol Wilkinson]

Comparing the price of one kit for which there is a RTR equivalent isn't a sound basis for divining the future of kit building. Those who want to create a model railway that isn't constrained by what comes out of a Chinese factory will still build from kits.

 

Another factor is how much your overall spend is. I am happy with relatively few models (currently eleven locos, two nearly finished and seven unstarted kits), probably far fewer and costing much less than most people's RTR collection. My enjoyment comes from building models, not simply buying and owning them.

 

If anything is damaging interest in building models from kits it is the naysayers who claim it is too difficult, they can't solder, can't paint, etc. often without trying and, if failing first time, then giving up. Even the idea of painting a 3D printed model or slightly modifying a RTR model is offputting for some. That is much more prevalent on RMweb than the other modelling forums I frequent.

 

Edited for typos, I should know better than using a tablet for looking at RMweb.

Edited January 11, 2018 by Jol Wilkinson

[it's-er]

Edited for typos, I should know better than using a tablet for looking at RMweb.

I don't see why you shouldn't use a tablet for looking at RMweb. I always access it with my iPad, and don't feel I lose out. They are great for magnifying photos when you want to see more detail.

 

John Storey

[Jol Wilkinson]

I don't see why you shouldn't use a tablet for looking at RMweb. I always access it with my iPad, and don't feel I lose out. They are great for magnifying photos when you want to see more detail.

 

John Storey

 

John,

 

the difficulty is typing on the b' thing. I should stick to the pc with  its proper keyboard..

 

Jol

[Tony Wright]

I have bought all my A2 secondhand via eBay for A2/2 and A2/3 conversions. You are still looking at £150 ish for a new A2 , far too expensive to cut up for a conversion. You have to be patient, but they can be found at much cheaper prices than £150.

 

DJH current price is £176 for the A2/3 it could be cheaper than £240, with a High Level or similar gearbox and a Mitsumi motor fitted about £200 ish.

Thanks Mick,

 

I think what bumps up the price is the made-up DJH gearbox. I bought one for this A2/3, but used the Portescap instead. Guess what? During test-running this evening, the whining drove me nuts, so, after taking the pictures, I've now fitted the DJH motor/gearbox combo. The aural difference is astonishing. It's also far faster, and, in that regard, more suited to an A2/3. 

 

In fairness, the Portescap whine is most apparent when going fast (which happens frequently on LB). Not that this one is fast (but others I've used are), so I'll install it in the next freight loco I build. It'll be quieter, and its slow speed won't be a problem. 

Edited January 11, 2018 by Tony Wright

[Tony Wright]

Comparing the price of one kit for which there is a RTR equivalent isn't a sound basis for divining the future of kit building. Those who want to create a model railway that isn't constrained by what comes out of a Chinese factory will still build from kits.

 

Another factor is how much your overall spend is. I am happy with relatively few models (currently eleven locos, two nearly finished and seven unstarted kits), probably far fewer and costing much less than most people's RTR collection. My enjoyment comes from building models, not simply buying and owning them.

 

If anything is damaging interest in building models from kits it is the naysayers who claim it is too difficult, they can't solder, can't paint, etc. often without trying and, if failing first time, then giving up. Even the idea of painting a 3D printed model or slightly modifying a RTR model is offputting for some. That is much more prevalent on RMweb than the other modelling forums I frequent.

 

Edited for typos, I should know better than using a tablet for looking at RMweb.

Good evening Jol,

 

I'm puzzled why you think comparing the price of a kit (even just one) with an RTR equivalent is unsound. I don't know whether I'm even attempting to divine the future of kit-building, but every kit-manufacturer I speak to (perhaps not in John's case) tells me that when an RTR loco appears (these days, decent ones), they can wave farewell to kit sales for that loco. The fact remains that something approaching £300.00 now (admittedly for a big 4mm loco kit) is a substantial amount, especially when the nearest RTR equivalent is half that price. Then, if one fails in building it, then the price of that failure is very high indeed. Might that not put some off from even trying? 

 

I do agree with everything else in your post, though. I've said innumerable times that there is a world of difference between making something and just owning something. The former is both - one makes it and owns it at the same time. The latter is half of that, either because someone else has made it for you (the generic 'you') or it's just out-of-a-box. By the way, I include those who personally modify/improve/weather RTR items as being in the 'making something' category. 

 

As to personal spending, I'm lucky in that what I do is effectively self-financing. I had three books published last year, and I've been commissioned to write at least two more this year. Then, there are the numerous articles/photographs in the modelling mags, plus my production of pictures for kit-manufacturers. Add (or subtract?) on to that, the fact that most of LB has been achieved through trading skills. Though there's an obvious cost, it doesn't usually include (highly-skilled) labour prices. 

 

As for those who just put up obstacles to prevent them making things, well, it's their money and if they derive pleasure from what they buy/commission, then nobody has a right to deny them that (not that I'm suggesting you're doing that). They have the pleasure of their possessions, not their creations. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

Edited January 11, 2018 by Tony Wright

[Barry Ten]

Related to the cost of kits, I wonder what the driving factor is behind the prices? A DJH Duchess kit is now 176 pounds, for just the castings and etched parts. That seems to me to be a not inconsiderable amount of money for a few hundred grams of white metal (less than a kilogram, surely?) and a few bits of brass, allowing for packaging and instructions. Is it the cost of raw materials, the fabrication, or a combination thereof?

 

To put things into perspective, that's not far off double what you'd pay for the most expensive kits in the Airfix range, but of course with loco kits it's only the start of the expense sheet. In a way I don't mind paying for the motor/gearbox bits because some careful assembly has been done for me, and they are very reliable, but it does make my eyes pop when just the castings and etchings are now well over 100 pounds even for a small loco, and pushing toward 200 in the larger examples.

 

Al

[Tony Wright]

Related to the cost of kits, I wonder what the driving factor is behind the prices? A DJH Duchess kit is now 176 pounds, for just the castings and etched parts. That seems to me to be a not inconsiderable amount of money for a few hundred grams of white metal (less than a kilogram, surely?) and a few bits of brass, allowing for packaging and instructions. Is it the cost of raw materials, the fabrication, or a combination thereof?

 

To put things into perspective, that's not far off double what you'd pay for the most expensive kits in the Airfix range, but of course with loco kits it's only the start of the expense sheet. In a way I don't mind paying for the motor/gearbox bits because some careful assembly has been done for me, and they are very reliable, but it does make my eyes pop when just the castings and etchings are now well over 100 pounds even for a small loco, and pushing toward 200 in the larger examples.

 

Al

Al,

 

Most interesting observations. 

 

I think the cost is down to a combination of all the things you suggest. 

 

I'm not a kit-manufacturer, though  have worked closely with several of them in the production of new kits. This has either been (in a modest way) in research and development, test-building, writing instructions, taking step-by-step pictures and photographing the finished models for catalogues. In DJH's case, some of their display models have been built by me. This is mainly in 4mm, but I've also dabbled in O as well. I can only speak personally, but I've effectively been 'paid' in kits or for subsequent magazine articles. This has suited me, but if a 'professional' third party had been brought in to complete the tasks mentioned, then his or her work has to be paid for, and recovered in the kit costs. 

 

Of course, once the kit is on sale and, particularly, after some time, those initial costs will (one hopes) have long been recovered. However, moulds wear in time and have to be replaced, so it's not all 'just take in the money'. 

 

I don't think it'll be long before the £200.00 price is the norm for big loco kits in 4mm. In fairness, it might not be too long (in my opinion) before £175.00-£200.00 will be the asking price for a large RTR steam-outline loco in OO. Of course, the latter is complete. A made-up gearbox from DJH is probably £60.00 (perhaps more) and the cost of a complete set of decent wheels (Markits) is quite eye-watering in many ways. I have to say (as you allude to) I don't mind paying a 'high' price for high-quality mechanical products. Though many 'professionally-built' locos run no further (if at all) than over a yard of (dead straight) Peco track in a glass case, a finished loco kit is useless to me unless it runs on a layout, does what its prototype did in scale, is considerably superior in performance than equivalent out-of-the-box items and is entirely reliable. A Jol has mentioned, those who do (and can) make/modify their model railway stuff (like yourself), usually derive more pleasure from their activities than those who are non-self-reliant in that respect - I needed to remind myself of that fact when the grubscrew in the DJH gearwheel pinged into oblivion yesterday! Fortunately, I have spares. 

 

In my view, the problem with loco kits (even good ones) has always been 'aspiration over ability'. I'm reliably informed that over 90% of loco kits are never finished satisfactorily. They lie abandoned in dusty boxes, a testament to their builders' 'inabilities'. As kit prices (inevitably) rise, so does that cost of failure, and we have an increasing-in-diameter vicious circle.

 

I don't know what it is about human nature but some folk never look at themselves as being the problem. I'll explain (I might have mentioned this before); a few years ago I was a tutor at a model railway weekend, where I guy had brought a loco he was building (quite small, and in OO). He was berating the kit, shouting about its being cr@p and being extremely offensive about the manufacturer (a friend of mine). I examined the loco, and what a mess. When I asked him had he checked at every stage - chassis, bearings, motor/gearbox, wheels, rods - for smooth-running, he just stated that he'd put it all together before installing the pick-ups. It was locked-up solid. Not content with that level of incompetence, he'd then taken that considerable 'un-skill' set forward to the body. Solder-manufacturers must have loved him! A friend said he'd only built a couple of kits before, so hadn't he done well? I decline to comment! Clearly, kit-building is not for all.

 

My advice to everyone (for what it's worth) is buy whatever you might think you need in the way of future loco kits, right now. That goes for motors/gearboxes/wheels/fittings as well.  

[DougN]

Tony, I have to argue with the above as I think it has been said before that only "10% of locos are even attempted with 90% sitting unbuilt in the one day cupboard!" Until passed on and on. I had heard the above quote been attributed to Martin Finney!

 

Many years ago... basically 4 years ago I showed my completed Q6 to Dave Bradwell who mentioned that it was the only one that he'd seen built by some one other than himself!

 

Tony, as you have mentioned and a lot of others have mentioned that unbuilt kits can still be had for reasonable money. So I think he number of people capable of building kits is a minority of a minority! This I tend to think is because there is a lack or skill acquisition in the hobby.. the same could be said for the great majority of trades now hence we see a plumber charging big pounds to turn up and fix your plumbing. Or another way to put it the number of people who can't put together a IKEA book shelf!

[Jol Wilkinson]

Tony,

 

the kit/RTR comparison you made is unsound as that it doesn't represent the broader picture, which was what I was trying to illustrate. You are right that a the introduction of a RTR model will significantly damage sales of a kit, but those that build in the two wider 4mm gauges may still build the kit version as it isn't always possible to convert the RTR product. Other, like you, still enjoy creating their own, individual and unique, models. As with any business in this day and age, "new" products are needed to keep sales/turnover going, the RTR manufacturers are clear proof of that. If a kit manufacturer allows their range to stagnate, then sales will steadily decline.

 

Why start on building a big, complex, 4mm loco when you have little or no experience (the usual trap for beginners)?. Something smaller, more readily built and less expensive should be the starting point. It is also important to start with something that can be easily built and finished, rather that some cheap kit out of someones' vintage collection on ebay, usually featuring old technology chassis, motors, etc. Not everyone wants large ECML layouts, so the products from the likes of Dave Ellis at SEF offer a realistic way in to creating your own, individual and unique model railway.

 

As for finance, you've paid for your models through working, although you may not consider writing books is employment. My point was that, within the context of someone's overall spend on model railways, some of us probably get as much or more enjoyment from a few, albeit more individually expensive, kits than many of those who chase the model railway dragon of building a larger collection of RTR products. Less can be more.

 

Perhaps you are correct in that many people don't have the comment sense to build models properly (my interpretation). I still grasp the belief that with some thought, guidance and mentoring, it is possible to do things you think are beyond your capabilities. Of course you may end up not enjoying it, but that is another matter. 

 

In all this, I think what depresses me is that, at a time when we probably have the best choice of kits for locos, rolling stock, railway infrastructure, etc. available, the hobby is seemingly moving into a less creative era. Model railways are becoming  less the product of the modellers imagination and more the result of what the large manufacturers choose to make.

 

Jol

[Atso]

I would venture a guess that some of the main driving factors behind the price of kits are:

 

- What are the expected sale volumes?

- Is the selling price related proportionally to sales achieved?

- How will/has the RTR market impact on sales?

- Are there any rents/rates to pay (i.e. commercial premises)?

- Is the manufacturing done in-house or via a third party?

- If manufactured in-house what is the maximum manufacturing capacity available?

- How many people are involved with/employed by the business?

- What is their time worth?

 

Just concentrating on wages, if there were three people involved with a business and each wanted to earn £20k (national average wage is c. £27k), then that accounts for £60k of additional costs on its own. Put another way, if such a company sold 1,000 locomotive kits in a year then, on average, £60 of the selling price per kit would be accounted for by wages. Do DJH or similar companies sell a thousand kits per kit (or indeed employ three people)?

 

Just some thoughts on this.

Edited January 12, 2018 by Atso

[Jol Wilkinson]

Tony, I have to argue with the above as I think it has been said before that only "10% of locos are even attempted with 90% sitting unbuilt in the one day cupboard!" Until passed on and on. I had heard the above quote been attributed to Martin Finney!

 

Many years ago... basically 4 years ago I showed my completed Q6 to Dave Bradwell who mentioned that it was the only one that he'd seen built by some one other than himself!

 

Tony, as you have mentioned and a lot of others have mentioned that unbuilt kits can still be had for reasonable money. So I think he number of people capable of building kits is a minority of a minority! This I tend to think is because there is a lack or skill acquisition in the hobby.. the same could be said for the great majority of trades now hence we see a plumber charging big pounds to turn up and fix your plumbing. Or another way to put it the number of people who can't put together a IKEA book shelf!

Doug,

 

was MF right,? Clearly there was more kudos to be gained by seen walking around a show clutching MF green kit boxes (or Malcolm Mitchell's) so presumably they sold well. However, few appear on the Bring and Buy stands at Scaleforum, Expoem and the likes. Are they being kept as family heirlooms? When Brassmasters took over the range and started to reintroduce them, there was apparently no shortage of buyers.

 

Perhaps it is because the people that bought them tend not to display their models and GWR/LSWR layouts on RMweb (unlike the ECML enthusiasts). I know several people who have Finney, Mitchell and, Bradwell kits  in the cupboard, having pre-empted Tony's advice and got them while they were still hot. They have every intention of building them, but whether anno domini is on their side remains to be seen.

 

Jol

[Compound2632]

For a RTR manufacturer, 500 is, we're led to believe, a small number - which may well sell out, with at a guess half in actual layout use.

For a kit manufacturer, 50 might well be a large batch, with maybe half sold on release and around 10% actually built. 

The scale and type of costs the two manufacturers have to meet are quite different but nevertheless it's not all that surprising that a kit will work out more expensive.

But, the RTR and kit models will provide the customer with different sorts of satisfaction - or dissatisfaction, as we're apt to read on here.

[DougN]

Well Jol, you know I have a select few of Martin Finney's products here in a draw. I however have started the V2 and the tender of an A4. Due to my New Years resolution of finishing things I have started the locos are down the list as the D&S coaches are well a head! Let alone a Bradwell J26 which has been worked on at exhibitions on and off for a large number of years! Yes my problem is not finishing things or starting something else to keep the interest up! But I think I still have more life ahead of me than behind!

[Clearwater]

I must admit that I’m falling into the hoarder category. As is debated endlessly elsewhere on this site, there’s no guarantee that when you want/have the time to build something that it will still be available. Therefore, if funds allow and you have a long term vision on what you want to model, it makes sense to acquire kits as and when you see them. I think David Geen was surprised how much he sold at Scaleforum. I brought from him as he produces kits not readily available elsewhere and with his impending retirement, I don’t want to be stuck thinking if only I’d brought that when I had the opportunity. Equally, there are items that I know are out of production but if I see them on second hand stallls or on eBay or physical auctions, I’ll look to buy (if anyone has/sees a Jackson Evans 39xx, I’m in the market for one!).

 

I don’t think I’m alone in the under 50 category in thinking like this. The key is vision on what you want. As Tony has shown with Stoke/LB and Gilbert with PN, the key to developing a large prototype layout is to plan your purchases to fit with your eventual vision. That allows you to build up stock over a number of years to reach where you eventually want to get to. Purchasing, Be it kits or rtr, when available is a sensible strategy towards that vision.

 

David

[glo41f]

"In my view, the problem with loco kits (even good ones) has always been 'aspiration over ability'. I'm reliably informed that over 90% of loco kits are never finished satisfactorily. They lie abandoned in dusty boxes, a testament to their builders' 'inabilities'. As kit prices (inevitably) rise, so does that cost of failure, and we have an increasing-in-diameter vicious circle."

 

There in a nutshell is the dilemma we have. I have witnessed this issue many times in my association with modelmaking and not only with railways bit also with aircraft and maritime modelling. The problem with railways is that the money figures tend to be higher.  It would be a brave person to tell any fellow modeller that in your opinion his abilities are not up to the standard that this kit demands. I would suggest that even the most tactful of us would find that difficult. Superimposed on this is the fact that basic skills are not taught in schools these days and, though I and others did not have schooling in woodwork or metalwork, we learned things from fathers and other relatives. These days these sources are probably clueless too. As a "policy" I hope to be able to get my small grandson equipped to be confident with tools and hopefully make things but he may be more interested in his electronic gizmos like his older cousin. 

 

I aspire to a fully signalled scenic section of the GE main line. This is not matched by my ability!

 

Martin Long

[Jol Wilkinson]

Kit production, or more accurately batch, volumes can be relatively small. Once the tooling is produced etches can be ordered one sheet at a time as part of a wider order, w/m castings can be produced in small volumes, which also applies to lost wax castings. An initial batch for a new etched kit might be only ten or a dozen kits, which can be followed up with smaller quantities as demand settles down. So Atso's commercial assessment doesn't really hold for the owner /driver kit manufacturer for these reasons. 

 

This ability to manufacture "on demand" in small quantities is also different from RTR, although they have the benefit of a supply chain that moves the manufactured product to an intermediary (the reseller) which generates cashflow

 

There is no way to tell how often a kit will sell, after the initial "rush". Compared to RTR, sales are very small. The RTR manufacturers also have the benefits of (by comparison) huge media exposure, including here on RMweb with much of it generated by the customer base.

[Barry Ten]

Talking of the 90% rule, I recently obtained a second-hand locomotive which looked (from the photos) to be very well put together. I took that as a sign that it would probably be good from a mechanical standpoint - after all, I wouldn't bother finishing and lining a model unless I'd got the running qualities sorted. I couldn't have been more wrong!

 

The loco (a very old Wills King, with a cast chassis block) barely twitched when I put it on the track; I think I coaxed about a quarter of a wheel rotation out of it before it went totally dead. The front bogie had suffered some damage in transit so I put the whole lot back in the box until I was feeling in the mood for some tinkering. To be fair, I then called the dealer and suggested that, since the model was both damaged and dead upon arrival, I'd appreciate a small refund. The dealer very kindly suggested twice what I'd proposed and the money was in my account within half an hour.

 

Anyway, I took the beast apart this week, and what a shambles! After releasing the motor, the chassis still had a very stiff tight spot, so I unsoldered the connecting rods, and the tight spot was still there. Even as a plain 0-6-0, it was useless. I them removed the coupling cods and eased the tolerances until the running was sweet. I put the connecting rods back on and the running was still good (under finger power). However, it immediately seized as soon as the chassis was mated with the body. To my amazement, the entire body/chassis mounting arrangement was out by at least 2mm, with the wheels pushed so far back that they were grinding against the splashers. No wonder it hadn't run! Allowing for both the tight spot, and this problem, I can't believe this model ever turned a wheel in service.  No wonder the bodywork was in good condition - it had probably been in a box since the day it was built. The pickups were also atrocious, and there was so little clearance at the bogie end that the tiniest rail deflection would cause a dead short. Anyway, I got the chassis sitting correctly under the body, added new pickups, eased the bogie clearance, and got it running reasonably well, but at the moment the gear mesh is very rough and needs attention. I'll spend a few more days on it, but not too many because there'll come a point where I'd be better off subsituting a Comet chassis and newer motor/gearbox, rather than trying to get this old mechanism to work well. It will run, though!

 

Al

[Barry Ten]

Just as a follow up, does Tony (or any of other builders) have a remedy for undoing tight Romford retaining nuts?

[cctransuk]

Just as a follow up, does Tony (or any of other builders) have a remedy for undoing tight Romford retaining nuts?

 

I have never had a tight nut that did not succumb to the Romford screwdriver. It is, though, essential to grip the wheel so that it cannot rotate.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.