Wright writes.....

[RBAGE]

Are they not?

 

I phone up Mark Arscott regularly and order wheels from him. 

 

They arrive within a fortnight. 

That is probably the only source for the wheels. There are other outlets but only limited range.

 

Being from Durham, whenever I call, I have to go through the usual Pink Panther routine. Durham, Durham.........Durham, Durham, Durham, Durham, Durham.

 

He is entertaining.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Are they not?

 

I phone up Mark Arscott regularly and order wheels from him. 

 

They arrive within a fortnight.

 

Perhaps he may consider you a VIP Tony, deserving of special treatment. I know of others who have not had the same good fortune.

[Chuffer Davies]

Perhaps he may consider you a VIP Tony, deserving of special treatment. I know of others who have not had the same good fortune.

Hi Jol,

Whilst I must admit that Mark’s phone manner is an acquired taste, ignoring get that for a moment I have to agree with Tony that as long as the product you are after is in stock then experience suggests that the goods will be delivered within a couple of weeks. I received a set of wheels only today ordered the week before last. Mark would not know me from Adam and so I will not have had special treatment.

 

Frank

[Clearwater]

Are they not?

 

I phone up Mark Arscott regularly and order wheels from him. 

 

They arrive within a fortnight.

 

Once I'd spoken to him, I've found subsequent orders via email arrive pretty promptly.

 

David

[RThompson]

You've read my mind, Jol,

 

I honestly cannot see the point, especially in OO and EM, in faffing around with non-concentric, plastic-centred wheels, which have to be jig or eye-quartered, which then have to be pinned (for true-security, to prevent the wheels subsequently moving on the axles), yet still with the risk of the tyres coming off. 

 

The above might sound a bit prejudiced, but I have tried friction-fit wheels with no real success. If I put a big engine I've made on to a big train, where it might well slip a little (entirely prototypically) on starting, the last thing I want to see is the loco nodding along, or the wheels rotating on their axles, bending the rods, or tyres falling off. It has happened, hence my comments, but never with Romford/Markits wheels. 

 

In your chosen gauge, then friction-fit wheels would appear to be the only drivers to use.

 

Markits does do P4 axles now! In fact I saw a P4 loco with Romford wheels built a long time ago as I was talking to the owner and he extended the axles with washers if I remember correctly,

[St Enodoc]

....and at the same price (relative to other items) that was typical for them 20 years ago!

But you wouldn't want the same quality (eccentricity, square holes too small) or the limited range of diameters/spokes etc. though.

[Bucoops]

Are they not?

 

I phone up Mark Arscott regularly and order wheels from him. 

 

They arrive within a fortnight. 

 

I started trying to order some A1/A3 wheels (and other bits) in about September last year. After a couple of answered calls and several unanswered, and several unanswered emails I eventually received them a week or so ago (about a fortnight after finally getting to talk to Mark properly). I even tried ordering through a few suppliers of Markits parts who all said they struggle to get anything. Mark (and a couple of others) did say that there are supply issues with some of the die cast wheel centres - J50 is an example. Everything I received was top quality, even if the quantities weren't quite right. 

 

Like others have said, Mark has an interesting phone manner ("Hello, is that Markits?" "Unfortunately"!) which I don't mind. I'd rather a bit of mildly sarcastic grumpiness over gushing "How can we help you?" you get from some places. Makes life more interesting. 

[Barry O]

Tony
Your views of alternative "plastic centred friction fit" wheels would be true 20 years ago...but is not right today. The newer wHEELS are flat and the tyres generally stay in place unless rough handled.

I can quarter Gibson wheels (which stay put without pinning them) while I still get the odd Romford wheelnut going AWOL. This causes a lot of problems.
Don't use loctite on the wheelnut as they are a s0d to remove if you need to change a gearbox when updating a loco.

Baz

 

edited to re spell the spull chicker carp!

Edited March 15, 2018 by Barry O

[polybear]

How about supplies via SE Finecast?

[Tony Wright]

Tony

Your views of alternative "plastic centred friction fit" wheels would be true 20 years ago...but is not right today. The newer wHEELS are flat and the tyres generally stay in place unless rough handled.

 

I can quarter Gibson wheels (which stay put without pinning them) while I still get the odd Romford wheelnut going AWOL. This causes a lot of problems.

Don't use lost its on the wheelnut as they are a s0d to remove if you need to change a gearbox when updating a loco.

 

Baz

Good morning Baz,

 

Do you mean the modern friction-fit wheels have flat tyres?!

 

And it's certainly not 20 years ago since I rejected a set of such drivers - more like two. I know the wheels have improved, but I still don't think they're as good as Markits for concentricity, durability, ease of use and their ability to be removed from their axles endless times without loss of function. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

Perhaps he may consider you a VIP Tony, deserving of special treatment. I know of others who have not had the same good fortune.

The minute I believe I'd be singled out for preferential treatment by a manufacturer, I'd adopt a false name, especially when ordering parts. 

 

Of course I have a close relationship with kit manufacturers; as you know, I test build and write kit instructions for DJH, I'm building the first 'independent' J6 right now, I've built several of LRM kits for review (among many others) and I'm currently advising two RTR manufacturers.

 

I've known Mark Arscott for years, and knowing him well, I can tell you he's had some pretty strident things to tell me when I've 'mucked up' a report on his products. I respect his integrity entirely. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

[Enterprisingwestern]

Don't use lost its on the wheelnut as they are a s0d to remove if you need to change a gearbox when updating a loco.

 

 

Love your spellchecker Baz!

 

Mike.

[Tony Wright]

Markits does do P4 axles now! In fact I saw a P4 loco with Romford wheels built a long time ago as I was talking to the owner and he extended the axles with washers if I remember correctly,

It's an interesting point, and one which should be broadcast more.

 

I know of a few P4 modellers who use Markits P4 axles and wheels, not for the finished loco, but because of the Markits system of being able to put the wheels on the axles and take them off again, innumerable times, they're able to set their frames up and keep on trying the wheels on and off until they're satisfied. Then, the other, friction-fit wheels are put on. That's the problem with the latter type of driver. On/off, on/off, then they're not much good. 

 

Mark tells me he sells several of his wheels/axles to P4 modellers, but they rarely mention it. They don't want to be pursued! 

[t-b-g]

There is no doubt that Markits wheels score in terms of speed of assembly, ease of taking apart and quartering. 

 

Having said that, plenty of modellers, including myself, have built locos that run perfectly well on Gibson wheels. That includes a good number on Roy Jackson's "Retford". He doesn't seem to suffer with loose tyres or wheels slipping.

 

Perhaps Gibson wheels take a little more time and effort to get them set up just right but once done, they do score over Markits in appearance.

 

As for quality issues, I have had them from both manufacturers from time to time. I have had Markits with poorly machined axle ends, tyres coming loose (on insulated wheels) and wheel wobble, probably down to poorly cast square holes in the wheels centre. I have also had their brass crankpins shear off, possibly because the brass is softer than the coupling rods, which eventually cause wear on the pin.

[Lecorbusier]

For me Gibson wheels look better. I also prefer the look of the crankpin set up. There's no denying though that Markits are easier to set up and more robust. I decided to try Gibson before moving to P4 primarily on the strength of Tony's Right track video where I preferred the look on the 4f over the other two locos.

 

I understand there can be issues using the P4 axles with Markits wheels. I think you might have to use slightly different track standards than the normal P4 gauges to allow them to work ... or adjust the wheels slightly using a lathe .... but don't quote me, I could be wrong. 

Edited March 15, 2018 by Lecorbusier

[Jol Wilkinson]

No quotes but a reply to several responses.

 

Firstly, one Small Supplier I know well has regularly suffered delayed deliveries from Markits over years, for products other than the wheels and where Mark Arscott doesn't rely on an outside supplier himself (I understood that the die cast wheel centres were produced elsewhere, although that may no longer be correct). 

 

Markits do P4 axles, but not P4 wheels. I have seen one eight coupled loco where the builder "melted" one of the plastic centred wheels supplied with the kit and replaced it with a Markits axle and flangeless wheels on one of the centre axles (as per the prototype). The difference is very obvious, not least in the width of the wheel/tyre.. Markits P4 wheels and axles have been talked about on the Scalefour Society Forum, where their use as a setting up tool is favoured by some. Markits wheels, being wider, won't work with P4 generally as they would foul splashers, valve gear, etc. even if the tyre/flange profile will run through P4 point flange ways.

 

Although my experience of Romford wheels. as they were originally known. goes back quite a few years, and ceased when I moved to P4, I was never that satisfied with them and getting them to run without some axial "wobble" wasn't always easy. The range doesn't cover many of pre-group models I build, so even with 00 or EM models  I would still have to look elsewhere for wheels. So I have developed ways around their claimed disadvantages (although I have never had a loco driving wheel tyre move on the wheel centre, just the very occasional C&W wheel tyre). as have many model builders.

 

Different experiences. different opinions.

 

Jol

[glo41f]

I can recall that one "expert" in the 60's advocated some strong action with wobbly Romford wheels. He rotated them until the wobbly bit was at the top and then clouted them with a hammer. I have to say his models always ran well but I always thought it was a bit drastic. We used to sort through the wheels at the local shop to select the best but then the owner did not returm the rejects to Romford so as time went by they were all suspect.  They were very generic but the best we could get at the time.

 

Martin Long

Edited March 15, 2018 by glo41f

[Barry O]

Good morning Baz,

 

Do you mean the modern friction-fit wheels have flat tyres?!

 

And it's certainly not 20 years ago since I rejected a set of such drivers - more like two. I know the wheels have improved, but I still don't think they're as good as Markits for concentricity, durability, ease of use and their ability to be removed from their axles endless times without loss of function. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Good afternoon Tony

No I mean that they are not bowed, dished or bent in any way ..ie flat across the wheel face/tyres. 

 

I have recent experience of problems with Romford/Markit not being exactly the same diameter across the tyres. Something I have not had from Gibson wheels since Colin took over. 

 

Baz

[Tony Wright]

Most interesting points about wheels; many thanks.

 

As Jol has mentioned, different experiences, different opinions. 

 

Of course, I can only cite mine and (having built in excess of 480 locos - at least) over the last 40+ years, mainly in OO but occasionally in EM, I don't think there's a better driving wheel made for 'layout' locos than the Romford/Markits type. 

 

If I average the number of wheels out, say, six per loco, that's, according to my maths,  getting on for 3,000 drivers I've fitted, almost exclusively Romford Markits. I admit, I've had a few in the early days which were a little bit wobbly, but very few. I have never had to put a tyre back on a rim, never had to adjust the quartering and never had a wheel slip on its axle. Compare (contrast) that with the half dozen or so locos I've built with friction fit wheels, say 36 drivers. I've never had a set of six which exactly 'matched', having to pair up (hopefully), those which shared the same lack of concentricity. At least a third have shed their tyres (loads more on wagon wheels, but that's another story) and on at least half I've had to 'pin' the wheel to its axle to prevent it shifting under load; that is, drill a hole at 45 degrees through the boss into the axle, insert a brass pin and glue it in place. Roy Jackson has had to do this as well after wheels shifted on their axles under heavy load. 

 

So, it's my experience (and I'm only telling of mine now), that, in order to use friction-fit drivers which work to my satisfaction (and that's debatable), I've had to 'repair' them, modify them and fiddle about with them in a manner I've never had to do with Romford/Markits drivers.

 

In the olden days, I drilled and tapped the Romford wheels to take the crankpins (I could do that, having access to a comprehensive school metalwork shop), but I've been very twitchy about drilling into plastic wheels for the crankpins; not to mention, kn@ckering one wheel as I tried to solder the return crank for the valve gear on one side. Carelessness? Perhaps, but how else does one secure model motion? 

 

I could well be that I don't have the skill, aptitude or patience to fit friction-fit drivers (I have used Hamblings drivers in the past, and they were definitely friction-fitted - forever!). Such wheels have a better appearance, I'm told, but Markits now does bespoke wheels for many different types. 

 

My 'needs' might well be different from others', but why should I run the risk of opening up the taps of a Pacific on 14/15 bogies and find it's shed a tyre or mangled its rods as the wheels have moved on their axles?

 

My experiences, my opinions..................... If others have had nothing but satisfaction from friction-fit drivers, then I'm delighted. They're more skilled than I am. 

Edited March 15, 2018 by Tony Wright

[Tony Wright]

Good afternoon Tony

No I mean that they are not bowed, dished or bent in any way ..ie flat across the wheel face/tyres. 

 

I have recent experience of problems with Romford/Markit not being exactly the same diameter across the tyres. Something I have not had from Gibson wheels since Colin took over. 

 

Baz

Thanks Baz,

 

Regarding the situation of 'not being exactly the same diameter across the tyre', are you sure you've got a matched set? Time was when Markits wheels went up by a millimetre each time as the wheels got bigger. Not now, with bespoke wheels. The differences now can be a fraction of a millimetre. 

 

Just a thought. 

[Tony Wright]

For me Gibson wheels look better. I also prefer the look of the crankpin set up. There's no denying though that Markits are easier to set up and more robust. I decided to try Gibson before moving to P4 primarily on the strength of Tony's Right track video where I preferred the look on the 4f over the other two locos.

 

I understand there can be issues using the P4 axles with Markits wheels. I think you might have to use slightly different track standards than the normal P4 gauges to allow them to work ... or adjust the wheels slightly using a lathe .... but don't quote me, I could be wrong. 

Thanks Tim,

 

However, that self-same 4F doesn't run anywhere near as well (in terms of its nodding up and down in motion) as the Markits-shod 61XX and A2.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Bucoops]

I will add I would prefer to use Romford style wheels - it's why I persevered so much for my A1. The N7 I'm building came with Gibson wheels so trying those.

[Chamby]

As usual, a most-interesting set of comments. 

 

I don't think anyone need 'apologise' for using RTR products (if the impression has been given that they should do; which is wrong). I think one would be mad if the opportunity were not taken to 'exploit' what's available, personally modifying it, of course. I've mentioned before my 'reliance' on Bachmann's Mk.1s (I have over 90!), and, with time at a premium (the law of rapidly-diminishing returns as one gets older), time gained by not having to make 90 Comet Mk.1s has enabled me to make what Bachmann doesn't do and all the other cars which aren't available RTR; or, if they are, are too poor to use at source without major surgery. 

 

Speaking of making cars, would I have built (along with Tony Geary) so many Thompson types from kits had Bachmann's latest ones been available a quarter of a century ago? Perhaps not, and they are excellent. 

 

LNER Thompsons 01.jpg

 

LNER Thompsons 02.jpg

 

LNER Thompsons 03.jpg

 

Andy York kindly handed me this pair of Bachmann LNER Thompsons to see what could be done to them by way of 'improvement'. Not much, really, and this morning I chucked away the horrid couplings, made my (usual) own, added a gangway cover to the brake, fitted Modellers Mecca concertina gangways, sable-painted the roof grey (with Humbrol matt 67, which dried perfectly), stuck on a rear lamp, fitted the rear pipes and a dummy buckeye coupling and weathered the underframes and bogies. Is this hypocrisy on my part? I hope not, if only because what I've done is within the reach of anyone who calls themselves a railway modeller in my opinion. There is another motive as well; these cars in this condition are of no use to me on LB, but I hope they're of use to others. I'll be taking them to shows with me for the next month, but, after that, anyone wishing to buy them can have the pair for £100.00; the money going to Cancer Research. Please PM me if you want to to put your name on them. Of course, their value as a collectors' item has been destroyed, but who cares?

 

 

I received some of these lovely Thompson coaches by Bachmann today. I really like the finish on them.  Here they are, straight out of the box - its almost a shame to modify them!

 

 

 

Those crystal clear windows together with the nicely modelled interior seats means they will need to be populated, and I don't think that the scumbling effect would have extended to the pipework?  But these are easily done...

 

Phil

Edited March 15, 2018 by Chamby

[Lecorbusier]

Thanks Tim,

 

However, that self-same 4F doesn't run anywhere near as well (in terms of its nodding up and down in motion) as the Markits-shod 61XX and A2.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

..... But the wheels looked great    Why do you think it nods up and down?

[Enterprisingwestern]

Most interesting points about wheels; many thanks.

 

As Jol has mentioned, different experiences, different opinions. 

 

Of course, I can only cite mine and (having built in excess of 480 locos - at least) over the last 40+ years, mainly in OO but occasionally in EM, I don't think there's a better driving wheel made for 'layout' locos than the Romford/Markits type. 

 

If I average the number of wheels out, say, six per loco, that's, according to my maths,  getting on for 3,000 drivers I've fitted, almost exclusively Romford Markits. I admit, I've had a few in the early days which were a little bit wobbly, but very few. I have never had to put a tyre back on a rim, never had to adjust the quartering and never had a wheel slip on its axle. Compare (contrast) that with the half dozen or so locos I've built with friction fit wheels, say 36 drivers. I've never had a set of six which exactly 'matched', having to pair up (hopefully), those which shared the same lack of concentricity. At least a third have shed their tyres (loads more on wagon wheels, but that's another story) and on at least half I've had to 'pin' the wheel to its axle to prevent it shifting under load; that is, drill a hole at 45 degrees through the boss into the axle, insert a brass pin and glue it in place. Roy Jackson has had to do this as well after wheels shifted on their axles under heavy load. 

 

So, it's my experience (and I'm only telling of mine now), that, in order to use friction-fit drivers which work to my satisfaction (and that's debatable), I've had to 'repair' them, modify them and fiddle about with them in a manner I've never had to do with Romford/Markits drivers.

 

In the olden days, I drilled and tapped the Romford wheels to take the crankpins (I could do that, having access to a comprehensive school metalwork shop), but I've been very twitchy about drilling into plastic wheels for the crankpins; not to mention, kn@ckering one wheel as I tried to solder the return crank for the valve gear on one side. Carelessness? Perhaps, but how else does one secure model motion? 

 

I could well be that I don't have the skill, aptitude or patience to fit friction-fit drivers (I have used Hamblings drivers in the past, and they were definitely friction-fitted - forever!). Such wheels have a better appearance, I'm told, but Markits now does bespoke wheels for many different types. 

 

My 'needs' might well be different from others', but why should I run the risk of opening up the taps of a Pacific on 14/15 bogies and find it's shed a tyre or mangled its rods as the wheels have moved on their axles?

 

My experiences, my opinions..................... If others have had nothing but satisfaction from friction-fit drivers, then I'm delighted. They're more skilled than I am. 

 

Tut tut Tony!!!!

 

MIke.