Wright writes.....

[St Enodoc]

Hey, let's all lighten up a bit folks! It is Christmas after all.

[polybear]

46 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

It's hard to believe that the creators of these exquisite structures and the perpetrators of their destruction are the same species! 

 

I do believe the latter are a sub-species, commonly known as "pondlife".

 

50 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

I must also admit to being a rivet counter (a disparaging term), but as someone who has designed a number of kits over the years, it is something you have to do when creating a hopefully accurate model design.

 

Purely out of interest (and certainly not meant in any way to be offensive) when designing such a kit do you go by the Official Drawings for locations and numbers of rivets, or the actual loco as built?  I've seen it said (which of course may well be wrong) that those on the shop floor doing the actual building may add or subtract a rivet or two according to experience etc.

[t-b-g]

I am sure that the remark about rivet counting was made with tongue firmly in cheek.

 

In modelling vocabulary, a rivet counter isn't somebody who tries to get the right number of rivets on their models. That is just a good modeller doing their best to get something right.

 

It is somebody who takes pleasure in drawing attention to the failings of others to get such things correct on their models.

 

[D-A-T]

10 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

I am sure that the remark about rivet counting was made with tongue firmly in cheek.

 

In modelling vocabulary, a rivet counter isn't somebody who tries to get the right number of rivets on their models. That is just a good modeller doing their best to get something right.

 

It is somebody who takes pleasure in drawing attention to the failings of others to get such things correct on their models.

 

Exactly! Got it in one.

I like my models to be as representative as they can be and if they are missing a few rivets so what? As long as they don’t detracted from the overall picture of the model.

What I do take issue with, as Tony says, are those who criticise for criticisms sake or, worse still, to make them selves either appear or feel superior. 

Edited December 24, 2022 by D-A-T
Typo

[Jol Wilkinson]

3 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

Purely out of interest (and certainly not meant in any way to be offensive) when designing such a kit do you go by the Official Drawings for locations and numbers of rivets, or the actual loco as built?  I've seen it said (which of course may well be wrong) that those on the shop floor doing the actual building may add or subtract a rivet or two according to experience etc.

 

Official drawings to start with, backed up by suitable photos where possible (not always the case with some pre-group locos). None of those model I designed are preserved, so it wasn't possible to actually look at the real thing. Photos are critical as what the workshop created could differ from what the Drawing Office produced as I discovered with the NER G1, although not until the first kits had been produced. Fortunately there was a very easy fix.

 

Some railways, the LNWR being one, had "standards" for some parts including rivet spacing (2-3/4" for the LNWR). I expect that is because it made life easier for the workshop with jigs and also allowed the use of multi head drilling tools.

[Tony Wright]

I don't know how many rivets are present on this O Gauge Heljan RTR diesel............

 

 

If any.

 

It's certainly impressive!

 

 

[Tony Wright]

Regarding 'rivet-counting', over 20 years ago WMRC took Stoke Summit to Didcot 2000. 

 

After the public had departed, we were privileged to ride on the footplate of a couple of Panniers. One had prominent rivets on its footplate (not all in a dead straight line). Tongue in cheek, I asked how many rivets there should be? 'Dunno, we just drill holes where we think rivets should be'. I doubt if there were exactly the same number each side!

 

As Tony Gee states, the term is usually reserved for those who pick holes (no pun intended) in others' models. When asked if I may photograph the models they've made, it's hard to see their ar$es for dust!

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, polybear said:

 

I do believe the latter are a sub-species, commonly known as "pondlife".

 

 

Purely out of interest (and certainly not meant in any way to be offensive) when designing such a kit do you go by the Official Drawings for locations and numbers of rivets, or the actual loco as built?  I've seen it said (which of course may well be wrong) that those on the shop floor doing the actual building may add or subtract a rivet or two according to experience etc.

Good morning Brian,

 

"pondlife"? When we lived in Wolverhampton, we had a garden pond; from which, every spring/summer the most beautiful dragonflies would emerge as they cast off their nymph stage. 

 

May I suggest, in comparison with the destroyers of St. Merryn, you're being unfair on pondlife?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[t-b-g]

41 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

 

Official drawings to start with, backed up by suitable photos where possible (not always the case with some pre-group locos). None of those model I designed are preserved, so it wasn't possible to actually look at the real thing. Photos are critical as what the workshop created could differ from what the Drawing Office produced as I discovered with the NER G1, although not until the first kits had been produced. Fortunately there was a very easy fix.

 

Some railways, the LNWR being one, had "standards" for some parts including rivet spacing (2-3/4" for the LNWR). I expect that is because it made life easier for the workshop with jigs and also allowed the use of multi head drilling tools.

 

Even if they were preserved Jol, it might not help. After all these years, so many parts have been replaced, especially tanks and bunkers. The chances of the replacements having exactly the same rivets in the same places as the originals are slim.

 

I once visited Quainton Road and paid special attention to a Beattie 2-4-0T they had there. On the bunker/cab back (which looked original but much repaired over the years) there were three different sizes of rivet. Spacings were all over the place. Rows of rivets, presumably for a patch repair on the inside, started and finished in really odd places and the rows were neither straight nor parallel!

 

I came away thinking that if I modelled that, people would think it was a right bodged job but I would know it was right!

 

Edit to add that pretty much duplicates Tony W's post but at least it proves it wasn't an isolated example.

Edited December 24, 2022 by t-b-g
To add content

[dibateg]

How would you know how many rivets there are, unless you count them?

 

After making so many GW signals in 4mm for Mr Taylor, I'm at last on some 7mm LNER ones of my own - a rather cruel enlargement of work in progress.

 

Happy Xmas Everyone!

 

 

Regards

Tony

[Tom F]

Merry Christmas everyone. I only dip in here occasionally these days, but always like to keep up with what Tony is up to. 

 

No matter what you do over these next few days, make sure it involves some modelling time. 

 

 

[bbishop]

The most boring exhibition layout?  Heckmondwyke.  The men in white coats were operating to the prototypical timetable, a train every 15 minutes, timed by a stopwatch.

 

Then there was the Wolverhampton MRC layout ... that caused Tony W to build Stoke Summit.

 

Oh, and I worship in a big church.  Happy Christmas everyone, I'm spending mine cowering under the desk.  Bill

 

s!!  Happy Christmas.

[cctransuk]

1 minute ago, Tom F said:

Merry Christmas everyone. I only dip in here occasionally these days, but always like to keep up with what Tony is up to. 

 

No matter what you do over these next few days, make sure it involves some modelling time. 

 

 

 

Having just returned from a short visit to 'the land of my fathers', via the upper Wye Valley during a thaw, that image is so 'right' in every possible respect!

 

The apparent mist, stationary in the sheltered side of the valley, is a masterstroke!

 

John Isherwood.

[grahame]

As a break from fine-scale and rivet counting discussions, here's something that is decidedly neither - a couple of N/2mm BR Vanfit wagons built from NGS kits on Peco chassis providing an opportunity for a spot of weathering practice, something I need to improve being a bit of splodger, bodger and rush job merchant when it comes to the dirty arts:

 

 

Merry Christmas and a happy new year to all WW readers.

 

 

[cctransuk]

3 minutes ago, grahame said:

As a break from fine-scale and rivet counting discussions, here's something that is decidedly neither - a couple of N/2mm BR Vanfit wagons built from NGS kits on Peco chassis providing an opportunity for a spot of weathering practice, something I need to improve being a bit of splodger, bodger and rush job merchant when it comes to the dirty arts:

 

 

Merry Christmas and a happy new year to all WW readers.

 

 

 

Weathering - and a warning as to what follows, as it may offend the perfectionists!

 

Most of us will have a jar of some sort containing white spirit, in which we do the first paintbrush wash - assuming that we use enamels.

 

Over time, the spirit evaporates and the accumulation of muddy, dirty paint pigment gets thicker- at which point, most modellers will rinse out the contents and refill with fresh spirit.

 

Not me - add clean spirit to the muck, agitate, and spray it over the last six months' new wagon builds, to a greater or lesser extent. 😱

 

Crude, but if the liquid grot is runny enough, the effect of rain and motion-applied staining is remarkably effective.

 

When the wagon stock exceeds seven hundred, pragmatism rules!

 

John Isherwood.

 

 

 

 

[richard i]

To deflect from these Christmas debates, can I advise people to buckle up. We are about to enter the three worst days of television for TW so he will be avoiding it by producing several locos at a speed the rest of us can not comprehend. Sit back and let the step by step build photos entertain you. I for one will find it more interesting than the TV options.

merry Christmas to all. 
richard 

[sjp23480]

3 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Weathering - and a warning as to what follows, as it may offend the perfectionists!

 

Most of us will have a jar of some sort containing white spirit, in which we do the first paintbrush wash - assuming that we use enamels.

 

Over time, the spirit evaporates and the accumulation of muddy, dirty paint pigment gets thicker- at which point, most modellers will rinse out the contents and refill with fresh spirit.

 

Not me - add clean spirit to the muck, agitate, and spray it over the last six months' new wagon builds, to a greater or lesser extent. 😱

 

Crude, but if the liquid grot is runny enough, the effect of rain and motion-applied staining is remarkably effective.

 

When the wagon stock exceeds seven hundred, pragmatism rules!

 

John Isherwood.

 

 

 

 

John,

I think we need photographic evidence of your claim

 

Steve

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, richard i said:

To deflect from these Christmas debates, can I advise people to buckle up. We are about to enter the three worst days of television for TW so he will be avoiding it by producing several locos at a speed the rest of us can not comprehend. Sit back and let the step by step build photos entertain you. I for one will find it more interesting than the TV options.

merry Christmas to all. 
richard 

Good afternoon Richard,

 

Amazingly, other than some repairs to others' locos, I don't have one of mine on the workbench at the moment. 

 

I've been fitting the scores of train-heating/vacuum brake pipes to the LB rolling stock which doesn't (but should) have them.

 

It's my own coupling system, of course. It's been made easier by my electrician mate giving me a roll of 30Amp fusewire.

 

 

I've still got several vehicles to so equip, plus writing a few book reviews, so, Christmas is taken care of!

 

The locos you bought are with Tom.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[46444]

Good afternoon Tony,

 

It was a pleasure meeting up with you and Mo in April and spending time lineside at Little Bytham.

 

The everlasting memory other than your excellent hospitality for the day was an A4 at speed with a full train of 12-14 coaches. 

 

The sheer weight of one of your kit built A4's along with the brass coaches captured the full sound of the moving train as it headed north. The first time I have heard this on a model railway. 

 

Thanks as well for this excellent thread.

 

Seasons Greetings to you, Mo and all the contributers on here.

 

Mark 

[Tony Wright]

New books for Christmas reading.........

 

 

The last in the 8F series from Irwell.

 

 

And the next in the Jinty series.

 

 

Very-interesting, but evidence of sloppy proof-reading.

 

 

[cctransuk]

2 hours ago, sjp23480 said:

John,

I think we need photographic evidence of your claim

 

Steve

 

My word is my bond - but if you insist : -

 

 

Now I will be the first to concede that this illustration of the difference between untouched and 'weathered' stock actually shows that my technique produces a patina of age / usage, rather than the prototypical weathering of details.

 

 

Within a group of stock, it is easy to detect those vehicles that have been longest / hardest at work since their last work s visit.

 

 

Again, by varying the depth of application, and the subsequent application of Testor's Dullcote, the desired impression can be easily obtained when stock is viewed 'en masse'.

 

 

To my recollection, everyday 1960s freight and departmental stock was rarely clean, but the lettering could usually be read at this sort of distance.

 

 

With subtle, partial masking, it is possible to give the impression of a vehicle that has had just the lettering panel repainted.

 

 

A well-maintained loco requires a mere waft of muck, principally on the upper surfaces, to suggest that it worked hard since it left the care of the cleaners; (sorry about the dust).

 

Before the 'craftsmen' get their knickers in a twist - I know that this is not weathering. However, at age 73, and with a life-time's stock to process, it does perfectly well for me and would, I suspect, for most modellers with a sizeable stocklist.

 

John Isherwood.

[westerner]

Yet another 0 gauge interuption, the 12.30 arrival from Gloucester, one of three passenger trains a day.

 

[grahame]

6 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Weathering - and a warning as to what follows, as it may offend the perfectionists!

 

Most of us will have a jar of some sort containing white spirit, in which we do the first paintbrush wash - assuming that we use enamels.

 

Over time, the spirit evaporates and the accumulation of muddy, dirty paint pigment gets thicker- at which point, most modellers will rinse out the contents and refill with fresh spirit.

 

Not me - add clean spirit to the muck, agitate, and spray it over the last six months' new wagon builds, to a greater or lesser extent. 😱

 

Crude, but if the liquid grot is runny enough, the effect of rain and motion-applied staining is remarkably effective.

 

 

Thanks (and I note your pics in a later thread).

 

I'd also be interested to hear from others about their techniques and suggestions for weathering. There has certainly been some very nicely weathered examples posted on this thread.

 

I was quite pleased with this weathering effort of mine - a N/2mm NGS Boplate-E BPV kit, but I'm sure it could be better:

 

Edited December 24, 2022 by grahame

[micklner]

NIU ex NER 3d printed Snowplough in the  company of a modified Oxford J27.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[thegreenhowards]

6 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I don't know how many rivets are present on this O Gauge Heljan RTR diesel............

 

 

If any.

 

It's certainly impressive!

 

 

I do like the look of that. I have one on pre-order for my (under construction) O gauge West Highland line layout. Sorry to lower the tone with RTR purchases!

 

Andy