Wright writes.....

[Dunsignalling]

For me, the picture of the TT:120 Gresley A1/A3 just emphasises how good the general appearance of OO r-t-r has become nowadays.

 

Whilst I have no quarrel with anybody content with "worse" spending their hard-earned on it, considering the size advantage, that particular example of TT:120 looks no more refined than N.

 

John 

Edited January 20, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[davidw]

22 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

You could well be right David.

 

The subject of Pullmans' umber & cream livery has vexed modellers for generations. Which is right or not, whether it be RTR or kit-builds/modifications?

 

I offer the following images for (possible) discussion.........

 

For a start....

 

Hornby's 'Devon Belle' Observation Car.

 

And, at a considerably higher price.................

 

 

Golden Age's offering. 

 

Well over a quarter of a century ago, I made-up the 'Queen of Scots' using Comet sides on Hornby donors, fitted with MJT detailing parts and running on MJT bogies. Ian Rathbone painted the lot, and it was written-up in BRM. 

 

 

 

I still think this is the nearest to the correct Pullman colours. Mind you, it does take a top painter; something way beyond my capabilities.

 

I mixed-up the rake.........

 

 

To represent another Pullman service. 

 

Hornby's 12-wheelers............

 

 

 

Difficult to get hold of now, I believe.

 

 

As is this.

 

Even the later releases of the 1928 all-steel cars are all but impossible to get now........

 

 

I took this...........

 

 

And detailed/weathered it to make it look (I hope) more-natural, though I think the cream has a touch of 'green' in it. 

 

I used this, and others to make-up part of............

 

 

'The Yorkshire Pullman'.....

 

 

There is a difference in the colours between these and.............

 

 

Some of the other cars in the rake; in this case one of my Ian Rathbone-painted modified ones and an original all-steel Hornby Pullman (modified, and running on the correct bogies). 

 

The shot below makes an interesting comparison.....

 

 

From top to bottom...

 

A Hornby/comet/MJT/Wright/Rathbone one.

A modified Hornby original car.

A later Hornby car.

And what was the latest Hornby Pullman. 

 

No two exactly the same..........

 

But, the biggest difference in Pullman colours is between Hornby's rendition and Bachmann's of umber/cream..................

 

 

 

Even after weathering...........

 

Which is nearer? I'm not sure.

 

When Dave Lewis introduced the Mk.1 cars to his range, his colours matched those of Hornby much more-closely........

 

 

As seen in this view of the Down 'Master 'Cutler' on Stoke. 

 

Ian Rathbone painted the middle car (another of my mods) in colours to match - different from what he'd done for me before.

 

Little Bytham's 'Master Cutler' is made-up from modified (earlier) Hornby cars............

 

 

Which suit quite well. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Personally I think that the Bachmann colours are better than Hornby. I've three Pullman takes. Two Bachmann one Hornby. I've resisted attempting repaint to match the Bachmann cars. As rather than an incongruous (though prototypical) maroon BG I'd like a 1928 brake. 

 

[Keith Turbutt]

Re the different shades of umber between Hornby's older Pullmans and Backmann Mk1 Pullmans a 'quick fix' - for a 'layout' coach is to use self adhesive overlays from Precision Labels -see these links:-

 

http://www.precisionlabels.com/sl20.html

 

http://www.precisionlabels.com/sl6.html

 

The umber overlays can be ordered for either the Hornby Pullmans to match the Bachmann Mk1s or visa versa depending on which shade  you believe to be more correct. For my Master Cutler I chose to buy overlays for the Backmann Mk1s to match the Hornby shade of umber.  The order form allows you to request the coach names or numbers which you require.

 

There is also information about the Mk1s used to make up the various Pullman trains. 

 

With a little care they can look ok. There is still a slight difference between the Hornby and Backmann shade of cream but I can live with that. I still need to paint the Mk1 roofs dirty grey as they are presently white. Falcon will haul the train. The Master Cutler was only a six coach train and only required altering four coaches. To complete the job the coach ends and doors should be painted in the darker shade of umber. 

 

Edited January 21, 2023 by Keith Turbutt
Photos added

[Keith Turbutt]

On 16/01/2023 at 12:08, Keith Turbutt said:

 

 Hi Tony,

 

Did you notice in my earlier post, a few pages back (!), that Blue Peter's tender has spoked wheels. Was this unusual as I would have expected 8 wheel tenders to have disc wheels?

 

Keith

 

 

[Tony Wright]

54 minutes ago, Keith Turbutt said:

 Hi Tony,

 

Did you notice in my earlier post, a few pages back (!), that Blue Peter's tender has spoked wheels. Was this unusual as I would have expected 8 wheel tenders to have disc wheels?

 

Keith

 

 

Good evening Keith,

 

Spoked wheels were not particularly uncommon on the eight-wheeled tenders, especially the A3 GNR ones. That said, I've only been able to find one tender behind an A4 (WOODCOCK in the '50s) with spoked wheels.

 

Some A1s certainly had spoked tender wheels, and when TORNADO was being built, I was told that spoked wheels were easer to manufacture - hence 60163's tender having spoked wheels.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

5 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

The merits of this Hornby venture have been, in fact still are being discussed at very great length on the Hornby thread.

 

I think as current modelers we are missing the point. We're not the target audience, Hornby are trying to tap in to a new market and I think very deliberately have chosen a scale and gauge combination that doesnt have wide existing support in an attempt to lock the new customers into Hornby for the long term.  As for the heavy enginneering approach I think that 'robustness' is factored in to appeal to the less experienced.

 

The range is small at the moment but there is a lot planned in the (free) catalogue that Hornby are giving away and at the moment you can join their 'Collectors Club' for nothing and be kept abreast of current and future developments. A lot of us have joined for this  reason alone I think. 

 

If TT120 takes off then perhaps an after market will develop to support any demand to refine the rtr product but I think thats several years hence. 

Good evening Mike,

 

I think you might have it there. The new TT range from Hornby would appear to be aimed at a new market; perhaps returnees after 'life' got in the way of hobbies, now in late middle age, retired with some space (but never enough) because the kids have gone and mortgage paid-off. It gives greater 'presence' than N, yet requires less space than OO. I think as a bold initiative, it deserves to succeed. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

A most pleasant time spent today in the company of Gilbert Barnatt, visiting his Peterborough North layout. 

 

Things didn't go exactly as planned (not a problem). The idea had been to search for missing bits off locos and, having found them (steps, shackles, vacuum standpipes, etc), fix them on. Except, very few bits were found. It would seem many might still be in the models' boxes, never fitted from new. So, a day spent searching through boxes is planned.

 

I think this illustrates a fundamental difference between plastic RTR locos and metal kit-built ones. Securely soldered-on items rarely fall off! 

 

Still, the day wasn't a waste at all. Apart from stimulating conversation, I took the opportunity for getting some more pictures of PN...........

 

 

 

 

Could Peterborough North be considered as a 'modern classic'? Worthy for inclusion in my layouts' list?

[Barry Ten]

Not to distract from the fine images of Peterborough North, but I thought I'd show a recent acquisition. 

 

 

The loco is, I think, a 381 class of the G&SWR and I think constructed from a DJH kit no longer in the range. It was sold as a Larry Goddard model, although whether that refers to the painting or the building as well, I don't know. I also can't speak for any errors of detail, but the quality of construction and finish is quite superb, and it runs very well with a virtually silent Portescap. The only thing I needed to do was nibble a bit of extra clearance out behind the cylinder - you can just see the bare metal where I haven't yet repainted it.

 

This was a very generous Christmas present from my wife.

 

[robertcwp]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

A most pleasant time spent today in the company of Gilbert Barnatt, visiting his Peterborough North layout. 

 

Things didn't go exactly as planned (not a problem). The idea had been to search for missing bits off locos and, having found them (steps, shackles, vacuum standpipes, etc), fix them on. Except, very few bits were found. It would seem many might still be in the models' boxes, never fitted from new. So, a day spent searching through boxes is planned.

 

I think this illustrates a fundamental difference between plastic RTR locos and metal kit-built ones. Securely soldered-on items rarely fall off! 

 

Still, the day wasn't a waste at all. Apart from stimulating conversation, I took the opportunity for getting some more pictures of PN...........

 

 

 

 

Could Peterborough North be considered as a 'modern classic'? Worthy for inclusion in my layouts' list?

I was fortunate to be able to visit some years back. I thought Peterborough North was very impressive then and it has probably progressed further since. 

[Tony Wright]

9 hours ago, robertcwp said:

I was fortunate to be able to visit some years back. I thought Peterborough North was very impressive then and it has probably progressed further since. 

Good morning Robert,

 

It has..............

 

 

Peter Leyland's new houses in Station Road just complete the background to this scene.............

 

Colin Walkeresque? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

Rummaging around the other day trying to find transparencies for my forthcoming BRM piece, I came across a big dusty box containing what remained of my medium-format camera equipment I used to use to take model railway photographs with...........

 

It contained..........

 

 

My Mamiya Super 23 'Press' camera (actually, a more-cumbersome press camera is hard to imagine). 

 

Endowed with the ergonomics of a house brick (and even heavier!), it's got an adjustable back (which one peered at the inverted image through). When happy with the image (illuminated by National Grid-draining thousands of Watts of Photo-floods), one just clipped on the appropriate film back (6x7 or 6x9, transparencies, colour print or B&W), removed the dark slide and took the picture. Having a leaf shutter, multi exposures could be made, so as to be able to 'paint with light'. Nothing about it was 'automatic', and on several occasions a dark slide was left in (meaning no image) or, even worse, a dark slide was left out (obliterating any image and those either side). A blue filter was needed for colour work, and if this were inadvertently left off, an image would be over-exposed (by two stops) and look like a glorious sunset! Exposures were bracketed, all done by the 'seat of one's pants'. With everything done 'properly' (thankfully most-often), the results were razor sharp and capable of extreme enlargement. 

 

I bought it (camera, one lens and one film back) over 30 years ago (second-hand) for the princely sum of £295.00 (it's still got the price sticker on it!). I added more lenses (some stopping down to F64!), extension tubes (for really close-up work) and more film backs. 

 

I last used it 20 years ago (by which time the camera's name had fallen off), and its worth today is nil. Still, like all proper professional cameras, it's black, and battered! 

 

Almost equally-battered.........And black.

 

 

Is my current camera; a Nikon Df, with a range of lenses. 

 

I cannot get on with little cameras..........

 

 

Edited January 21, 2023 by Tony Wright
to add something

[Michael Edge]

10 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

Not to distract from the fine images of Peterborough North, but I thought I'd show a recent acquisition. 

 

 

The loco is, I think, a 381 class of the G&SWR and I think constructed from a DJH kit no longer in the range. It was sold as a Larry Goddard model, although whether that refers to the painting or the building as well, I don't know. I also can't speak for any errors of detail, but the quality of construction and finish is quite superb, and it runs very well with a virtually silent Portescap. The only thing I needed to do was nibble a bit of extra clearance out behind the cylinder - you can just see the bare metal where I haven't yet repainted it.

 

This was a very generous Christmas present from my wife.

 

I built one of these many years ago which would probably have gone to Larry for painting. Have a look underneath it to see if “96/29” is stamped in anywhere or if you can see where a moulded works plate has been hacked off. A lot of my earlier work got this treatment, Larry would certainly not have built it but if he painted it usually signed it under footplate at one side with the date and sometimes the customer’s name as well.

[thegreenhowards]

14 hours ago, Keith Turbutt said:

Re the different shades of umber between Hornby's older Pullmans and Backmann Mk1 Pullmans a 'quick fix' - for a 'layout' coach is to use self adhesive overlays from Precision Labels -see these links:-

 

http://www.precisionlabels.com/sl20.html

 

http://www.precisionlabels.com/sl6.html

 

The umber overlays can be ordered for either the Hornby Pullmans to match the Bachmann Mk1s or visa versa depending on which shade  you believe to be more correct. For my Master Cutler I chose to buy overlays for the Backmann Mk1s to match the Hornby shade of umber.  The order form allows you to request the coach names or numbers which you require.

 

There is also information about the Mk1s used to make up the various Pullman trains. 

 

With a little care they can look ok. There is still a slight difference between the Hornby and Backmann shade of cream but I can live with that. I still need to paint the Mk1 roofs dirty grey as they are presently white. Falcon will haul the train. The Master Cutler was only a six coach train and only required altering four coaches. To complete the job the coach ends and doors should be painted in the darker shade of umber. 

 

I’d echo Keith’s comments about the Precision Labels Pullman labels. I’ve used them for some simple renaming and to shift Hornby Pullmans into a 1950s look. They also are useful for cut n shuts. Many of the Pullmans had different window arrangements and I wanted a Car 107, which was a ECML regular in the 1950s. So I chopped up an older Hornby car, and put it back together in the correct window arrangement resulting in this mess.

 

 

I turned this into a respectable looking coach in 10 minutes with the labels.

 

 

…and here is the final coach.

 

More details are on my workbench thread.

Andy
 

 

 

 

 

[Keith Turbutt]

1 hour ago, thegreenhowards said:

I’d echo Keith’s comments about the Precision Labels Pullman labels. I’ve used them for some simple renaming and to shift Hornby Pullmans into a 1950s look. They also are useful for cut n shuts. Many of the Pullmans had different window arrangements and I wanted a Car 107, which was a ECML regular in the 1950s. So I chopped up an older Hornby car, and put it back together in the correct window arrangement resulting in this mess.

 

 

I turned this into a respectable looking coach in 10 minutes with the labels.

 

 

…and here is the final coach.

 

More details are on my workbench thread.

Andy
 

 

 

 

 

Hi Andy,

 

I have added these photos to my OP. I like your conversions bye the way.

 

Cheers

Keith

[Barry Ten]

2 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

I built one of these many years ago which would probably have gone to Larry for painting. Have a look underneath it to see if “96/29” is stamped in anywhere or if you can see where a moulded works plate has been hacked off. A lot of my earlier work got this treatment, Larry would certainly not have built it but if he painted it usually signed it under footplate at one side with the date and sometimes the customer’s name as well.

 

I'm delighted to report that your works plate is under the tender, between the bogies. I hadn't noticed it until now.

 

The footplate has L Goddard 96/XII (I think it's 96 not 95) and a customer KT.

 

It's an honour to own such a fine piece of work.

[davidw]

17 hours ago, Keith Turbutt said:

Re the different shades of umber between Hornby's older Pullmans and Backmann Mk1 Pullmans a 'quick fix' - for a 'layout' coach is to use self adhesive overlays from Precision Labels -see these links:-

 

http://www.precisionlabels.com/sl20.html

 

http://www.precisionlabels.com/sl6.html

 

The umber overlays can be ordered for either the Hornby Pullmans to match the Bachmann Mk1s or visa versa depending on which shade  you believe to be more correct. For my Master Cutler I chose to buy overlays for the Backmann Mk1s to match the Hornby shade of umber.  The order form allows you to request the coach names or numbers which you require.

 

There is also information about the Mk1s used to make up the various Pullman trains. 

 

With a little care they can look ok. There is still a slight difference between the Hornby and Backmann shade of cream but I can live with that. I still need to paint the Mk1 roofs dirty grey as they are presently white. Falcon will haul the train. The Master Cutler was only a six coach train and only required altering four coaches. To complete the job the coach ends and doors should be painted in the darker shade of umber. 

 

I'd not thought of that. Thank you for posting. Though TBH it's the Hornby colours that grate.

[davidw]

13 hours ago, robertcwp said:

I was fortunate to be able to visit some years back. I thought Peterborough North was very impressive then and it has probably progressed further since. 

I too was fortunate to visit sometime back. It's an outstanding example of a prototype mainline station fitted into a relatively small space. Where Gilbert's research has scored so highly is the individualism of the locos. I'm thinking specifically of the Thompsons, and the desire to replicate very accurate carriage workings. This has been done before - but it's stands out whilst observing the thread.

[Michael Edge]

37 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

 

I'm delighted to report that your works plate is under the tender, between the bogies. I hadn't noticed it until now.

 

The footplate has L Goddard 96/XII (I think it's 96 not 95) and a customer KT.

 

It's an honour to own such a fine piece of work.

Glad to see the plate is still there - are you sure it's DJH? My records suggest it was scratchbuilt, finished 24.10.96. My works number will be under there somewhere.

[robertcwp]

This is the contrast between a Golden Age Hadrian Bar and a Hornby Pullman:

IMG_0302m by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

The Golden Age car is in early 1950s livery and is matchboarded, per the prototype at the time. The Hornby car is in post-1960 style.

[Barry Ten]

41 minutes ago, Michael Edge said:

Glad to see the plate is still there - are you sure it's DJH? My records suggest it was scratchbuilt, finished 24.10.96. My works number will be under there somewhere.

 

It could well be scratchbuilt, Mike. I'll investigate further.

 

It's in a  plain DJH box but that doesn't mean much. It's one of a very large collection of kitbuilt locos acquired from a single source by Lord & Butler and partners.  I gather there were more than 600 locos in the collection, mostly finished to a high standard and kept in cabinets. It's unlikely that any of them were ever run. The collection included LMS, SR, GWR and CR prototypes, but from what I could see little or nothing from the LNER and its constituents.

 

Prior to the 381 class, I've acquired a few Southern examples from the same collection. I've yet to see any builder attribution on those, but I've also yet to dismantle any of them so there may be surprises.

 

 

Edited January 21, 2023 by Barry Ten

[Michael Edge]

Don't be fooled by the box! If you got anything else from the same source they might well be mine as well - he had a huge collection of all sorts, from 009 to O gauge from me over many years which is gradually being sold off. I don't seem to have a photo of 96/29 but I have now, you've probably got a bargain there.

[Barry Ten]

25 minutes ago, Michael Edge said:

Don't be fooled by the box! If you got anything else from the same source they might well be mine as well - he had a huge collection of all sorts, from 009 to O gauge from me over many years which is gradually being sold off. I don't seem to have a photo of 96/29 but I have now, you've probably got a bargain there.

 

There's an extremely nice DJH U1 class in olive green, but I haven't take it apart yet. Other locos include a rebuilt Paddlebox, a River Class (very well made and a smooth runner, but seemingly based on a converted Bachmann V1 chassis), a  lovely Marsh 4-4-2T and a W class 2-6-4T in lined black.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Barry Ten

[MJI]

BR Black lining, what should I use?

 

Just had a disaster with very old Pressfix, the red lines would not stay parallel.

 

Any recommendations please for decent BR lining transfers which I could use?

[MJI]

This one

 

[Andy Hayter]

32 minutes ago, MJI said:

BR Black lining, what should I use?

 

Just had a disaster with very old Pressfix, the red lines would not stay parallel.

 

Any recommendations please for decent BR lining transfers which I could use?

 

Have you tried applying them as if they were Methfix?

 

After a while the gum on Pressfix loses its grip and the HMRS recommendation is to treat then then as Methfix.  I too have very old Pressfix in my transfer files and can attest that this does work.