Wright writes.....

[Compound2632]

12 minutes ago, Adam said:

 

I've been thinking about producing a J41 for a bit (because I happen to have an affection for the M&GN - mum was brought up on the route), I have Essery's book on M&GNJR locos and that shows the following:

 

1. Two locos (62 and 69 in 1906 and 1909 respectively) had H boilers for a spell, before receiving Midland G7 boilers (along with nos 68 and 71) in the early '20s. In the latter condition they also had new cabs which made them look much like a 3F with an extended smokebox - which is basically what they were.

 

2. Post the 1936 takeover, thorough repairs and repaints seem to have been at Stratford (there's lots of images of M&GN locos of various kinds on both sides of that process and this image (linked from: https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/MIDLAND-GREAT-NORTHERN-JOINT-RAILWAY/MIDLAND-GREAT-NORTHERN-JOINT-RAILWAY/i-HTkgS5z/A) shows that 071 at least was lined. The 4-4-0s certainly all were as was 058 which was well-photographed - the 0 prefix was an LNER thing, but yes, the last M&GN loco livery was brown, lined yellow, but 058 seems to have had the earlier branding applied to the tender. It wasn't alone.

 

Thank you, Adam - I have to confess that my knowledge of M&GN locomotive affairs, especially after 1923, is more limited than it ought to be. The only book I have is Clarke's, which, while pretty, is, I get the impression, not entirely reliable.

 

So what do you make of 058? Is this a locomotive that has been painted black at Stratford, coupled to a brown tender, or a locomotive that is brown, but renumbered at Melton Constable, or some other permutation? I can't see Stratford lettering a repainted tender M&GN!

 

 

[Embedded link to Smugmug gallery.]

[Adam]

11 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Thank you, Adam - I have to confess that my knowledge of M&GN locomotive affairs, especially after 1923, is more limited than it ought to be. The only book I have is Clarke's, which, while pretty, is, I get the impression, not entirely reliable.

 

So what do you make of 058? Is this a locomotive that has been painted black at Stratford, coupled to a brown tender, or a locomotive that is brown, but renumbered at Melton Constable, or some other permutation? I can't see Stratford lettering a repainted tender M&GN!

 

 

[Embedded link to Smugmug gallery.]

 

Essery says Melton renumbered it (and now the three-year-old is having lunch), a more detailed look at Essery states that 058 was brown - there's a nice picture of a shiny 058 in 1936 on p. 120 of his book and that seems convincing).

 

Adam

PS - I have a copy of Clark's book, too and, in an indicative error, on p. 89, has two Derby-built J41s as 'DA' (the Doncaster J3 or J4s)... It's a very pretty book though, and has some useful images and there are *dozens* available for pennies.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Adam

[MJI]

Did any of the ex LNWR stock on the M&GN get to LB?

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, MJI said:

Did any of the ex LNWR stock on the M&GN get to LB?

 

It got to New Street, so would certainly have passed over the bridge at Little Bytham:

 

 

[Embedded link to Warwickshire Railways; see caption for learned discussion.]

 

Ratio kit, of course. 

[MJI]

10 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

It got to New Street, so would certainly have passed over the bridge at Little Bytham:

 

 

[Embedded link to Warwickshire Railways; see caption for learned discussion.]

 

Ratio kit, of course. 

 

That was the site I was thinking of.

 

So unusual as well.

[MJI]

Reading that you think it is old. But to put it into more recognisable for present day people.

 

Mark 3 prototype HST vehicles are a similar age and some still in service.

[Tony Wright]

6 hours ago, micklner said:

Tony,

        Some info on the J40 here

 

https://www.lner.info/locos/J/j40j41.php

 

        Not the area of the LNER I model , so I have no idea re Red lining. I would be very surprised if the LNER lined them out , on reading the attachment they sound like they were on their last legs when the LNER took them over , as occasional passenger Locos perhaps ?

      A Falcon Brass/Jidenco kit good luck !!

Thanks Mick,

 

According to Yeadon's Register featuring the class, 058 was the last of the J40s to have a general repair at Melton Constable, in October 1936. There's a picture of it, gleaming in lined black, with 'M&GN' on the tender. It would appear that 063 was in similar condition. From that date, Stratford took over, though 058, 063, 66, 67 and 72 were never repaired there (presumably retaining their 'M&GN' status to withdrawal?). The surviving other seven J40s were shopped there, and had red lining applied.

 

So, they must have looked like this............

 

 

This was taken during the '38 LNER weekend on Little Bytham, five years ago. I think this was made by the legendary Eric Fry, though the Grantham chaps brought many locos. 

 

 

A friend built this K's 2F as a J40 with the same number (though he didn't line it). I've got it at the moment to change a dud motor. 

 

Could this loco below be turned into a J40?

 

 

It's an OO Works ex-MR 2F. 

 

The drivers are smaller, though there's space inside the splashers to fit larger ones. The clacks and the outside brake rigging could be removed with ease. Extra detail could be added. It definitely looks a possibility; repainting would be easy.

 

It used to belong to Brian Lee, who bought it for £232.00 some 12 years ago. I sold it, but it failed and it came back. Though I can't guarantee second-hand models I sell, since the buyer was a good friend, I returned it to OO Works and it's been repaired (at a cost, of course). 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, Adam said:

 

Essery says Melton renumbered it (and now the three-year-old is having lunch), a more detailed look at Essery states that 058 was brown - there's a nice picture of a shiny 058 in 1936 on p. 120 of his book and that seems convincing).

 

Adam

PS - I have a copy of Clark's book, too and, in an indicative error, on p. 89, has two Derby-built J41s as 'DA' (the Doncaster J3 or J4s)... It's a very pretty book though, and has some useful images and there are *dozens* available for pennies.

Good afternoon Adam,

 

As in my previous post...........

 

The same picture of 058 which appears in Essery's book also appears in Yeadon's, where it's described as being black. Interestingly, the dates differ by two days.............

 

I'd be a little suspicious of some of the details in Bob Essery's book. He claims the rebuilds with larger boilers were classified J40, not, as they were, J41! 

 

This is a fascinating topic; I really had no real intention of building locos for my trainset which had all been scrapped before BR. Yes, I know the MR/M&GNR bit is more-fluid in its time depiction than the main line (the through route's last decade), but, looking at what was running during the '38 LNER weekend, it is very tempting............

 

 

 

 

 

 

Who wouldn't be tempted to build items like this, especially with the correct girder bridge now in place?

 

Actually, the D9 is mine (now with the correct-sized letters on its tender), as is the unpainted D3. 

 

I can see I'm going to have to build plenty of passenger rolling stock, however!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Tony Wright
to add something

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, MJI said:

Did any of the ex LNWR stock on the M&GN get to LB?

Good afternoon Martin,

 

1935 saw an influx of bogie coaches to the M&GNR, several ex-LNWR built in the 19th Century. By the time some of the stock was withdrawn, it was over 60 years old! 

 

Several ex-MR carriages (with clerestory roofs) also appeared at the same time. It would appear they were branded 'M&GN' and unlined in red, or it could be brown. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Compound2632]

34 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

The same picture of 058 which appears in Essery's book also appears in Yeadon's, where it's described as being black. Interestingly, the dates differ by two days.............

 

I'd be a little suspicious of some of the details in Bob Essery's book. He claims the rebuilds with larger boilers were classified J40, not, as they were, J41! 

 

Just goes to show the risks involved when those well-versed in LMS matters venture onto LNER matters and vice versa (vide that LNER encylopedia page). Peter Tatlow's series of LNER wagon books are a noble ecumenical exception.

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, Tony Wright said:

1935 saw an influx of bogie coaches to the M&GNR, several ex-LNWR built in the 19th Century. By the time some of the stock was withdrawn, it was over 60 years old! 

 

Several ex-MR carriages (with clerestory roofs) also appeared at the same time. It would appear they were branded 'M&GN' and unlined in red, or it could be brown. 

 

My other book on the M&GN, Nigel Digby's Guide, has a photo that shows that the ex-LNWR and ex-MR carriages transferred in 1935 retained their fully-lined LMS livery, at least initially. There were also ex-NER carriages transferred at this time. I was intrigued to learn that the final transfer of ex-LNWR carriages was after the LNER had assumed operational responsibility. 

 

The MR and GNR had provided carriages in 1903. The MR vehicles retained their red livery initially (per the restored saloon) but were repainted in faux teak within a few years, varnished teak having been the Eastern & Midlands livery. That would make for a provocative model!

[MJI]

I wonder what the in BR service vehicles livery was for the really old stuff?

[jwealleans]

44 minutes ago, MJI said:

I wonder what the in BR service vehicles livery was for the really old stuff?

 

Brown paint.   There was an instruction fairly early on in BR that vehicles likely to be withdrawn fairly quickly (essentially pregrouping stock) was to be painted brown rather than blood and custard.   Catering vehicles were excepted.

[MJI]

3 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

 

Brown paint.   There was an instruction fairly early on in BR that vehicles likely to be withdrawn fairly quickly (essentially pregrouping stock) was to be painted brown rather than blood and custard.   Catering vehicles were excepted.

 

Hmm I might get a TK and build one of these just for the fun of it. Even though out of period for 1957, 1962, or 1980s. I suppose the 1957 one could use it with my 2P.

 

Then some of my lates 70s VB wagons are getting reused for another project.

[t-b-g]

How nice to see some really interesting and unusual models and prototypes.

 

I have been banging on about not "following the herd" for long enough and it is lovely to see the results when that happens.

 

Malcolm Crawley converted a small GNR 0-6-0 (probably a J3 but I can't remember for sure) into a M & GN loco along with one of his MR 2F kits. Both were finished in plain black with tenders lettered LNER and with 0 prefixed numbers. I recall that they only needed slight modification to make them accurate for the chosen prototypes but again, it was around 20 years ago and I can't remember exactly what needed to be changed.

[uax6]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

No wonder the M&GN was closed... double manning signalboxes!

 

I just wish we still had the front veranda here, it would be a good vantage point.

 

Andy G

Edited February 5, 2023 by uax6

[Izzy]

On 03/02/2023 at 11:53, Barry Ten said:

I don't remember seeing much catenary on Wright Writes?

 

We can put that right with some proper eastern area stuff 😀 so long as Tony doesn't mind.

 

A N7/3 rests betwen duties under the wires.

 

 

And a AM9/309 EMU Clacton Electric in the original maroon with the curved cab windows leaves on it's way to Colchester North and then London Liverpool St.

 

 

Just a couple of shots of my little 2FS layout Priory Road with original Mk1 25Kv OHLE.

 

Bob

[Bucoops]

23 minutes ago, Izzy said:

 

We can put that right with some proper eastern area stuff 😀 so long as Tony doesn't mind.

 

A N7/3 rests betwen duties under the wires.

 

 

And a AM9/309 EMU Clacton Electric in the original maroon with the curved cab windows leaves on it's way to Colchester North and then London Liverpool St.

 

 

Just a couple of shots of my little 2FS layout Priory Road with original Mk1 25Kv OHLE.

 

Bob

 

Love it, my favourite kettle and my favourite unit.

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

How nice to see some really interesting and unusual models and prototypes.

 

I have been banging on about not "following the herd" for long enough and it is lovely to see the results when that happens.

 

Malcolm Crawley converted a small GNR 0-6-0 (probably a J3 but I can't remember for sure) into a M & GN loco along with one of his MR 2F kits. Both were finished in plain black with tenders lettered LNER and with 0 prefixed numbers. I recall that they only needed slight modification to make them accurate for the chosen prototypes but again, it was around 20 years ago and I can't remember exactly what needed to be changed.

Good evening Tony,

 

Do you think that anyone on Wright writes 'follows the herd'? I don't think so, not if the recent RMweb survey is anything to go by (other than that the steam/diesel transition era seems most-popular); popular among RTR-users it would appear to be.

 

Wright writes is all about making things; which means interesting models, even if some ECML prototypes aren't that unusual. However, they used to be very unusual. 'Following the herd' in my formative modelling years was modelling the GWR. My perception (maybe through the eye of prejudice) was an endless supply of GWR branch line termini. Early kit-manufacturers seemed to support this, with most-GWR loco types catered for long before others became available. I was greeted almost with disbelief when I started scratch-building the likes of Thompson Pacifics (not far off 50 years ago now). Who wants those? They were loathed, weren't they? 

 

I still don't 'follow the herd', because I'm not a user of RTR in the main. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Clive Mortimore]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

Could this loco below be turned into a J40?

 

 

It's an OO Works ex-MR 2F. 

 

The drivers are smaller, though there's space inside the splashers to fit larger ones. The clacks and the outside brake rigging could be removed with ease. Extra detail could be added. It definitely looks a possibility; repainting would be easy.

 

It used to belong to Brian Lee, who bought it for £232.00 some 12 years ago. I sold it, but it failed and it came back. Though I can't guarantee second-hand models I sell, since the buyer was a good friend, I returned it to OO Works and it's been repaired (at a cost, of course). 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Sadly no,  MR/LMS No 2694 was a member of the 1142 class. This one one of two classes of class 2 freight  0-6-0 locos with 4 ft 11 in driving wheels, easily identified by their outside pull rods to the brakes. The M&GNJR class D locos had 5 ft 3 in driving wheels and their brake rods were inside the wheels.

[Tony Wright]

8 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Sadly no,  MR/LMS No 2694 was a member of the 1142 class. This one one of two classes of class 2 freight  0-6-0 locos with 4 ft 11 in driving wheels, easily identified by their outside pull rods to the brakes. The M&GNJR class D locos had 5 ft 3 in driving wheels and their brake rods were inside the wheels.

But, if as I surmised, I changed the drivers, removed the outside brake rigging and removed the clacks, why not? 

[Compound2632]

3 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Sadly no,  MR/LMS No 2694 was a member of the 1142 class. This one one of two classes of class 2 freight  0-6-0 locos with 4 ft 11 in driving wheels, easily identified by their outside pull rods to the brakes. The M&GNJR class D locos had 5 ft 3 in driving wheels and their brake rods were inside the wheels.

 

Although the next class, the 1357 Class, with 5' 3" wheels, was identical, just pitched 2" higher - boiler, running plate, and all. The tell-tale is that the buffers sit at the bottom rather than middle of the buffer beam.

 

But there are many minor differences between the 1357 Class, and the M Class, which is what the M&GN engines were - nearly 20 years between them.

[Barry Ten]

50 minutes ago, Izzy said:

 

 

Just a couple of shots of my little 2FS layout Priory Road with original Mk1 25Kv OHLE.

 

Bob

 

That's very fine modelling indeed, and I certainly wouldn't have imagined it was 2FS if you hadn't said so.

[mullie]

Tony

 

I have just spent a very pleasurable few evenings watching the December 2022 running sequence video and have saved it to a playlist as I'm bound to watch it again, what a fantastic record of the layout.

 

Having caught up with the latest posts about M&GN matters, an interest of mine, are there any plans to make a video of the M&GN part of the layout, some of us would very much like to see it?

 

In the interests of show and tell here is my latest offering, an Oxford Rail ex GE van. Wheels opened out to EM gauge pending replacement, weathered and standing on Upbech quay, part of my small shelf layout made up of three interconnected scenes.

 

 

 

Weathering is carried out using artists acrylics, inks and chalks.

 

Regards

 

Martyn

[t-b-g]

21 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Tony,

 

Do you think that anyone on Wright writes 'follows the herd'? I don't think so, not if the recent RMweb survey is anything to go by (other than that the steam/diesel transition era seems most-popular); popular among RTR-users it would appear to be.

 

Wright writes is all about making things; which means interesting models, even if some ECML prototypes aren't that unusual. However, they used to be very unusual. 'Following the herd' in my formative modelling years was modelling the GWR. My perception (maybe through the eye of prejudice) was an endless supply of GWR branch line termini. Early kit-manufacturers seemed to support this, with most-GWR loco types catered for long before others became available. I was greeted almost with disbelief when I started scratch-building the likes of Thompson Pacifics (not far off 50 years ago now). Who wants those? They were loathed, weren't they? 

 

I still don't 'follow the herd', because I'm not a user of RTR in the main. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Once upon a time your Thompson pacifics were unusual models that needed hand crafting. Nowadays, anybody can have one.

 

The 1957/8 BR steam/early diesel period is, for reasons that have been discussed many times before (such as personal memory) very popular.

 

It wasn't long ago that we were talking about how popular modelling the ECML, especially in BR days, is. Great lists of layouts were being produced to show how "popular" it is as a subject. So the M & GN is certainly much more obscure and less "following the herd" than the ECML in the late 1950s.

 

I don't think that Wright Writes is any better or worse than the hobby as a whole in that respect. We get lots of the really popular stuff that lots of people model and small amounts of more obscure stuff. It is only natural. There are certainly some less common prototypes that appear on here from time to time and I always enjoy them very much.

 

I just happen to enjoy and appreciate the more obscure stuff. I always have and always will. We have had many hundreds of photos of LNER Pacifics on here and only a handful of M&GN types. That makes them, to me, more unusual and more interesting and caused me to comment in appreciation.