Wright writes.....

[micklner]

4mm LNER G5 ready for thin coat of primer. Pick ups on all wheels , weighs a ton and is going well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

4 hours ago, MJI said:

Yes, of course.

 

That is interesting thanks, the 1950s pictured one was electric lighted.

 

They are nice mouldings, just need a use for them.

 

Were they in pretend tesk then, or brown?

Good afternoon Mark,

 

Though the shots are only in B&W, the panel lining suggests that the cascaded carriages (LNWR and MR) are in LMS livery (though lettered 'M&GN'). This is in 1937; now, here's the question - how would they have been repainted, if at all? I'd suggest plain brown, certainly by wartime. I can't see any survivors into BR days being anything but plain brown. There was a post on here some little time ago showing an ex-LNWR carriage in early BR days at Birmingham New Street, on an M&GNR service; in plain brown, but numbered 'E ???? E? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[MJI]

Is it E60123E?

 

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwrbns_br1823.htm

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, MJI said:

Is it E60123E?

 

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwrbns_br1823.htm

 

In the caption to that photo, it is stated that the carriage in question has been pressed into service on a West Country express (presumably meaning a train taking the Midland route to Bristol) and that it is in yellow-green livery, the date being 6 Sept 1952. The provenance of these statements is unclear - whether the photographer's original notes or Mourton and Pixton, authors of Birmingham-Bristol Portrait of a Famous Route. But yellow-green seems very strange; I'm aware a livery of green lower panels and yellow upper panels was applied to some LNER excursion stock - I'm sure someone on here can tell us what but and ex-LNWR ex-LMS ex-M&GN carriage seems a very unlikely candidate, to me. Perhaps yellow-green is the appearance of very worn LNER brown? 

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

In the caption to that photo, it is stated that the carriage in question has been pressed into service on a West Country express (presumably meaning a train taking the Midland route to Bristol) and that it is in yellow-green livery, the date being 6 Sept 1952. The provenance of these statements is unclear - whether the photographer's original notes or Mourton and Pixton, authors of Birmingham-Bristol Portrait of a Famous Route. But yellow-green seems very strange; I'm aware a livery of green lower panels and yellow upper panels was applied to some LNER excursion stock - I'm sure someone on here can tell us what but and ex-LNWR ex-LMS ex-M&GN carriage seems a very unlikely candidate, to me. Perhaps yellow-green is the appearance of very worn LNER brown? 

Thanks Stephen,

 

The LNER 'Tourist Stock' (for excursions) was painted with cream upper section and apple green lower section. I don't think this livery was applied to any other LNER stock (whatever its origin) apart from the Sentinel steam railcars and trailers (were the Tyneside EMUs painted in this style as well, anyone?). 

 

'Yellow-green' does seem very strange; I'm certain it'll be very-faded LNER brown (which is how I'll render the carriages I'll build). 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Chamby]

8 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Stephen,

 

From what's been shown/mentioned of late, the Hatton's Genesis carriages are superior to the Hornby ones. The problem is, any that I might have wanted to experiment with/alter/weather (the LNER ones) have all sold out, and there won't be a re-run.

 

Does anyone know of a source of supply, please? I'd like to feature both manufacturers' products in my article. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

There is a second batch of Hattons genesis coaches in the pipeline, but it’s not due until December.  No teak examples are listed, but GER ‘Stratford Brown’ liveried examples are currently available to pre-order on the website.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Chamby
Correction

[ecgtheow]

3 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Stephen,

 

The LNER 'Tourist Stock' (for excursions) was painted with cream upper section and apple green lower section. I don't think this livery was applied to any other LNER stock (whatever its origin) apart from the Sentinel steam railcars and trailers (were the Tyneside EMUs painted in this style as well, anyone?). 

 

'Yellow-green' does seem very strange; I'm certain it'll be very-faded LNER brown (which is how I'll render the carriages I'll build). 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Tony,

As far as all the books that I have on the M&GNR the ex-LNWR, ex-NER, ex-MR coaches sent to the line were initially in the LMS or LNER liveries but often renumbered & as they needed repainting they were turned out in Stratford brown, though it's possible that some of the ex-NER coaches were a darker shade?

 

William

[t-b-g]

Vallejo sell a colour called "green yellow" which on my screen looks just like a sort of faded khaki colour. Probably not far off the "faded brown" effect that we might expect. They also sell a "yellow green" which is a pretty lurid yellow colour.

 

So if the caption had said "green yellow" rather than "yellow green" I could live with that quite happily.

[Tony Teague]

Are you sure it isn't 'improved engine green'? 😏

[jwealleans]

I've just flicked through the Seabrook M & GN photos which the LNER Society now hold and all the carriages he photographed (in the mid 1950s) are monochrome with no evidence of teaking visible, so I'd say they were overall brown.  Most are ex-Midland, suggesting the LNWR ones were withdrawn first.

 

I have seen (and predictably cannot now find) one M & GN ex-LNWR vehicle in blood and custard.  It was not a dining vehicle either (did the M & GN have any dining cars?) so must have been very much an exception to the rule.

[richard i]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I don't think this livery was applied to any other LNER stock (whatever its origin) apart from the Sentinel steam railcars and trailers (were the Tyneside EMUs painted in this style as well, anyone?). 

 

I believe the emu were red lower panels and cream uppers and then repainted blue lower panels and cream uppers. I think it was that way round. I have a colour photo of one in the cream blue livery somewhere.

happy to be proved wrong.

richard 

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, jwealleans said:

I have seen (and predictably cannot now find) one M & GN ex-LNWR vehicle in blood and custard.  It was not a dining vehicle either (did the M & GN have any dining cars?) so must have been very much an exception to the rule.

 

The Joint had no dining cars - any dining would have been GN/LNE carriages through from Kings Cross or possibly Midland / LMS from Leicester and points beyond (Birmingham, Manchester) and only on, I think, high summer workings.

[micklner]

34 minutes ago, richard i said:

I believe the emu were red lower panels and cream uppers and then repainted blue lower panels and cream uppers. I think it was that way round. I have a colour photo of one in the cream blue livery somewhere.

happy to be proved wrong.

richard 

http://www.emus.co.uk/tyn.htm

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

The Joint had no dining cars - any dining would have been GN/LNE carriages through from Kings Cross or possibly Midland / LMS from Leicester and points beyond (Birmingham, Manchester) and only on, I think, high summer workings.

Good evening Stephen,

 

Right up to the end, the M&GNR section had a catering vehicle in the 'Leicester' (not of M&GNR origin'). In fact, the very last 'Leicester' (at the end of February 1959) had an ex-GE catering car, painted in carmine/cream. 

 

Judging on the period, as it passed Little Bytham it was either at the front or the rear of the train. It was at the front leaving South Lynn and all the way, and remained so until the Spalding avoiding line was closed, and the train then had to enter Spalding Station, coming out the opposite way, with the catering car now at the rear.

 

There is an excellent picture of the 'Leicester' on page 48 of East Midlands Branch Line Album by Anthony J Lambert, Ian Allan 1978, at Syston in August 1957, with the catering car leading (in what looks to be maroon). It's classed as a Buffet Car. 

 

I built a D&S kit for the ex-GE RF (long down-rated from First Class), painting it maroon for service in my M&GNR model train at Little Bytham.

 

 

 

I branded it 'Buffet', but there is evidence (another one was in the boat train as far as Sheffield) that it should be branded 'Restaurant Car'. I await the conclusive evidence...........

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

Edited February 19, 2023 by Tony Wright
to add something

[Compound2632]

8 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Right up to the end, the M&GNR section had a catering vehicle in the 'Leicester' (not of M&GNR origin'). In fact, the very last 'Leicester' (at the end of February 1959) had an ex-GE catering car, painted in carmine/cream. 

 

i should have remembered that model, since now that I see it I recall it being discussed. 

 

But this is a carriage allocated to the M&GN section, rather than a M&GNJR carriage, if you follow my rather fine distinction! The M&GNJR had no catering vehicles in its carriage stock, as far as I'm aware, in the days before the LNER took over responsibility for operation. 

[jrg1]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Stephen,

 

Right up to the end, the M&GNR section had a catering vehicle in the 'Leicester' (not of M&GNR origin'). In fact, the very last 'Leicester' (at the end of February 1959) had an ex-GE catering car, painted in carmine/cream. 

 

Judging on the period, as it passed Little Bytham it was either at the front or the rear of the train. It was at the front leaving South Lynn and all the way, and remained so until the Spalding avoiding line was closed, and the train then had to enter Spalding Station, coming out the opposite way, with the catering car now at the rear.

 

There is an excellent picture of the 'Leicester' on page 48 of East Midlands Branch Line Album by Anthony J Lambert, Ian Allan 1978, at Syston in August 1957, with the catering car leading (in what looks to be maroon). It's classed as a Buffet Car. 

 

I built a D&S kit for the ex-GE RF (long down-rated from First Class), painting it maroon for service in my M&GNR model train at Little Bytham.

 

 

 

I branded it 'Buffet', but there is evidence (another one was in the boat train as far as Sheffield) that it should be branded 'Restaurant Car'. I await the conclusive evidence...........

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

Happy to oblige-incidentally, the NCC even had a Bulleid Tavern Car in the consist for a short time.

[jwealleans]

I think that's my text underneath that picture.   The vehicle is E667E which has been taken off the North Country Continental at Sheffield rather than an M&GN service.

 

I quickly found when researching that carriage that the one consistent feature of these vehicles when the LNER updated them was their inconsistency, including branding. 

Edited February 20, 2023 by jwealleans

[Bucoops]

7 hours ago, jrg1 said:

Happy to oblige-incidentally, the NCC even had a Bulleid Tavern Car in the consist for a short time.

 

Interesting TO to the left of the restaurant.

 

[Tony Wright]

10 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

i should have remembered that model, since now that I see it I recall it being discussed. 

 

But this is a carriage allocated to the M&GN section, rather than a M&GNJR carriage, if you follow my rather fine distinction! The M&GNJR had no catering vehicles in its carriage stock, as far as I'm aware, in the days before the LNER took over responsibility for operation. 

Good morning Stephen,

 

I did get your 'rather fine distinction' - hence my 'not of M&GNR origin' comment. 

 

Naturally, I can't find it at the moment but I've got a shot somewhere of the 'Leicester' (behind an Ivatt 4MT) with a different catering car from the ex-GE one. In fact, the more I look at shots of trains on the M&GNR (in BR days), the more I've come to the conclusion that almost 'anything goes'. In my 'ignorance', I thought that passenger trains would be formed of superannuated vehicles, the most-modern being older Gresleys or earlier ex-LMS cars. That's true in many cases, but I've found shots which feature Thompson carriages, LMS 'Porthole' stock and even Mk.1s - front line cars of the period, yet running on very much a secondary route (and not just on summer Saturdays). 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[jwealleans]

Quote

Interesting TO to the left of the restaurant.

 

 

There was an ex-GE TO in the train early in the 1950s, which later became an LNER D27/27A as far as i recall.

Edited February 20, 2023 by jwealleans

[MarkC]

22 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

 

Interesting TO to the left of the restaurant.

 

Perhaps that was the inspiration for Top Gear's "Sc*m Class"? 🤔

[46444]

Hi Tony,

 

I've been given a Bachmann A1 Class 60157 Great Eastern to detail and weather.

 

No nameplates are supplied with the loco. I see Fox do a suitable set for this A1.

 

Out of interest who would be your preferred nameplate supplier? 

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Mark 

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, 46444 said:

Hi Tony,

 

I've been given a Bachmann A1 Class 60157 Great Eastern to detail and weather.

 

No nameplates are supplied with the loco. I see Fox do a suitable set for this A1.

 

Out of interest who would be your preferred nameplate supplier? 

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Mark 

Good evening Mark,

 

I assume you mean this model?

 

 

How far does your detailing brief go? You see, 60157 was one of five A1s built with roller bearings, which means only one lubricator and round keeps to the Cartazzi and tender axleboxes (something conveniently forgotten by Bachmann). 

 

 

You can see the round keeps and single lubricator on this DJH example I built. 

 

I use both 247 Developments' and Fox's 'plates.

 

 

These are 247's. Not only did Geoff Haynes paint the whole loco, he hand-painted the GER coat of arms.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

Mention of the M&GNR-section catering car led me to take this picture this afternoon.............

 

 

It shows the 'Leicester' on Little Bytham, heading westwards towards Melton Mowbray. The motive power is a detailed/weathered Bachmann item (a very fine model). 

 

One thing I've noticed is the roof on the D&S ex-GE catering car. It's made of plastic, and in the six years since I made the carriage, it would appear to have warped and sagged at the cantrail. Rather alarming!

 

Another M&GNR shot...........

 

 

A couple of weeks ago, a friend asked if I would replace the motor in this venerable K's J40 (MR 2F), built at the dawn of modelling time. The open-framed piece of antiquity had died. I've fitted a DJH motor/gearbox (which cost rather more than the loco is worth!), giving super-smooth running. 

 

I'll have to have my own J40 for the M&GNR bit.

 

 

[Tony Wright]

Enough of fiddling with 'make-believe' 'Genesis' models.......

 

 

 

More progress on the latest DJH A3 I'm building...................