Wright writes.....

[rowanj]

Here is my Sonic Models A5/1,  renumbered to represent a loco which was, briefly, based at Saltburn, so just about sneaks into  a possible visitor to my layouts'  location. I think it is a splendid first attempt from Sonic, but, inevitably, is too shiny, so I dusted it down with weathering powders. The photo I used as a guide is also posted here, but doubtless is copyrighted.

I  do have a badly -made, (though, in this instance, not by me), Craftsman kit, which may be dismantled to become something like an A5/2. Sods law means the poor body sits on a nice-running chassis- Gibson frames and Mashima/Highlevel mechanism. I'll see what happens when it goes into the brake fluid bath.

[MarkC]

20 minutes ago, rowanj said:

Here is my Sonic Models A5/1,  renumbered to represent a loco which was, briefly, based at Saltburn, so just about sneaks into  a possible visitor to my layouts'  location. I think it is a splendid first attempt from Sonic, but, inevitably, is too shiny, so I dusted it down with weathering powders. The photo I used as a guide is also posted here, but doubtless is copyrighted.

I  do have a badly -made, (though, in this instance, not by me), Craftsman kit, which may be dismantled to become something like an A5/2. Sods law means the poor body sits on a nice-running chassis- Gibson frames and Mashima/Highlevel mechanism. I'll see what happens when it goes into the brake fluid bath.

Hmm, being a Saltburn based locomotive, it might well have found its way down to Scarborough on occasion...

 

Now, didn't the A5/1s have to be cut down slightly in order to fit the NER's slightly tighter loading gauge?

 

Mark

[Tony Wright]

15 minutes ago, MarkC said:

Hmm, being a Saltburn based locomotive, it might well have found its way down to Scarborough on occasion...

 

Now, didn't the A5/1s have to be cut down slightly in order to fit the NER's slightly tighter loading gauge?

 

Mark

Good afternoon Mark,

 

The notes on the Isinglass drawing for an A5/1 suggest some of the locos kept their original GC chimneys to the end, but in 1952 three locos (69824/6/9) were fitted with A5/2-style 1' 3" chimneys so that they could work on the ex-GE section from Norwich. The notes suggest that all the A5/1s eventually got lower domes, but there's no mention of the need to lower things for working on the ex-NE. 

 

According to the notes on the appropriate Isinglass drawing of the 13 Hawthorn Leslie A5/2s      'Some alterations had to be made so that they would clear the tighter N.E. area loading gauge, others to meet further criteria. The engines were 2 ins narrower, the chimney & dome were shorter, the whistle was re-sited and the cab roof was re-contoured. The bogie was moved forward 4 ins to permit the use of J39 cylinders, and the engine altered to left hand driving. The engine  brakes were altered to Westinghouse...................' 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.         

[Tony Wright]

3 hours ago, micklner said:

Red lined wheels.

It would appear as a result of Bachmann issuing the latest J72 with lined Red wheels, all of a sudden everything LNER has red lined wheels e.g TMC has them on the forthcoming G5 .

I have never seen any other LNER Loco other than the J72 with Red lined wheels. Hopefully that is correct , as I personally do want to line out any wheels! Red !.

Good afternoon Mick,

 

The lined black LNER locos which I've built which Ian Rathbone and Geoff Haynes have painted for me have red-lined wheels.

 

Knowing their expertise (and ability), I assume it's correct.

 

 

London Road D2.

 

 

DJH Klondike

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited February 25, 2023 by Tony Wright
typo error

[MJI]

Quick question, I need to lose a couple of mm off the end of a motor shaft, already the backhead is very thin.

 

What is the best tool, motor is fully mounted, about 6mm sticking out, 4mm would fit OK. electric terminals do not touch backhead and are about 5mm.

 

Thanks

 

Martin

[MarkC]

18 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon Mark,

 

The notes on the Isinglass drawing for an A5/1 suggest some of the locos kept their original GC chimneys to the end, but in 1952 three locos (69824/6/9) were fitted with A5/2-style 1' 3" chimneys so that they could work on the ex-GE section from Norwich. The notes suggest that all the A5/1s eventually got lower domes, but there's no mention of the need to lower things for working on the ex-NE. 

 

According to the notes on the appropriate Isinglass drawing of the 13 Hawthorn Leslie A5/2s      'Some alterations had to be made so that they would clear the tighter N.E. area loading gauge, others to meet further criteria. The engines were 2 ins narrower, the chimney & dome were shorter, the whistle was re-sited and the cab roof was re-contoured. The bogie was moved forward 4 ins to permit the use of J39 cylinders, and the engine altered to left hand driving. The engine  brakes were altered to Westinghouse...................' 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.         

Thank you for that, Tony. All interesting minutiae there, How fascinating to know that a small alteration was made to allow J39 cylinders to be used - saving the cost of making new patterns, of course.

 

Interesting too that the tighter loading gauge is only mentioned in the A5/2 notes.

 

As ever, it seems that photos of one's chosen steed, for the period required, are de rigeur

 

Regards

Mark

[lezz01]

33 minutes ago, MJI said:

Quick question, I need to lose a couple of mm off the end of a motor shaft, already the backhead is very thin.

 

What is the best tool, motor is fully mounted, about 6mm sticking out, 4mm would fit OK. electric terminals do not touch backhead and are about 5mm.

 

Thanks

 

Martin

You could use a slitting disc in a mini drill. If you don't have one you can use a triangular needle file to make a notch in the shaft at the appropriate point and once you are around half way though the shaft will snap of at the notch use two pairs of pliers for this or hold the end of the shaft in a vice and use a pair of pliers to apply pressure to the shaft the motor side of the notch. Then you can clean up the end with a flat file. If you use this method be very carful not to bend the shaft. Personally I would use a slitting disc. You will need to remove the motor from the mount to do this as you don't want to get any metal or cutting disc particles in the bearings or the gears. 

Regards Lez.  

Edited February 25, 2023 by lezz01

[MJI]

6 minutes ago, lezz01 said:

You could use a slitting disc in a mini drill. If you don't have one you can use a triangular needle file to make a notch in the shaft at the appropriate point and once you are around half way though the shaft will snap of at the notch use two pairs of pliers for this or hold the end of the shaft in a vice and use a pair of pliers to apply pressure to the shaft the motor side of the notch. Then you can clean up the end with a flat file. If you use this method be very carful not to bend the shaft. Personally I would use a slitting disc. You will need to remove the motor from the mount to do this as you don't want to get any metal or cutting disc particles in the bearings or the gears. 

Regards Lez.  

Not sure if I can get a disc in so will probably use the file, will try to remove another 0.5mm of backhead.

 

4-4-0 chassis

 

I am trying to avoid any waddle by not allowing side to side on the front bogie but plenty of sideplay on the rear axle.

 

If I was making my own chassis rather than a Comet kit I would have treated it like a Bo Bo.

 

It will be running mainly on straights but planning curves of around 1m radius.

 

Should this be enough?

[Chuffer Davies]

27 minutes ago, MJI said:

Not sure if I can get a disc in so will probably use the file, will try to remove another 0.5mm of backhead.

 

4-4-0 chassis

 

I am trying to avoid any waddle by not allowing side to side on the front bogie but plenty of sideplay on the rear axle.

 

If I was making my own chassis rather than a Comet kit I would have treated it like a Bo Bo.

 

It will be running mainly on straights but planning curves of around 1m radius.

 

Should this be enough?

You may struggle to get enough sideplay on the rear driven axle. My approach when building 4-4-0 or 4-4-2 chassis is to effectively build the 4-4 element of the chassis as a 2-6-0 by preventing sideplay in the rear bogie axle and the rear driven axle.  The front driven axle is given a small amount of sideplay and the front of the bogie acts as a pony truck pivoted around the pin locking the rear of the bogie.  A benefit of this is that there is no need to cut clearance holes in the frames for the passage of the rear bogie wheels much as would be the case on the prototype. 

[polybear]

A5/1 and A5/2 Etched Brass Loco Kits are available from Peter Stanger at 52F Models; it's not specifically mentioned on his site but it may be possible to purchase parts (castings etc.) from Peter for those wishing to make modifications to the Sonic model.

HTH

 

edit:  Of course the release of the Sonic Model won't help sales of the 52F kits one bit, which is a real shame for Peter after putting so much work into designing them.

Edited February 25, 2023 by polybear

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, MJI said:

Not sure if I can get a disc in so will probably use the file, will try to remove another 0.5mm of backhead.

 

4-4-0 chassis

 

I am trying to avoid any waddle by not allowing side to side on the front bogie but plenty of sideplay on the rear axle.

 

If I was making my own chassis rather than a Comet kit I would have treated it like a Bo Bo.

 

It will be running mainly on straights but planning curves of around 1m radius.

 

Should this be enough?

Good evening Martin,

 

I remove extra armature length by gripping it tightly with a pair of snipe-nosed pliers, held hard against the end bearing. I then cut off the excess with a slitting disc in a mini drill, as close to the pliers as possible. By gripping with pliers, no pressure is exerted on the end bearing, and they act as a heat sink. 

 

4-4-0 chassis? Any 'side-play' needed is dependent on the minimum radii you're going to try and negotiate (1mm is pretty generous in OO). 

 

For running on Charwelton (which had a minimum radius of 3' 6"), I arranged the chassis for my SE Finecast 'Schools' as a 'flexible' 0-8-0.

 

 

Dead frames ensured no short circuits on curves, and the (coil-sprung) bogie was allowed to move from side to side a slight amount. I effectively reduced the side-play in order to get it round curves with ease. 

 

 

This was essential in order to fit the rear bogie splashers. 

 

Anything less than 3', and it would struggle (it goes round LB with ease, which has a minimum radius of 3' on the main line). 

 

However, the MR/M&GNR bit has a radius down to 2'.

 

 

Which means a bogie on a swung pivot and over-scale cut-outs in the front frames (an inevitable compromise). 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Woodcock29]

5 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon Mick,

 

The lined black LNER locos which I've built which Ian Rathbone and Geoff Haynes have painted for me have red-lined wheels.

 

Knowing their expertise (and ability), I assume it's correct.

 

 

London Road D2.

 

 

DJH Klondike

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

They do look very nice Tony.

 

I remain to be convinced they should have red-lined wheels. I can't find any evidence of this in any books (and I have most Yeadons and a lot of others) other than on the J72s I mentioned previously.

 

The tender on the D2 above is lined incorrectly in my view. The red lining shouldn't go up on to the flare of the side. It should be like the C2 tender. I didn't mention it previously when you posted that photo earlier.

 

Are you still connected to the LNER Soc? Surely someone in that org would know about the wheels?

 

Andrew

Edited February 25, 2023 by Woodcock29
Typo

[uax6]

On 25/02/2023 at 07:48, Tony Teague said:

 

 

Surely someone will come along shortly and say that they are using one or other of these to control their trainset! 🤪

 

LNER-GE of this parish controls one of his trainsets using old Strowger uniselectors and relays, and I have a stack of relays (spares for my exchanges) that might get used at some point...

 

I wish I could get hold of one of those old controllers that had a 3/4 circle of studs, and the handle wiped across them. The studs having resistance wire between them to make it a rheostat. Frank Roomes had three or four of them on Lutton, and they were lovely to use...

 

Andy G

Edited February 26, 2023 by uax6

[jwealleans]

9 hours ago, Woodcock29 said:

Are you still connected to the LNER Soc? Surely someone in that org would know about the wheels?

 

Andrew - these small extracts from a K3 painting specification (LNER Drawing 14162-D) kindly scanned by Dave Jobling:

 

 

 

I read HNG's signature date as September 1928, which I think is after the painting specifications were changed to be less costly?

 

I also had a look at Brian Haresnape's book last night and I wonder if there are variations by Works as well.   The very well known color picture of a clean C4 where the red lining is very clearly visible shows no evidence of it on the wheels (Gorton), but a black and white shot of a V1 tank does seem to me to have it (Doncaster?).

 

Practically, except on  an ex-Works or recently cleaned loco I doubt much lining would be visible.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by jwealleans

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, jwealleans said:

 

Andrew - these small extracts from a K3 painting specification (LNER Drawing 14162-D) kindly scanned by Dave Jobling:

 

 

 

I read HNG's signature date as September 1928, which I think is after the painting specifications were changed to be less costly?

 

I also had a look at Brian Haresnape's book last night and I wonder if there are variations by Works as well.   The very well known color picture of a clean C4 where the red lining is very clearly visible shows no evidence of it on the wheels (Gorton), but a black and white shot of a V1 tank does seem to me to have it (Doncaster?).

 

Practically, except on  an ex-Works or recently cleaned loco I doubt much lining would be visible.

 

 

 

 

Thanks Jonathan,

 

It looks like it's red-lined wheels on some LNER red-lined locos and some without. 

 

I left it to my painting gurus, of course. Since my own black-painted locos, even if they're in LNWR-style lined-black, don't have (nor should have) any lining on their wheels, then I'm happy.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

P.S. I'm posting off Jesse's D2 to Graham, including a from kit Jesse for you.

[Tony Wright]

11 hours ago, Woodcock29 said:

They do look very nice Tony.

 

I remain to be convinced they should have red-lined wheels. I can't find any evidence of this in any books (and I have most Yeadons and a lot of others) other than on the J72s I mentioned previously.

 

The tender on the D2 above is lined incorrectly in my view. The red lining shouldn't go up on to the flare of the side. It should be like the C2 tender. I didn't mention it previously when you posted that photo earlier.

 

Are you still connected to the LNER Soc? Surely someone in that org would know about the wheels?

 

Andrew

Thanks Andrew,

 

I'm in the LNER Society (and the Gresley Society), so I'll make enquiries. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Woodcock29]

4 hours ago, jwealleans said:

 

Andrew - these small extracts from a K3 painting specification (LNER Drawing 14162-D) kindly scanned by Dave Jobling:

 

 

 

I read HNG's signature date as September 1928, which I think is after the painting specifications were changed to be less costly?

 

I also had a look at Brian Haresnape's book last night and I wonder if there are variations by Works as well.   The very well known color picture of a clean C4 where the red lining is very clearly visible shows no evidence of it on the wheels (Gorton), but a black and white shot of a V1 tank does seem to me to have it (Doncaster?).

 

Practically, except on  an ex-Works or recently cleaned loco I doubt much lining would be visible.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for this info Jonathan.

 

I've been looking at passenger tank photos in particular tonight. Maybe I can see red lining on some N2 wheels in Yeadon Vol 25. Before, I thought these lines were the joint between the wheel rims and the tyres or between the wheel centre and the axle.

 

In Vol 16 on V1s, V3s and Thompson L1s (which I must admit I've hardly looked at) its very clear that on freshly shopped V1s and V3s they had red lining on the wheels.

 

In Vol 21 which includes the A5s there is no clear evidence of any red-lined black A5s with red-lined wheels.

 

I've learnt a lot tonight - at least some classes, other than J72s, clearly had red-lined wheels.

 

So the lining on the wheels of my Sonic A5 will remain at least for the moment.

 

Andrew

[Tony Wright]

7 hours ago, Woodcock29 said:

Thanks for this info Jonathan.

 

I've been looking at passenger tank photos in particular tonight. Maybe I can see red lining on some N2 wheels in Yeadon Vol 25. Before, I thought these lines were the joint between the wheel rims and the tyres or between the wheel centre and the axle.

 

In Vol 16 on V1s, V3s and Thompson L1s (which I must admit I've hardly looked at) its very clear that on freshly shopped V1s and V3s they had red lining on the wheels.

 

In Vol 21 which includes the A5s there is no clear evidence of any red-lined black A5s with red-lined wheels.

 

I've learnt a lot tonight - at least some classes, other than J72s, clearly had red-lined wheels.

 

So the lining on the wheels of my Sonic A5 will remain at least for the moment.

 

Andrew

The jury's probably out, Andrew.

 

In my Yeadon's Volume 21, the images are a bit 'grim', so it's impossible to tell if any wheels are lined red or not. 

 

What is clear is that the general application of lining on the BR example...........

 

 

Is very crisp indeed. 

 

As for the lamp (which comes attached) showing a red aspect on the top rear lamp bracket, can anyone hazard a guess? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[thegreenhowards]

On 22/02/2023 at 23:25, Barry Ten said:

Speaking of the spawn of Satan, DCC, my experience has been that locos that run at a reasonable top speed on DC tend to be quite a bit slower on DCC at the maximum setting. For my locos fitted with the DJH GB9 motor/gearbox (the ones with the Mashima motor, not the more recent offerings) the top speed of passenger locos ends up being a fair bit slower than I'd like after I've put in a decoder. Has anyone else had this observation with their locos?

 

Without getting into the ins and outs of different DCC systems, I think at least one (NCE) allows the track voltage to be increased just by selecting a different output voltage from the transformer, but I'm not sure if this applies to the Dynamis I'm currently using for my 4mm stuff.

I’ve been in Scotland for most of last week so a somewhat belated reply.
 

I have noticed that my DCC locos run more slowly on my basic NCE powercab. Not a problem on a shunting or branch line layout, but for my 30’ roundy roundy and my garden O gauge, things were definitely too slow. I upgraded the power supply to 18V with one of these.

 

https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/18v-dc-at-2a-uk-a-medical-grade-power-supply-for-dc-dcc-systems-2-5mm-dc-plug/

 

18V supply means about 16V at the track I believe, probably similar to what Tony has on LB. The difference was very marked, particularly on kit built locos and Heljan diesels in 0 gauge. They now run at what I’d call typical express speeds. This is definitely a worthwhile upgrade for any NCE Powercab users out there. I also have a 5amp booster, but the power supply made the bigger difference.

 

As for large exhibition DCC layouts, what about Heaton Lodge. They don’t come any bigger!

 

Andy

 

 

[Barry Ten]

Thanks for that, Andy. I wonder if the upgrade would work on the Bachmann Dynamis system. That's the one I'm currently using for my 4mm stuff (it would be a bit of a faff to swap over to the NCE Powercab as the latter is very well integrated into my N layout) even though I'm not hugely fond of the Dynamis for various reasons.

 

Perhaps, knowing that others have had the same issue, I can just live with it a bit more easily. My 12 x 11 layout is small enough that I don't really need to run stuff at express speeds, and while it would have been nice to do it now and then, it's not that big a deal compared with the much larger layouts on WW.

[thegreenhowards]

1 hour ago, Barry Ten said:

Thanks for that, Andy. I wonder if the upgrade would work on the Bachmann Dynamis system. That's the one I'm currently using for my 4mm stuff (it would be a bit of a faff to swap over to the NCE Powercab as the latter is very well integrated into my N layout) even though I'm not hugely fond of the Dynamis for various reasons.

 

Perhaps, knowing that others have had the same issue, I can just live with it a bit more easily. My 12 x 11 layout is small enough that I don't really need to run stuff at express speeds, and while it would have been nice to do it now and then, it's not that big a deal compared with the much larger layouts on WW.

Their blurb says it works on Powercab and other similar DCC systems. I’d give them a ring and ask.

[Woodcock29]

4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

The jury's probably out, Andrew.

 

In my Yeadon's Volume 21, the images are a bit 'grim', so it's impossible to tell if any wheels are lined red or not. 

 

What is clear is that the general application of lining on the BR example...........

 

 

Is very crisp indeed. 

 

As for the lamp (which comes attached) showing a red aspect on the top rear lamp bracket, can anyone hazard a guess? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I would guess it's going to disappear! Not much call for bankers on LB.

[Tony Wright]

7 hours ago, Woodcock29 said:

I would guess it's going to disappear! Not much call for bankers on LB.

Good morning Andrew,

 

No call at all - it follows Sturrock's original GNR policy of 'one engine, one train'.

 

The lamp's position, displaying a red aspect, on the top rear lamp bracket is absurd. Any lamp in that position would display a clear aspect, meaning (as was most-usual for a bunker-first A5) a Class B (stopping passenger) train. Any lamp displaying a red aspect at the rear would be placed above either buffer, meaning a light engine running smokebox first, or, as you suggest, a banking engine. 

 

Why lamps are fitted, I don't know (Class A is displayed at the front - highly-unlikely for a BR A5, though the prototype picture up-thread shows just that).

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Tony Wright
to add something

[john new]

11 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

 

….. snipped….

 

As for large exhibition DCC layouts, what about Heaton Lodge. They don’t come any bigger!

 

Andy

 

 

And Pete Waterman’s WCML monsters.

 

[PJT]

11 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

I have noticed that my DCC locos run more slowly on my basic NCE powercab. Not a problem on a shunting or branch line layout, but for my 30’ roundy roundy and my garden O gauge, things were definitely too slow. I upgraded the power supply to 18V with one of these.

 

https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/18v-dc-at-2a-uk-a-medical-grade-power-supply-for-dc-dcc-systems-2-5mm-dc-plug/

 

18V supply means about 16V at the track I believe, probably similar to what Tony has on LB. The difference was very marked, particularly on kit built locos and Heljan diesels in 0 gauge. They now run at what I’d call typical express speeds. This is definitely a worthwhile upgrade for any NCE Powercab users out there. I also have a 5amp booster, but the power supply made the bigger difference.

 

I'd second that.  The upgrade to the 18V supply made a huge difference to the NCE Powercab for me, too.

 

Pete T.

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by PJT
Added NCE Powercab, to qualify