Wright writes.....

[t-b-g]

3 hours ago, Ian Rathbone said:

I painted this Millwall Extension Rly loco (P4 gauge) some time ago. It was scratch built by Paul Berntsen in New Zealand, who solved the wheel problem by making his own!

 

 

Ian R

 

Gorgeous! Mine is for the same chap you painted "Thames" and "St. Pancras" for, so will be in EM. I have a 3D printed body but it isn't very good so I think it will end up scratchbuilt. That way, I think I can make the boiker from 10mm solid brass rod to get some weight that the 3D print simply does not have.

 

It will have friction fit wheels and will be compensated to maximise traction and pick up, which matters in such a tiny loco.

 

I had wondered about trying to make my own wheels. It is something I have never done and I am always willing to try new techniques but the Gibson ones are so close and I can live with a 0.6mm diameter discrepancy.

 

If I can get mine even close to that little beauty, I will be well pleased.

[Tony Wright]

6 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

Gorgeous! Mine is for the same chap you painted "Thames" and "St. Pancras" for, so will be in EM. I have a 3D printed body but it isn't very good so I think it will end up scratchbuilt. That way, I think I can make the boiker from 10mm solid brass rod to get some weight that the 3D print simply does not have.

 

It will have friction fit wheels and will be compensated to maximise traction and pick up, which matters in such a tiny loco.

 

I had wondered about trying to make my own wheels. It is something I have never done and I am always willing to try new techniques but the Gibson ones are so close and I can live with a 0.6mm diameter discrepancy.

 

If I can get mine even close to that little beauty, I will be well pleased.

Good morning Tony,

 

Didn't Alan Gibson produce all-metal driving wheels at one time? I'm sure I saw some (when, where?) years ago, in different diameters.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[polybear]

Just now, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Tony,

 

Didn't Alan Gibson produce all-metal driving wheels at one time? I'm sure I saw some (when, where?) years ago, in different diameters.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Hi Tony,

Yes they did - I have a few destined for kits (a V2 and a Super D); IIRC they have brass centres.

I seem to recall mention some years ago that Alan Gibson was planning to introduce a self-quartering wheel but sadly nothing has ever come of it.

Regards,

Brian

 

[Tony Wright]

11 hours ago, sjp23480 said:

Hi Tony,

 

As the resident DJH A1 "meister" I am starting to dry assemble 60127 Wilson Worsdell and I would like a little advice.

 

When assembling the tender chassis, do you use brass bearings?  

 

I have experimented with the bearings, but it will need a lot of drilling into the axle boxes to get the side frames to seat on the tender base.  I also reckon it would be good to have a little "slop" in the chassis to get round 30' curves and through pointwork.

 

Your comments (or anyone else's) would be most welcome.

 

Best

Steve

 

Good morning Steve,

 

My apologies for the slow response............

 

I do use brass bearings on the tender frames of DJH A1s (and A2s, A2/2s and A2/3s).

 

 

Though it's impossible to tell from this picture. 

 

It's not the best arrangement by DJH (even though it's 'prototypical'); a sub-frame (as on the firm's A3) is better. 

 

I don't use pin-point bearings, but old-fashioned Peco 'cup' bearings. I have a drill bit which is just the right diameter, and open out the bearing holes in the frames with it; so that the cup bearing is a snug fit. There's a mark on the bit which tells me I've drilled in far enough. I drill all eight bearing holes, but only fit the cups into the leading and rear bearing holes (the middle two then just go along for the ride). There is no sideways movement in the leading and rear wheelsets, but enough in the centre two.

 

This method works best on the old 'stub-axle' Jackson/Romford types (of which I still have hundreds). The bearing holes don't need drilling out so much for pin-point axles, though whether pin-point bearings would work, I don't know. 

 

As for assembling the whole thing? I assume you have the statutory three hands?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[billbedford]

9 hours ago, lezz01 said:

601 has also been superseded by other Loctite products. You can still get 601 but as I say there are now different options mainly in strength.

Regards Lez. 

Ye, I should have said 'retainers' rather than 601. 

[t-b-g]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Tony,

 

Didn't Alan Gibson produce all-metal driving wheels at one time? I'm sure I saw some (when, where?) years ago, in different diameters.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

1 hour ago, polybear said:

 

Hi Tony,

Yes they did - I have a few destined for kits (a V2 and a Super D); IIRC they have brass centres.

I seem to recall mention some years ago that Alan Gibson was planning to introduce a self-quartering wheel but sadly nothing has ever come of it.

Regards,

Brian

 

 

A limited range of metal wheels were produced and I think they are still available. They were on the stand at the recent York show. They are intended for split frame mechanisms. I may be wrong but I think they are now supplied as a "kit" with a cast centre and a tyre and the user has to turn the centre to make the tyre a tight fit. I am not sure that they sell very well as the number of people with the machining skills and equipment can't be great compared to those who wish to buy and fit.

 

They would also need fixing to the axles too.

 

I don't think the drivers I need will have been big enough sellers to make the small list of metal types produced, which tend to be the most popular types.

 

There was a set of square ended axles produced as a test and they were fitted to a model of a P2 by Pete Hill.

 

The last time I spoke with Colin about them, he was willing and able to modify the wheel centres but was struggling to get the axles made. He couldn't find a firm that would produce them in small enough quantities at a price that would make them financially viable. To make the price per axle reasonable, he would have to order such a big quantity that the initial outlay and holding that much stock wasn't going to work for him.

[sjp23480]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

As for assembling the whole thing? I assume you have the statutory three hands?

A third hand would be useful, but I am trying to minimise calling on it by bolting the chassis frame to the underside of the tender and then secure the tender side frames.  I guess that, with the wheels in situ they cannot be removed when it comes to painting? 

 

I used to use the old brass cup bearings many years ago but will have to have a rummage to see if I can find my stash!

 

Thanks for your guidance Tony and no problem on the delay to your reply, I don't work nearly as fast as you do!  

 

Thank you

Steve

 

[Chuffer Davies]

1 hour ago, billbedford said:

Ye, I should have said 'retainers' rather than 601. 

Hi Bill,

I’m confused…. Can you restate for clarity please?

 

After your earlier comment, I’m going to do some investigation around Loctite products and superglues.  My concern with superglue is that I’m not sure it would provide enough time for tweaking the quartering (I do it by eye) before it goes off.

Frank

[Tony Wright]

36 minutes ago, sjp23480 said:

A third hand would be useful, but I am trying to minimise calling on it by bolting the chassis frame to the underside of the tender and then secure the tender side frames.  I guess that, with the wheels in situ they cannot be removed when it comes to painting? 

 

I used to use the old brass cup bearings many years ago but will have to have a rummage to see if I can find my stash!

 

Thanks for your guidance Tony and no problem on the delay to your reply, I don't work nearly as fast as you do!  

 

Thank you

Steve

 

Glad to be of help Steve,

 

You're right; the wheels cannot be removed for painting. 

 

Since my big green locos are painted by either Geoff Haynes or Ian Rathbone, I assume they either mask the wheels or just clean off the paint from the tyres afterwards.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Denbridge]

On 29/04/2023 at 21:01, lezz01 said:

The problem with Ultrascale wheels is that they have nickel silver tyres and slip like mad on N/S track. The lead time and price is also not great.

Regards Lez.  

Pendon uses ultrascale wheels almost exclusively and on NS rail. Their locos are often pulling long and heavy trains in the Vale scene which also has gradients off stage. No problems with slipping there.

[MikeParkin65]

51 minutes ago, Chuffer Davies said:

Hi Bill,

I’m confused…. Can you restate for clarity please?

 

After your earlier comment, I’m going to do some investigation around Loctite products and superglues.  My concern with superglue is that I’m not sure it would provide enough time for tweaking the quartering (I do it by eye) before it goes off.

Frank

Plenty of superglues available that have slower curing times to allow for just such adjustments.  Model shops will be able to advise and supply

[D-A-T]

Try Permabond 240.

Its a slow cure high viscosity glue.

Also think of an ‘accelerator’. Useful for speeding up the curing time once you are happy with the quartering. 

[billbedford]

37 minutes ago, Chuffer Davies said:

Hi Bill,

I’m confused…. Can you restate for clarity please?

Loctite 601 is in a class of substances known as retainers. Their intended use is to fix things like ball races into housings and shafts into races. They chemically bond to steel but not other metals or plastics. They harden anaerobically, i.e. in the absence of oxygen. They come in various formulations of different strengths to enable permanent or temporary fixings.  

 

56 minutes ago, Chuffer Davies said:

After your earlier comment, I’m going to do some investigation around Loctite products and superglues.  My concern with superglue is that I’m not sure it would provide enough time for tweaking the quartering (I do it by eye) before it goes off.

 

Cyanoacrylate glues work the opposite way and are set by absorbing water vapour. 

 

 

[Barry Ten]

A friend gave me a small bottle of loctite 601 about ten years ago ... I've only used a few drops of it since but it is very effective for what it does. Most recently I used it to attach a slip clutch to a telescope, which had defeated all other efforts.

[Chuffer Davies]

1 hour ago, D-A-T said:

Try Permabond 240.

Its a slow cure high viscosity glue.

Also think of an ‘accelerator’. Useful for speeding up the curing time once you are happy with the quartering. 

Hi,

thanks for the suggestion but I’m thinking   High viscosity would not be drawn into the wheel/axle interface whereas a low viscosity glue might be better drawn into the joint by capillary action.  What would be your take on this?

Frank

[polybear]

1 hour ago, D-A-T said:

Try Permabond 240.

Its a slow cure high viscosity glue.

Also think of an ‘accelerator’. Useful for speeding up the curing time once you are happy with the quartering. 

 

The data sheet for Permabond states a handling time of 15 -20 seconds?

[Bucoops]

3 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

The data sheet for Permabond states a handling time of 15 -20 seconds?

 

We had a cat that matched that spec.

[lezz01]

Zap produces super glues with different options of viscosity and curing times plus what they call zap kicker which is an accelerator spray and a de-bonder giving you a multitude of options, search for spray activated super glue on the online market place of your choice.

Regards Lez.    

Edited May 2, 2023 by lezz01

[Chas Levin]

16 hours ago, Ian Rathbone said:

I painted this Millwall Extension Rly loco (P4 gauge) some time ago. It was scratch built by Paul Berntsen in New Zealand, who solved the wheel problem by making his own!

 

 

Ian R

Beautiful model Ian; is the "Pear's Soap" lettering also your painting?

[Izzy]

50 minutes ago, Chuffer Davies said:

Hi,

thanks for the suggestion but I’m thinking   High viscosity would not be drawn into the wheel/axle interface whereas a low viscosity glue might be better drawn into the joint by capillary action.  What would be your take on this?

Frank

Such as Loctite 601 aren’t really capillary type glues. You coat the part/s, say the axle, and then insert it into the bore. It takes a while to fully cure. Plenty of time to undertake quartering. Another use is for retaining worms on motor shafts. By twisting the worm on the shaft it enables the glue to ensure the worm fits true and concentric.
Of course it’s important not to get it anywhere near parts that will move, bearings and so forth. Application of heat, say from a soldering iron, will break a joint, if the materials are of course both metal….

 

As an anaerobic glue it never goes off in the bottle. The one given to me by my father-in-law some 30 years ago is still in use. It was a fairly large one on account of it being one given to him by Loctite when he did some testing for them. I won’t bore you with the details, suffice to say that as the works director of a large boilermakers the tests he  carried out involved fairly large lumps of metal and the tale he told involved a 100t SWL overhead crane which he joked nearly came down when he tried to part two bits joined by it (601). So it’s useful (his words) for doing odd jobs such as retaining wheels on axles when an interference fit is not obtained

 

Bob

[lezz01]

24 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Such as Loctite 601 aren’t really capillary type glues. You coat the part/s, say the axle, and then insert it into the bore. It takes a while to fully cure. Plenty of time to undertake quartering. Another use is for retaining worms on motor shafts. By twisting the worm on the shaft it enables the glue to ensure the worm fits true and concentric.
Of course it’s important not to get it anywhere near parts that will move, bearings and so forth. Application of heat, say from a soldering iron, will break a joint, if the materials are of course both metal….

 

As an anaerobic glue it never goes off in the bottle. The one given to me by my father-in-law some 30 years ago is still in use. It was a fairly large one on account of it being one given to him by Loctite when he did some testing for them. I won’t bore you with the details, suffice to say that as the works director of a large boilermakers the tests he  carried out involved fairly large lumps of metal and the tale he told involved a 100t SWL overhead crane which he joked nearly came down when he tried to part two bits joined by it (601). So it’s useful (his words) for doing odd jobs such as retaining wheels on axles when an interference fit is not obtained

 

Bob

My bottle is over 30 years old and still going strong well worth the initial outlay even though it was as cheap as chips by todays standards. As I said there are more options available now but sometimes you can't beat the original product.

Regards Lez.  

[Bucoops]

Loctite retainer - if it's good enough to hold gearboxes together (automotive) then it's good enough for this kind of thing.

 

 

[Dylan Sanderson]

Hi everyone, don’t suppose anyone’s built the DS NER Diagram 116 Autocoach? I’m getting to the finishing stages of mine and I’m struggling to work out where all of the underframe details go, so a few pictures of a finished model would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance 

 

[Bucoops]

41 minutes ago, Dylan Sanderson said:

Hi everyone, don’t suppose anyone’s built the DS NER Diagram 116 Autocoach? I’m getting to the finishing stages of mine and I’m struggling to work out where all of the underframe details go, so a few pictures of a finished model would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance 

 

 

Never model a model but...

 

https://highlandmiscellany.com/tag/etched-kit/

 

 

[sandra]

18 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Sandra,

 

I feel responsible for this. If you can't get it to run to your satisfaction, I'll build a new chassis for it - rigid, Markits, etc, etc..............

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Hello Tony,

 

You’re in no way responsible for this locomotive, the problems were not apparent when I bought it. Your offer is very kind but I think that with persistence I will be able to make the loco work satisfactorily. I will only take you up on the offer if I fail miserably.

 

There are no shortage of A3s on Retford. There are four Hornby conversions and too kitbuilt. Here’s 60061 Pretty Polly on the 7.27 Leeds/Bradford-Kings Cross express. 

This was built and painted by me from a Southeast Finecast kit. The kit is based on an old Wills kit and it is very much of its period (60s?). However I’m quite pleased with the result and it can manage trains of 13 coaches.

 

However the best A3 on Retford is undoubtedly 60108 Gay Crusader. Here she is on the up Heart of Midlothian.

This locomotive was built by Roy many years ago from, I think, a DJH kit. It is certainly one of the best locomotives on the line and a personal favourite.

 

I am also building another A3 from a DJH kit which will be 60063 Isinglass.

 

Sandra