Wright writes.....

[Mark Laidlay]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Probably not Al,

 

There's an interesting piece in the latest issue of Railway Bylines relating to the retirement of a railway horse (called Prince) in 1964, at Stoke on Trent. He then travelled by rail to Peterborough for a well-earned retirement at Abbots Ripton. The Hornby horse looks nothing like him. 

 

From anecdotal evidence provided by the 'Bytham gang' (all, sadly, now deceased), there used to be a shunting horse at Little Bytham as late as the mid-'50s. 

 

 

It lasted longer than the station, but not as long as the goods shed, though all the site to the right is now occupied by four new houses.

 

I did have a model shunting horse on Bytham once. I have no idea who built it, but it consisted of a powered 12T van, with a horse sticking out from on end attached by a piece of flexible wire. It didn't work!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Does your model of Little Bytham show any history of the line to Edenham?

Mark in Melbourne

[Barry O]

Turbomotive update....  well @St Enodoc the lamps are the right colour (BR (LMR)  used black lamps. They look a little large but OK.

 

Back to backs.. checked with my trusty verniers vary between 14.2mm and 14.8mm.. not good!

 

Looks like someone had set the ones on your sample Tony.

 

Baz

[maico]

I don't think the original L&M livestock wagons were in service long enough to be photographed. There may be photos of them lurking elsewhere in later years though.

 

Paris 1838. With an exposure of over a minute only the man standing still having his shoes shined lived on for posterity...

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by maico

[polybear]

51 minutes ago, Barry O said:

Turbomotive update....  well @St Enodoc the lamps are the right colour (BR (LMR)  used black lamps. They look a little large but OK.

 

Back to backs.. checked with my trusty verniers vary between 14.2mm and 14.8mm.. not good!

 

Looks like someone had set the ones on your sample Tony.

 

Baz

 

If it's affecting running I'd return it - it's an expensive loco and such things just shouldn't happen.  It's also a way of flagging up to Hornby that QC isn't up to scratch.

[Tony Wright]

4 hours ago, Barry O said:

Turbomotive update....  well @St Enodoc the lamps are the right colour (BR (LMR)  used black lamps. They look a little large but OK.

 

Back to backs.. checked with my trusty verniers vary between 14.2mm and 14.8mm.. not good!

 

Looks like someone had set the ones on your sample Tony.

 

Baz

Thanks Baz,

 

I didn't check the back-to-backs because both ran perfectly on Bytham - if it ain't broke (sic), don't fix it!), which means they must all be pretty close to 14.5mm. I'll check tomorrow.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

9 hours ago, Mark Laidlay said:

Does your model of Little Bytham show any history of the line to Edenham?

Mark in Melbourne

Good evening Mark,

 

Apart from the engine house/stable, none. Unless you include the Willoughby, which (as The Steam Plough) was Lord Willoughby's booking office/waiting rooms for his Edenham Railway. 

 

The embankments and bridge across the West Glen River can still be seen crossing the valley, as can the three arch bridge carrying the Witham Road, but all these survivors are off-scene. 

 

With the quadrupling of the main line in 1911, all the original buildings (apart from the Edenham Railway's engine house) were demolished, as were the wagon turntables to link the two systems (which had been out of use for at least 30 years!). How/why that building survived, I don't know, but the adjacent goods shed and railway cottages were just built beside it. 

 

Interestingly, when the M&GNR was built in 1897, the girder bridge crossing the main line was built to sufficient length to straddle at least five tracks - forward thinking? 

 

Ah, those delights of modelling an actual prototype. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

I had a visit from three members of the 3mm Society today. Martin, Martin and John, thank you so much for a great day's operation of Little Bytham, your stimulating company and your generous donations to CRUK.

 

John Sutton (the Editor of the Society's Journal) brought along four delightful 3mm locos for me to photograph.....

 

 

Two scratch-built 0-6-0s.

 

 

A Pro-Scale B1 shrunk down from a 4mm kit.

 

 

And a scratch-built D11.

 

All these locos operate on his delightful Southwell Central, and all are wonderful examples of creative, self-reliant and highly-skilled model-making. How refreshing at a time dominated by (excellent though it might be) RTR!

 

 

 

 

[Barry O]

3 hours ago, polybear said:

 

If it's affecting running I'd return it - it's an expensive loco and such things just shouldn't happen.  It's also a way of flagging up to Hornby that QC isn't up to scratch.

Nope.. dead easy to fix for me a battle hardened veteran..

 

Probable fine on Hornby track...

 

Baz

[jimwal]

14 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

The horse is a bit 'rubbery', and won't stand up without a dab of superglue.

 

Hornby research beyond our expectations!

 

Perhaps they discovered the prototypes bread for their rubberised horsehair that was often suggested for modelling hedges.

[jimwal]

1 hour ago, Barry O said:

Nope.. dead easy to fix for me a battle hardened veteran..

 

Probable fine on Hornby track...

 

Baz

Easier too if your model shop is a fair distance or it was mail order/online.

[Chamby]

On the subject of working lamps on steam locomotives, I think Hornby are trying to cater for several markets with one product, for reasons that I can understand.  

 

The single bulb with light conducting plastic installation is commonly used on continental HO scale models.

 

It’s easily fixable, as has been mentioned.  More fastidious modellers (as opposed to collectors or ‘train set’ operators) can simply either remove or modify them.  I have no use for ‘Turbomotive’ on my layout but would probably fit a resistor to dim the over-brightness, and paint the lamp front with yellow lacquer (or varnish tinted with yellow paint) to correct the colour.  If they continue to offend, simply remove them and fit cast Lanarkshire Models non-working ones.

 

For commercial reasons, manufacturers have to cater for more than one sub-set of the broad spectrum that covers our hobby, especially with one-off prototypes such as Turbomotive that inevitably have a more niche application..

[Tony Wright]

14 hours ago, Barry O said:

Nope.. dead easy to fix for me a battle hardened veteran..

 

Probable fine on Hornby track...

 

Baz

Good afternoon Baz,

 

Whether the Turbomotives I received from Hornby had been 'examined' beforehand, I have no idea. But, as mentioned, the b-t-bs on both were spot-on 14.5mm...........

 

 

This the best back-to-back gauge I've ever seen (machined from a mild steel block for me by a mate at WMRC, who managed an engineering firm), not only does it check individual OO b-t-bs but also those on adjacent axles at the same time. In the past, I've had chassis (both loco and stock) where individual b-t-bs have been perfect, but not all in line, so a vehicle crabs or even derails (though, having said that, I've also had wagons whose wheels describe a parallelogram, yet still run. However, the above arrangement is most-desirable). 

 

For those who don't have engineering mates...........

 

 

 

A Markits OO back-to-back gauge proved the wheels to be set correctly at source (as they were with 6202). The gauge won't slide on any further because of the tender's brake rigging and the bogie's frames. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

13 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon Baz,

 

Whether the Turbomotives I received from Hornby had been 'examined' beforehand, I have no idea. But, as mentioned, the b-t-bs on both were spot-on 14.5mm...........

 

 

This the best back-to-back gauge I've ever seen (machined from a mild steel block for me by a mate at WMRC, who managed an engineering firm), not only does it check individual OO b-t-bs but also those on adjacent axles at the same time. In the past, I've had chassis (both loco and stock) where individual b-t-bs have been perfect, but not all in line, so a vehicle crabs or even derails (though, having said that, I've also had wagons whose wheels describe a parallelogram, yet still run. However, the above arrangement is most-desirable). 

 

For those who don't have engineering mates...........

 

 

 

A Markits OO back-to-back gauge proved the wheels to be set correctly at source (as they were with 6202). The gauge won't slide on any further because of the tender's brake rigging and the bogie's frames. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

At the risk of being cynical, and despite owning a couple of hundred of them over the years, I have never encountered a Hornby loco with more than three axles on which every b-t-b was consistent, let alone all dead on specification.  

 

Unless Hornby has suddenly started using proper QC rather than QA sampling, I'm very much of the opinion that the review samples must have been fine-tuned before being sent out. 

 

John

Edited October 26, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[Barry O]

I use some vernier..  machined items are OK but can be misleading..

Baz

[Tony Wright]

7 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

At the risk of being cynical, and despite owning a couple of hundred of them over the years, I have never encountered a Hornby loco with more than three axles on which every b-t-b was consistent, let alone all dead on specification.  

 

Unless Hornby has suddenly started using proper QC rather than QA sampling, I'm very much of the opinion that the review samples must have been fine-tuned before being sent out. 

 

John

Good evening John,

 

With very few exceptions, all the more-recent Hornby locos I've reviewed in the last few years have worked perfectly on Little Bytham without need of re-adjustment to their back-to-backs.

 

This requires running through Peco pointwork, and points/crossings/slips built in OO FS (a misnomer, I know) by Norman Solomon. Some of them have been tried on other OO systems without any need of alteration (though I'll add that I often change the pony/bogie wheels if I retain the models; not because of their b-t-bs, but for appearance's sake, except where they're painted green). 

 

A few examples..............

 

 

A modified A2/2 (weathered by Geoff Haynes).

 

A modified Hornby A3.

 

 

A modified A4 (repainted by Ian Rathbone).

 

 

A modified B1 (weathered by Tom Foster).

 

 

A modified Hornby K1.

 

 

And two modified Hornby O1s.

 

All of these have run perfectly through all Bytham's pointwork, without adjustment.

 

Maybe my track isn't as 'scale' as I think!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Tony Wright
to add something

[Jesse Sim]

2 hours ago, Barry O said:

I use some vernier..  machined items are OK but can be misleading..

Baz

If it’s a digital one, could that not also be misleading? 
 

 

[Buhar]

1 hour ago, Jesse Sim said:

If it’s a digital one, could that not also be misleading? 
 

 

You could do something similar to an electrician's test equipment test.  Measure a known item, measure the B2B, re-measure the calibration item.

 

Alan

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening John,

 

With very few exceptions, all the more-recent Hornby locos I've reviewed in the last few years have worked perfectly on Little Bytham without need of re-adjustment to their back-to-backs.

 

This requires running through Peco pointwork, and points/crossings/slips built in OO FS (a misnomer, I know) by Norman Solomon. Some of them have been tried on other OO systems without any need of alteration (though I'll add that I often change the pony/bogie wheels if I retain the models; not because of their b-t-bs, but for appearance's sake, except where they're painted green). 

 

A few examples..............

 

 

A modified A2/2 (weathered by Geoff Haynes).

 

A modified Hornby A3.

 

 

A modified A4 (repainted by Ian Rathbone).

 

 

A modified B1 (weathered by Tom Foster).

 

 

A modified Hornby K1.

 

 

And two modified Hornby O1s.

 

All of these have run perfectly through all Bytham's pointwork, without adjustment.

 

Maybe my track isn't as 'scale' as I think!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

Good Evening Tony,

 

It may well be that Hornby b-t-b's have been more consistent in recent times, but I've only bought about half a dozen over the past four years, I haven't had a (home) layout to test them on most of that time, and there hasn't seemed much point in buying anything I didn't want 100%. Sorry, but that includes anything with a number beginning with a 6! 😉 I've bought more Hornby stuff s/h, though, catching up on periods where they were releasing SR locos faster than I could keep up!

 

Almost all of my Air-smoothed WCs and Rebuilt MNs (about 30 in total) had to be eased, generally being between 14.1 and 14.4mm  on the driving wheels with similar variations on the bogies and tenders. 

 

Driving wheels on the rebuilt WCs (mainly) seem a lot better as do the S15s, though the tender wheels tended to vary a bit and the Arthurs were a bit random too. I only have one Nelson and one air-smoothed MN which are both fine on the rolling road, but haven't yet been on a layout.

 

John

Edited October 26, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[Michael Edge]

00 standards are fairly forgiving (sloppy?) when it comes to back to backs, mostly anything between 14.3 and 14.6 will run safely. It does get a bit tighter with EM-2 (or 00SF) with 16.3mm gauge through the crossings which I have on Wentworth Junction and its fiddle yard - quite a few rtr back to backs have had to be altered if hey are to run on this.

[St Enodoc]

7 hours ago, Barry O said:

I use some vernier..  machined items are OK but can be misleading..

Baz

Check the gauges with the verynears like a good mechanical engineer (do as I say, not as I do...).

Edited October 27, 2023 by St Enodoc

[St Enodoc]

4 hours ago, Buhar said:

You could do something similar to an electrician's test equipment test.  Measure a known item, measure the B2B, re-measure the calibration item.

 

Alan

That's exactly how it's done in tool rooms, of course, but for our purposes I think it's very unlikely that a set of verynears that is treated with care would go out of calibration to the extent that it would affect what we are doing in model railway land.

[Barry O]

4 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Check the gauges with the verynears like a good mechanical engineer (do as I say, not as I do...).

Yes I remember those days in the labs in Leeds.. that's why I became a c9ntrol engineer!

 

Baz

[Tony Wright]

11 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Good Evening Tony,

 

It may well be that Hornby b-t-b's have been more consistent in recent times, but I've only bought about half a dozen over the past four years, I haven't had a (home) layout to test them on most of that time, and there hasn't seemed much point in buying anything I didn't want 100%. Sorry, but that includes anything with a number beginning with a 6! 😉 I've bought more Hornby stuff s/h, though, catching up on periods where they were releasing SR locos faster than I could keep up!

 

Almost all of my Air-smoothed WCs and Rebuilt MNs (about 30 in total) had to be eased, generally being between 14.1 and 14.4mm  on the driving wheels with similar variations on the bogies and tenders. 

 

Driving wheels on the rebuilt WCs (mainly) seem a lot better as do the S15s, though the tender wheels tended to vary a bit and the Arthurs were a bit random too. I only have one Nelson and one air-smoothed MN which are both fine on the rolling road, but haven't yet been on a layout.

 

John

Good morning John,

 

Though I've reviewed umpteen Hornby SR locos, with only one exception have I photographed them on Little Bytham (I assure you it's not prejudice, though I've not photographed any Hornby GWR locos on my trainset! They've all run on LB, but I've only taken studio pictures of them).

 

 

This is the SR one; Hornby's Hornby Dublo original MN.

 

 

Which ran superbly.

 

 

As did its companion Hornby Dublo 'Princess Coronation'.

 

Both the shots on the layout were taken to show how much these metal-bodied locos could pull (proved by a video). 

 

 

Though I changed the bogie wheels, the drivers and tender wheels were as-supplied. It was further improved by my fitting scale 'plates and Geoff Haynes' varnishing. It now runs on Graham Nicholas' Shap. 

 

Though most of the following Hornby locos running on Little Bytham have been detailed/altered/weathered, none of the b-t-bs needed altering to run on Little Bytham. Most are no longer my property (many never were), but I'm sure they still give good service on the layouts of their owners.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In admission, I had great difficulty trying to run this Hornby-branded 'Big Boy' (ex-Rivarossi?) on Little Bytham. Not because its b-t-bs were 'out', but because it wanted to assault platform edges and overbridges, even though it's HO! 

 

In the past, any Hornby rolling stock wheels were immediately removed and thrown away, were I to use a vehicle fitted with them. 

 

However,

 

 

 

now the firm's rolling stock wheels run superbly (don't look too closely at my Tri-ang/Roxey conversion behind, because it's over half a century old!).

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Tony Wright
clumsy grammar

[LNER4479]

31 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Both the shots on the layout were taken to show how much these metal-bodied locos could pull (proved by a video). 

 

 

Though I changed the bogie wheels, the drivers and tender wheels were as-supplied. It was further improved by my fitting scale 'plates and Geoff Haynes' varnishing. It now runs on Graham Nicholas' Shap. 

 

 

Though there are limits (especially when tried out on a man's railway):

 

 

Same train, with an original Hornby-Dublo Duchess (63 years young):

 

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by LNER4479

[Tony Wright]

17 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

 

Though there are limits (especially when tried out on a man's railway):

 

 

Same train, with an original Hornby-Dublo Duchess (63 years young):

 

 

Good morning Graham,

 

How strange, because I had 20 (mainly metal) carriages behind that loco (on the flat, mind). 

 

I don't know if there's space inside 46252 to add more ballast. The original HD 'Duchess' is such a great big lump of mazac that I'm not surprised it pulled 15 cars up Shap!

 

Regards,

 

Tony.