Wright writes.....

[Clive Mortimore]

4 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

The passage of a slow 4W wagon mineral haul over a point crossing is deeply pleasing. Clatter-clatter, circa sixty repeats of donk-donk, concluded by donk --donk. 

I know what you mean.

 

Trainspotting on the end of platform 2 at Bedford Midland Road, a Peak with a very long train of empty 16 tonners was slowly going donk-donk, donk-donk, followed by donk --donk and a shower of tea and tea leaves. The guard must have known he was at the end of the platform and threw the dregs out his flask, he hadn't spotted the spotters. He didn't 'alf look embarrassed.  

[APOLLO]

Nice prototype clickety clack here plus a Deltic !!

 

 

Brit15

[stewartingram]

Someone has to say it. An improvement on DCC sound.

Edited November 21, 2023 by stewartingram

[john new]

4 hours ago, APOLLO said:

Nice prototype clickety clack here plus a Deltic !!

 

 

Brit15

Was that the trip when its' exhaust caught fire at Berwick?

[Tony Wright]

3 hours ago, stewartingram said:

Someone has to say it. An improvement on DCC sound.

Good evening Stewart,

 

I remain to be convinced about the merits of DCC sound, especially relating to 'steam locomotives'. Last week, I shot some video footage of Hornby's latest DCC sound-fitted 9F on Gilbert Barnatt's Peterborough North (thanks to him for accommodating this). There's no doubt the various sounds were audible, but the basic 'chuffs' still sounded 'tinny' to me. It could well be that neither of us fully understood how to get the best from all the myriad noises (the fireman cooking his breakfast on the shovel?), but, to me, I don't think sound adds to 'realism'. Perhaps a much more-expensive sound decoder might change my mind. Anyway, individual opinions can be formed when my footage is edited and put on the net. 

 

Regarding my own trainset, since DCC in any form will never be countenanced, then artificial sound is irrelevant. I love the natural mechanical sounds my (usually lengthy and very heavy) trains make as they roar by. Others have said the same, too.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[coronach]

8 hours ago, coronach said:

Here is an example 

A good old black beetle motor grinding away propelling the DMU on jointed track. Completely analogue

[Northmoor]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Stewart,

 

I remain to be convinced about the merits of DCC sound, especially relating to 'steam locomotives'. Last week, I shot some video footage of Hornby's latest DCC sound-fitted 9F on Gilbert Barnatt's Peterborough North (thanks to him for accommodating this). There's no doubt the various sounds were audible, but the basic 'chuffs' still sounded 'tinny' to me. It could well be that neither of us fully understood how to get the best from all the myriad noises (the fireman cooking his breakfast on the shovel?), but, to me, I don't think sound adds to 'realism'. Perhaps a much more-expensive sound decoder might change my mind. Anyway, individual opinions can be formed when my footage is edited and put on the net. 

 

Regarding my own trainset, since DCC in any form will never be countenanced, then artificial sound is irrelevant. I love the natural mechanical sounds my (usually lengthy and very heavy) trains make as they roar by. Others have said the same, too.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Whenever we've debated sound on here before I've always made the same point: DCC sound focusses wholly on the locomotive, when the sound of the railway is so much broader than that.  That is what makes Peter Handford's recordings so superb; they are an audio record of a period of time decades ago, often including the sounds of railwaymen discussing something-or-other, signal wires clinking, wind in the grass, birds singing and the varied sound of different wagons when a freight train passes the recorder. 

I've seen a few DCC layouts - all too often the stereotype small urban diesel depot - where instead of the sounds of the locomotives, it would be much more realistic if they'd recorded the sound of a reasonably busy street and played it back on a five minute loop.  There was a superb WW1 layout "Up the Line" which did exactly this, where the sound track was ambient noise (so birdsong and distant gunfire) and NOT from the trains.

[johndon]

A friend has been doing a lot of work on a Hornby Q6 with sound and it's the first sound fitted loco that I've witnessed, in 4mm scale at least, where the bass is such that you can 'feel' the loco approaching.  It might be on South Pelaw at Warley although I suspect that the effect will be largely lost in a large hall.

[Barry Ten]

Richard Maunsell didn't have railway modellers uppermost in his mind when he designed his engines, but I don't think they look right without the front steps ... unfortunately they are often a pain if your layout has train-set curves.

 

 

Hence a compromise, plastic steps fitted (Bachmann didn't provide any with their Lord Nelson) but allowed to adopt a mildly jaunty angle if necessary. Once painted, I still think they look somewhat better than no steps at all. I imagine it's possible to set up some kind of side-control on this type of bogie, but none of my efforts have been successful. As it is now, the LN manages the slightly tighter radii on my inner loop (seen just exiting the tightest section) and has room to breathe on the outer loop. I also managed to fit the front steps on Hornby's more recent LNs.

[60027Merlin]

1 hour ago, Northmoor said:

Whenever we've debated sound on here before I've always made the same point: DCC sound focusses wholly on the locomotive, when the sound of the railway is so much broader than that.  That is what makes Peter Handford's recordings so superb; they are an audio record of a period of time decades ago, often including the sounds of railwaymen discussing something-or-other, signal wires clinking, wind in the grass, birds singing and the varied sound of different wagons when a freight train passes the recorder. 

I've seen a few DCC layouts - all too often the stereotype small urban diesel depot - where instead of the sounds of the locomotives, it would be much more realistic if they'd recorded the sound of a reasonably busy street and played it back on a five minute loop.  There was a superb WW1 layout "Up the Line" which did exactly this, where the sound track was ambient noise (so birdsong and distant gunfire) and NOT from the trains.

 

As you write, Peter Handford's recordings are superb.

 

One of his greatest LPs is The Railway to Riccarton. He had the gift to be able to deliver the wonderful natural sounds of the environment together with sounds of the complete trains bringing them all together as one on an atmospheric railway, pure magic!

 

An enjoyable hour or so can be had sitting near the speakers with the record player on a high volume accompanied with a glass of the amber nectar to hand. The Waverley Route, sorely missed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[coronach]

33 minutes ago, 60027Merlin said:

 

As you write, Peter Handford's recordings are superb.

 

One of his greatest LPs is The Railway to Riccarton. He had the gift to be able to deliver the wonderful natural sounds of the environment together with sounds of the complete trains bringing them all together as one on an atmospheric railway, pure magic!

 

An enjoyable hour or so can be had sitting near the speakers with the record player on a high volume accompanied with a glass of the amber nectar to hand. The Waverley Route, sorely missed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes indeed and as is typical of Handford’s style, the first track on side two starts with birdsong to set the scene. In it a V2 hauled goods train restarted from a signal at Stobbs, banked by 78047 - the 2MT recently released by Hornby :)
 

I’m sure side one will also be on YouTube 

Edited November 21, 2023 by coronach

[TrevorP1]

A lot of the Peter Handford collection is still available as a download. 
 

Transacord Digital
 

 

[LNER4479]

My favourites are the recording of two V2 hauled trains in the early hours at Steele Road. The first is in complete charge of its train and storms past quite confidently. The second one? Oh dear! A more 'off beat' loco it would be difficult to find. As if that wasn't enough to contend with, the driver is clearly struggling with the loco keeping its feet before it goes into an almighty slip more or less right alongside where Peter Handford was positioned. Somehow, the loco recovers just in time to avoid coming to a halt and staggers on uncertainly towards Riccarton. Spell-binding stuff.

 

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by LNER4479

[St Enodoc]

8 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

it goes into an almighty slip more or less right alongside where Peter Handford was positioned

Coincidence?

[coronach]

5 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Coincidence?

6 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Coincidence?  I think so- the loco had already slipped on the approach to the station and is just about keeping its feet until a mighty slip just having passed the microphone.  The recording is actually on the album ‘Trains in the night’; Waverley Route recordings having been published on several albums other than ‘The railway to Riccarton’.  

 

[Bucoops]

10 hours ago, TrevorP1 said:

A lot of the Peter Handford collection is still available as a download. 
 

Transacord Digital
 

 

 

Ah, the last few times I have been to the site, no sales were available but it's good to see they are back :)

[Mike 84C]

Having been caravanning in the Borders area several times and hope to go again!  Always seem to find a fresh bit of the Waverley route to look at.  Two questions go through my mind, how did the Waverley route ever make money  and it must have been a very, very difficult route to operate and for the crew's work over. My hat goes off to them, iron horses ridden by men of iron.

   Love to see it reopen back to Carlisle, wont hold my breath!

[LNER4479]

On 19/11/2023 at 15:01, Tony Wright said:

Was it [Grantham, first photo session] really that long ago, Graham?

 

Did you abandon the idea of the cenotaph coaling stage? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Apologies for delayed response, Tony - the thread has - ever - moved on!

 

At the time, I was undecided re coaling stage or coaling tower. I was concerned that the tower might just be too obstructive at the very front of the layout.

 

In the end, inspiration arrived in the form of a 1936 photo of the shed. There, in the background, is the coaling tower in the early stages of construction. That gave me the idea for the cameo that now exists on the layout - as the tower was constructed 1936-37, then it was right in the middle of our target timeframe (1935-1939) so it was a bit of a 'best of both' solution.

 

(your pic, from Doncaster 2022 shoot)

 

I might get the chance to build a true 'Cenotaph' coaling tower as part of Mark Allatt's Doncaster layout. Don't hold yer breath just yet, though!

 

[Tony Wright]

15 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

Richard Maunsell didn't have railway modellers uppermost in his mind when he designed his engines, but I don't think they look right without the front steps ... unfortunately they are often a pain if your layout has train-set curves.

 

 

Hence a compromise, plastic steps fitted (Bachmann didn't provide any with their Lord Nelson) but allowed to adopt a mildly jaunty angle if necessary. Once painted, I still think they look somewhat better than no steps at all. I imagine it's possible to set up some kind of side-control on this type of bogie, but none of my efforts have been successful. As it is now, the LN manages the slightly tighter radii on my inner loop (seen just exiting the tightest section) and has room to breathe on the outer loop. I also managed to fit the front steps on Hornby's more recent LNs.

Good afternoon Al,

 

You're right - those big Southern front steps are a real problem with regard to negotiating tight radii...........

 

RTR manufacturers, of course, leave them off (though they're usually supplied for purchasers to fit).

 

 

Dapol's N in N.

 

 

And Schools in N.

 

 

Hornby's OO Lord Nelson.

 

 

And Schools.

 

When I built my SEF OO Schools (painted by Ian Rathbone)..........

 

 

I arranged the bogie so that it had almost no swing, meaning it never touched the steps, and I could incorporate the bogie splashers as well. It's shorter, of course, than a Nelson. 

 

 

I made it to run on Charwelton.

 

Interestingly, one spectator thought its appearance was 'nonsense' (though it did actually run on the GC for a week or more). I wonder what that same spectator thinks of blue diesels running through Charwelton now? 

 

Another loco I made for Charwelton............

 

 

 

Was this Comet Caprotti Black Five (which I also painted). Despite it having front steps, there were no clearance problems between them and the bogie wheels. 

 

 

Which is more than could be said for this DJH 'Semi' (which now runs on Shap). I had to 'bend' the steps outwards slightly to prevent fouling. Geoff Haynes painted it.

 

Even bending the front steps outwards......

 

 

On this Millholme H16 I built for a friend (painted by Geoff Haynes as well), didn't prevent problems on tighter radii; so much so that they might have to go!

 

 

I've yet to reach the front steps stage with this Jamieson Lord Nelson I'm building.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

14 hours ago, coronach said:

Yes indeed and as is typical of Handford’s style, the first track on side two starts with birdsong to set the scene. In it a V2 hauled goods train restarted from a signal at Stobbs, banked by 78047 - the 2MT recently released by Hornby :)
 

I’m sure side one will also be on YouTube 

Thanks for that.

 

Very evocative!

 

I wonder if the image for Side One will be the right way round?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[coronach]

Here is side one. The track of a B1 climbing to Whitrope illustrates the long slog faced by the footplate crew

Edited November 22, 2023 by coronach

[MikeParkin65]

53 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon Al,

 

You're right - those big Southern front steps are a real problem with regard to negotiating tight radii...........

 

RTR manufacturers, of course, leave them off (though they're usually supplied for purchasers to fit).

 

 

Dapol's N in N.

 

 

And Schools in N.

 

 

Hornby's OO Lord Nelson.

 

 

And Schools.

 

When I built my SEF OO Schools (painted by Ian Rathbone)..........

 

 

I arranged the bogie so that it had almost no swing, meaning it never touched the steps, and I could incorporate the bogie splashers as well. It's shorter, of course, than a Nelson. 

 

 

I made it to run on Charwelton.

 

Interestingly, one spectator thought its appearance was 'nonsense' (though it did actually run on the GC for a week or more). I wonder what that same spectator thinks of blue diesels running through Charwelton now? 

 

Another loco I made for Charwelton............

 

 

 

Was this Comet Caprotti Black Five (which I also painted). Despite it having front steps, there were no clearance problems between them and the bogie wheels. 

 

 

Which is more than could be said for this DJH 'Semi' (which now runs on Shap). I had to 'bend' the steps outwards slightly to prevent fouling. Geoff Haynes painted it.

 

Even bending the front steps outwards......

 

 

On this Millholme H16 I built for a friend (painted by Geoff Haynes as well), didn't prevent problems on tighter radii; so much so that they might have to go!

 

 

I've yet to reach the front steps stage with this Jamieson Lord Nelson I'm building.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

Interesting that the front steps on the DJH Princess Coronation cause problems - the Hornby version (both the 2001 model and the most recent one) will negotiate 36 inch curves (my minimum, they may well do tighter) with the front steps fitted without issue. That SEF Schools looks the bees knees by the way - lovely natural patina. 

[31A]

Regarding front footsteps, I've sometimes had to resort to some subterfuge, the Hornby B1 being a case in point.

 

I removed some material from the leading edge of the step (where it butts up against the buffer beam) and also chamfered the inner rear edge of the lower step, so that it just clears the front bogie wheel on curves.  The loco will now go round the sharpest curves on my layout, which are the curved sides ob Peco Code 75 Double Slips.

 

I don't know how similar this would be to a "Nelson", but of note, the B1s footplate tapers inwards towards the buffer beam so the steps are closer together than they might be on some locos.

 

Hopefully this is not too noticeable!

 

 

[MikeParkin65]

1 minute ago, 31A said:

Regarding front footsteps, I've sometimes had to resort to some subterfuge, the Hornby B1 being a case in point.

 

I removed some material from the leading edge of the step (where it butts up against the buffer beam) and also chamfered the inner rear edge of the lower step, so that it just clears the front bogie wheel on curves.  The loco will now go round the sharpest curves on my layout, which are the curved sides ob Peco Code 75 Double Slips.

 

I don't know how similar this would be to a "Nelson", but of note, the B1s footplate tapers inwards towards the buffer beam so the steps are closer together than they might be on some locos.

 

Hopefully this is not too noticeable!

 

 

Interesting  - I find the Hornby B1 will navigate 36 inch with the steps but not with the draincocks fitted

[Tony Wright]

43 minutes ago, 31A said:

Regarding front footsteps, I've sometimes had to resort to some subterfuge, the Hornby B1 being a case in point.

 

I removed some material from the leading edge of the step (where it butts up against the buffer beam) and also chamfered the inner rear edge of the lower step, so that it just clears the front bogie wheel on curves.  The loco will now go round the sharpest curves on my layout, which are the curved sides ob Peco Code 75 Double Slips.

 

I don't know how similar this would be to a "Nelson", but of note, the B1s footplate tapers inwards towards the buffer beam so the steps are closer together than they might be on some locos.

 

Hopefully this is not too noticeable!

 

 

Good afternoon Steve,

 

Perhaps an easier solution might be to exchange the Hornby B1 bogie wheels with something nearer scale?

 

 

Absolutely no clearance issues with the front steps here, or the drain cocks...........

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Tony Wright
to add something