Wright writes.....

[St Enodoc]

3 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

As I've said before (this topic seems to come round about once a year), I enjoy making things but, as for all of us, time is limited - so if something is available ready to use at a sensible price, I'll buy it and "bank" the time saved to make something that isn't.

I should expand this by saying that I have, on occasions, bought items second-hand and ready to use that have been made by somebody else (not counting items that others have kindly built for me as part of the horse-trading beloved by Tony).

[BMacdermott]

6 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

As I've said before (this topic seems to come round about once a year), I enjoy making things but, as for all of us, time is limited - so if something is available ready to use at a sensible price, I'll buy it and "bank" the time saved to make something that isn't.

 

You're not paying attention - it's much more frequent than once a year!🙂

 

Brian

[St Enodoc]

10 minutes ago, BMacdermott said:

 

You're not paying attention - it's much more frequent than once a year!🙂

 

Brian

I was trying to be polite! Obviously not one of my strong suits...

[gr.king]

9 hours ago, lezz01 said:

Yes but once you've made the master and the silicon moulds... 

Regards Lez.  

 

I don't think you'd make viable mould from the non-metallic element silicon. Apart from an e, there's a world of difference between the element, and one of its potentially very suitable, flexible, silicone polymers.

Edited January 28 by gr.king

[billbedford]

10 hours ago, lezz01 said:

Yes but once you've made the master and the silicon moulds it's just a case of building a wax tree and a casting mould, burning out the wax and pouring the melt. Then you remove the casting mould with acid. You can do a couple of hundred at a time even more. Jewellers do it all the time, the hard bit is making the master.

 

The majority of commercial jewellery and much dental casting is now done using printed waxes, though I know of one company that uses aluminium moulds for high-end engineering work. The main problem with lost wax casting is that the post-processing is more labour-intensive than masak die casting. 

[Red Devil]

3 hours ago, billbedford said:

 

The majority of commercial jewellery and much dental casting is now done using printed waxes, though I know of one company that uses aluminium moulds for high-end engineering work. The main problem with lost wax casting is that the post-processing is more labour-intensive than masak die casting. 

Trucksides on this Leeds Pivotal car were 3d printed in wax then cast in brass, I knew that any plastic ones were going to be susceptible to damage, again as per up the thread you can do 3d print 'kits' in the correct materials if you choose to, often it comes down to cost and what either you or your market is prepared to pay.

 

Rest of it is a 3d print body, whitemetal stairs, controller etc. Brass and nickel silver wire where appropriate. There was an etched kit of the same prototype but I went my way because it worked for me.

Edited January 28 by Red Devil

[RThompson]

On 26/01/2024 at 17:39, Compound2632 said:

 

Now, I'm no engine-builder - wagons are my comfort zone. As a teenager, I started plastic kit building with no instruction or advice and gradually learned by trial and error. But the key thing was, there were Ratio wagon kits on the shelves in my local model shop. If I hadn't seen them there, I would have been unaware of the existence of such things.

I can relate to this, aged 38 now. I was very lucky to grow up with a few decent model shops local to me in South London, only Janes Trains exists now but did stock 2nd hand plastic wagon kits as well as occasionally metal locomotive kits.

 

BEC models used to stock all sorts from Ratio to Dapol for plastic wagon kits (as well as the Dapol locomotive kits) and as a 8 year old, learnt at my own accord to build them, plastic wagon kits are certainly cheaper purchase cost than rtr now. But I do wish I knew what BSL coach kits was back then and bought them!

 

I think the emphasis to begineers of any age, is to give a try and learn from your mistakes when they are made (I melted part of a ratio gounded coach roof and kept adding glue to it to try to build it it, not realising at the time the glue works by melting the plastic! Oh and about model filler which only came into use quite some years after)

 

If it goes wrong, yes it may be something like £10 potentially gone but in the grand scheme of things, is not the end of the world and try again, and save those wheels and bearings for use later on for something else.

 

When I go to various areas for work, I do take some plastic wagon kits to build to keep me occupied either when sat on the bus on stanby or in the hotel if working away for a period.

 

I do try to find and visit various model shops where ever I go now, however it is very surprising that very few stock any 4mm scale let alone any other scale plastic wagon kits, plenty of building and accessory kits though. 

 

I have learnt to ask as sometimes they can be hidden as I've found out in a few shops and a consequence got a fair bit of trade from me for those kits just sitting about!

 

But overall, model shops are more likely to gain custom from me with kits than rtr, both for my Satisfaction but also partially a cost factor also.

Edited January 28 by RThompson

[lezz01]

2 hours ago, gr.king said:

 

I don't think you'd make viable mould from the non-metallic element silicon. Apart from an e, there's a world of difference between the element, and one of its potentially very suitable, flexible, silicone polymers.

Whilst it's very kind of you to correct my errors in English I would just like to point out that I'm dyslexic and find such correction offensive. 

Regards Lez.

[gr.king]

44 minutes ago, lezz01 said:

Whilst it's very kind of you to correct my errors in English I would just like to point out that I'm dyslexic and find such correction offensive. 

Regards Lez.

Point taken, and in that case, apology offered. The trouble of course is that the omission of an e is more than a simple spelling error if it turns the meaning of the word into something that is quite different, and some people quite clearly don't know that silicon and silicone are vastly different substances, confusing mis-pronunciation of those two words also being common. Either the mis-spelling or the  pronunciation can sometimes leave one wondering what on earth the intended meaning was. A totally different name for the polymers formed by silicon would have been more sensible, but we're stuck with the existing one.

[Tony Wright]

Since the RTR/kit/scratch discussion keeps on coming round (far more regularly than just once a year, as has been pointed out), then I'll reiterate my take on the subject.

 

Only fools don't exploit what's available RTR if it frees up their time to make things which aren't available RTR. In my own case, needing around 100 BR Mk.1 carriages for LB, not to have exploited the Bachmann and latest Hornby ones would have been daft. Yes, they're all modified, but the time saved has enabled me to make the Mk.1s which aren't available RTR; and all those Gresleys (no decent enough gangwayed Gresleys RTR) and Thompsons, plus several ex-LMS types for the top bit. 

 

I don't use RTR steam-outline passenger locomotives because they won't do what I require. That is the ability to haul up to 15 bogies, many of which will be kit-built, and, thus, heavy! RTR steam-outline freight locos tend to be better - Bachmann and Hornby's 9Fs seem pretty good, as do various 2-8-0s, though a Bachmann Austerity won't match a DJH example by any manner of means in haulage capacity. 

 

That's RTR. When it comes to modelling an actual prototype, then most RTP items are of limited use. In Bytham's case, nothing ready-to-plant is of use, though kits have been helpful to a limited extent. Ian Wilson produced Bytham's goods shed as one of his kits in his Prototype range of buildings, and he and I made Little Bytham Junction's signal box by modifying a Ratio kit. That's it, though, and all the other buildings/structures have been built from scratch using card, plastic sheet or metal (mostly not by me, hence they're rather good). 

 

 

The goods shed here is Prototype's actual prototype - the first 'test' kit built by Ian Wilson. I added guttering, downspouts and and details.

 

All the other buildings are scratch-built by Bob Dawson (the pub and station cottages), Ian Wilson (the mill office) and me (Station Road cottages in half-relief). 

 

 

 

 

Ian also modelled the interior of the goods shed.

 

 

Little Bytham Junction signal box was a typical MR design.

 

 

Relatively easily made by Ian Wilson and me using a modified Ratio plastic kit. 

 

I later scratch-built the Whitaker tablet exchange apparatus from bits of brass.............

 

 

Seen just to right of this B12/3 (yes, it's a Hornby RTR one, and all I've done is to renumber it and weather it. It's such a good model, and having already built two B12/3s from kits, I thought this was a quick option for another). 

 

As for any RTP signals? No good, and all Bytham's beautiful signals have been built from scratch or from kits by Mick Nicholson, Tony Gee, Graham Nicholas and Roy Vinter; thanks chaps, they're great! 

 

As for the 'facilities'............

 

 

Norman Turner scratch-built this splendid 'thunder box'! 

 

 

 

 

Bytham's GNR 'box has no RTP or kit equivalent, so Bob Dawson scratch-built it. 

 

 

Out of necessity at the time, I built the girder bridge from a mixture of Airfix parts and brass section. I made the abutments by modifying parts from Ian Wilson's Prototype GC bridge kits. 

 

I also built the retaining wall from Wills sheet.

 

 

My bridge served its purpose for a decade.

 

 

Until Jamie Guest did some CAD work based on the original drawings....

 

 

And Dave Wager built the actual bridge; brilliantly! 

 

My word, it makes a difference.

 

I built the wooden cottages from Wills sheets, and Ian Wilson made Station Road bridge. 

 

The 4MT is scratch-built as well!

 

So, although RTR/RTP might enable time to be saved, if one wants the widest variety of locos/stock, running through a representation of an actual prototype, then it's lots of kit-building and scratch-building. Which is fine by me.  

Edited January 28 by Tony Wright
to add something

[Tony Wright]

I've now painted my two latest Little Engines locos...........

 

 

Thanks to (sought-after) suggestions on here, the J11 is more-accurate than when it first appeared. 

 

 

Unlike the J11, there is no RTR equivalent of this O4/7, so kit-building it has to be.

 

Ian Wilson's Pacific range of front numberplates is most-useful, for every class member's number is present on a sheet. 

 

Both will be weathered, and both are no more than 'layout locos'.

 

This O4/7 is on a layout............

 

 

However, it's rather more than a 'layout loco'. It's Geoff Kent's work, running on his EM Black Lion layout. 

 

Did he use a Little Engine's kit? I don't know, though it's possible. Whatever, it's certainly a splendid loco! 

 

 

[Chamby]

https://fb.watch/pSCyct533C/?
 

Granted this isn’t exactly finescale modelling, but it makes a counter-point about the haulage power of some RTR models.  A ringfield motored tender drive Flying Scotsman from the 1980’s, unmodified, happily hauling 51 Hornby and Bachmann coaches.  It would have pulled more but the layout wasn’t big enough!   Not forgetting of course that the powered tender was additionally propelling the unpowered loco.  I wonder, would it also haul one of Tony’s heavyweight rakes?

 

Later in the clip, a Heljan Falcon diesel loco does the same, again straight out of the box.

[St Enodoc]

5 minutes ago, Chamby said:

https://fb.watch/pSCyct533C/?
 

Granted this isn’t exactly finescale modelling, but it makes a counter-point about the haulage power of some RTR models.  A ringfield motored tender drive Flying Scotsman from the 1980’s, unmodified, happily hauling 51 Hornby and Bachmann coaches.  It would have pulled more but the layout wasn’t big enough!   Not forgetting of course that the powered tender was additionally propelling the unpowered loco.  I wonder, would it also haul one of Tony’s heavyweight rakes?

 

Later in the clip, a Heljan Falcon diesel loco does the same, again straight out of the box.

Good point Phil. On my layout, passenger trains are limited by space considerations to 9 coaches and goods trains to about 20 wagons. My RTR locos (some of which have had weight added and one tender-drive Airfix Castle remains in use) have no trouble with any of these. Most of the layout is level but there is a stretch of 1 in 100, some of which is on a 2'6" radius curve. The long passenger trains there are double-headed, imitating prototype practice.

[Mark Laidlay]

Further to the topic of GC locos and designs here's a ROD operating at Hexham in 1968, Frank Stamford photo.

Edited January 29 by Mark Laidlay

[lezz01]

9 hours ago, gr.king said:

Point taken, and in that case, apology offered. The trouble of course is that the omission of an e is more than a simple spelling error if it turns the meaning of the word into something that is quite different, and some people quite clearly don't know that silicon and silicone are vastly different substances, confusing mis-pronunciation of those two words also being common. Either the mis-spelling or the  pronunciation can sometimes leave one wondering what on earth the intended meaning was. A totally different name for the polymers formed by silicon would have been more sensible, but we're stuck with the existing one.

Apology accepted.

I went through secondary education being told I was stupid and wouldn't amount to anything! However I've qualified and worked as a toolmaker, served my country in the army where I produced fire control data for tactical nuclear missiles, and yes often on the back of a cigarette packet just because we could and it was fun to race against, and beat, the computer.

I've also gained a 2:1 in biochemistry and worked for 25 years as a pharmacy technician. Seems my teachers, who told me I was stupid didn't know the difference between stupidity and dyslexia.

Yes I still need a spell checker to spell dyslexic but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

I'm what is termed as an unconscious compensator which can be a pain in the ass but I can do calculus and 6 gun fire missions in my head!

It also makes me unstable, hence the fact I'm registered disabled and I don't always play nice with other children but I always try to do my best.

So you'll have to forgive me if I come across as a bit highly strung and a little touchy, that'll be the personality disorders you understand. If it wasn't for my lovely, extremely patient wife I would have put myself out of my, and everyone else's, misery a long time ago.

The truth is I don't get on with people so I don't get out much. Although through even the worst of it I've managed to keep my very part time gig in the local pharmacy but they keep me well away from the punters you understand as dead customers can be a bit heavy on the paperwork and doesn't make for good reviews on line but I'm an absolute whiz at the paperwork so they keep me in a box out the back. 

I can just about manage 1 exhibition a year and although I say I'm building an exhibition layout to be honest I'm kidding myself that I'll ever have the confidence to actually exhibit it and although I'd love to be in a club again I don't think it's really going to happen either.

Regards Lez.

[Tony Wright]

7 hours ago, Chamby said:

https://fb.watch/pSCyct533C/?
 

Granted this isn’t exactly finescale modelling, but it makes a counter-point about the haulage power of some RTR models.  A ringfield motored tender drive Flying Scotsman from the 1980’s, unmodified, happily hauling 51 Hornby and Bachmann coaches.  It would have pulled more but the layout wasn’t big enough!   Not forgetting of course that the powered tender was additionally propelling the unpowered loco.  I wonder, would it also haul one of Tony’s heavyweight rakes?

 

Later in the clip, a Heljan Falcon diesel loco does the same, again straight out of the box.

That's quite amazing Phil,

 

I assume the tender-drive 'Scotsman' has traction tyres? 

 

It's interesting that the loco is both pulling and pushing the train. The reason I mention this is because, were the loco just pulling that weight then the front of the train would probably collapse inwards on the curves. That's my experience, even on 3' radius curves.

 

When I tested Accurascale's Deltic on Little Bytham, the maximum number of carriages I could put behind it was near-40 (these were mainly metal ones). Despite the cars having pin-point bearings in their bogies (and, thus, very free-running), by the time 38 carriages had been hooked up, the leading cars just fell inwards on the 180 degree end curves (a demonstration of Newtonian physics?). I was, therefore, unable to find the limit of the Deltic's haulage capacity, though, on a further test, Hornby's magnetic couplings parted when 30 cars were behind the Type 5. 

 

There is no way any of my locos could pull/push 50-odd carriages; not my kit-built ones, anyway. 25 metal ones seem to be possible with Bytham's RA9s, which is more than enough.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

6 hours ago, lezz01 said:

Apology accepted.

I went through secondary education being told I was stupid and wouldn't amount to anything! However I've qualified and worked as a toolmaker, served my country in the army where I produced fire control data for tactical nuclear missiles, and yes often on the back of a cigarette packet just because we could and it was fun to race against, and beat, the computer.

I've also gained a 2:1 in biochemistry and worked for 25 years as a pharmacy technician. Seems my teachers, who told me I was stupid didn't know the difference between stupidity and dyslexia.

Yes I still need a spell checker to spell dyslexic but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

I'm what is termed as an unconscious compensator which can be a pain in the ass but I can do calculus and 6 gun fire missions in my head!

It also makes me unstable, hence the fact I'm registered disabled and I don't always play nice with other children but I always try to do my best.

So you'll have to forgive me if I come across as a bit highly strung and a little touchy, that'll be the personality disorders you understand. If it wasn't for my lovely, extremely patient wife I would have put myself out of my, and everyone else's, misery a long time ago.

The truth is I don't get on with people so I don't get out much. Although through even the worst of it I've managed to keep my very part time gig in the local pharmacy but they keep me well away from the punters you understand as dead customers can be a bit heavy on the paperwork and doesn't make for good reviews on line but I'm an absolute whiz at the paperwork so they keep me in a box out the back. 

I can just about manage 1 exhibition a year and although I say I'm building an exhibition layout to be honest I'm kidding myself that I'll ever have the confidence to actually exhibit it and although I'd love to be in a club again I don't think it's really going to happen either.

Regards Lez.

Good morning Lez,

 

Some of the most intelligent people have dyslexia, though it's only in more-recent times (with regard to education) that it's been recognised. 

 

Certainly, when I started teacher training getting on for 60 years ago now, I don't think the condition was recognised at all (hence your teachers thinking your being 'dim', which clearly you're not). Indeed, as part of my first year teaching practice, I spent a fortnight in an ESN class; the acronym for Educationally Sub-Normal! Can one imagine that today? Who knows, there might have been some quite bright kids, their condition unrecognised and there potential undiscovered and wasted? That said, and in defence of teachers at the time, there were some who were definitely ESN. 

 

I think you're very 'brave' in describing yourself, though I don't think you're kidding yourself with regard to your exhibition layout. Go ahead, build it and exhibit it. You never know, you might have lots of fun. 

 

Anyone who can do calculus has my greatest respect. Yes, I don't need a spell-checker to write it, but that's about all. 'Hard sums' and I parted company many years ago, which is why I taught art!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Chamby]

58 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

That's quite amazing Phil,

 

I assume the tender-drive 'Scotsman' has traction tyres? 

 

It's interesting that the loco is both pulling and pushing the train. The reason I mention this is because, were the loco just pulling that weight then the front of the train would probably collapse inwards on the curves. That's my experience, even on 3' radius curves.

 

When I tested Accurascale's Deltic on Little Bytham, the maximum number of carriages I could put behind it was near-40 (these were mainly metal ones). Despite the cars having pin-point bearings in their bogies (and, thus, very free-running), by the time 38 carriages had been hooked up, the leading cars just fell inwards on the 180 degree end curves (a demonstration of Newtonian physics?). I was, therefore, unable to find the limit of the Deltic's haulage capacity, though, on a further test, Hornby's magnetic couplings parted when 30 cars were behind the Type 5. 

 

There is no way any of my locos could pull/push 50-odd carriages; not my kit-built ones, anyway. 25 metal ones seem to be possible with Bytham's RA9s, which is more than enough.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Yes, it has a rubber traction tyre fitted, which undoubtedly makes a big difference.  Also all of the coaches were relatively light RTR plastic ones, which must have a bearing on the lateral forces in play on the curves.  The layouts minimum radius is about 3 feet.

 

 

[john new]

Going back many years a similar attempt with a Hornby 2-10-0 on the WMRA’s then club layout (Evercreech Junction) failed when the coupling either broke or was pulled off on the lead coach. After this many years I can’t recall how many it was loaded with but it was a lot.
 

Sadly many of the other members present on the day have passed.

[lezz01]

Thank you for the kind words Tony.

My instability does stem from having a high IQ. Without wishing to blow my own trumpet as they say it's tested out in the low 150s with a heavy mechanical bias. I grasp concepts very easily but struggle to connect with people in any sort of social context. I'm almost a recluse and I'm very intolerant of people who are, to me dumb. This can come across as arrogant but I just don't understand why they aren't as clever as I am and become very frustrated which is my failing not theirs. When I'm unwell I can be a danger to myself and others as I can become very violent very quickly. Fortunately I know the signs and can control myself long enough to be able to retreat to my safe space. I have learnt from bitter experience that no mater how well I'm feeling at any given moment I'm never well enough to stop taking my medication. I'm totally incapable of holding down a full time job and have been for the last 20 years. I become overwhelmed by lots of people at one time as I suffer from paranoid delusions and given that I'm a highly trained killer that isn't good. Things never used to be like this but after I suffered my first stroke I lost the ability to control myself properly. You say that I'm brave but I don't see myself as brave just damaged. I never expect nor ask for pity but I do need to be up front about my mental conditions as I have an alternative personality and the monster can take over when I get overwhelmed as the monster feels no pain. I'd really love to be able to interact with people more but it's not really wise for me to do so. My Kimmy is the only person who can switch off the monster so I don't tend to go out without her and should she proceed me into the next life I will join her by my own hand within 24 hours. 

Regards Lez.            

[t-b-g]

Quite a few years ago, we ran a train of 135 wagons around Tickhill & Wadworth, which had 3ft radius curves (EM Gauge). The train went right around the layout and the brake van was a few inches in front of the loco. It would run at various speeds with pulling over into the centre and we didn't get any derailments.

 

I expected it to come off but it didn't.

 

Somebody cleverer than me can explain why some heavy trains pull off the track inwards on a curve and some don't!

 

  

[Compound2632]

17 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

Somebody cleverer than me can explain why some heavy trains pull off the track inwards on a curve and some don't!  

 

You've made it difficult to reply! I make no claims but I'll pop my little clever cloggs on and say it has to do with the ratio between wagon weight and rolling resistance. If everything runs freely, there's likely to be no problem even if the wagons are whitemetal. I think (but this is gut feeling) that it helps to have every wagon about the same weight. But it just needs one bad egg near the rear of the train to pull the whole lot over. 

 

Based not only on theory but on running my 00 wagons round my table-top test-track, which goes down to the infamous second radius.

[Tony Teague]

This is a bit more of a balanced perspective on recent events, and worth a read:

https://thecritic.co.uk/death-of-the-model-railway/

Tony

 

[Tony Wright]

With my J11 and O4/7 painted, it was time to give them a run on Little Bytham, before they become dirty............

 

 

Taken from the roof of the stationmaster's house, the J11 enters Little Bytham on a Down stopper. 'My' head can just be seen between the chimney and the dome, as I note the number. Since I noted the real thing's number at either Chester or Manchester (or anywhere on the CLC in between), then the chances of seeing a Gorton-allocated J11 at LB are very, very remote; in fact, any J11, though one of 36E's allocation might have turned up. 

 

The crew could do with being made dirtier, but, like lamps, a crew is essential for anything running on Bytham (other than visitors). 

 

 

And, off she goes, next stop Essendine. 

 

I think it's in this 'layout' context that I see locos (and stock) I build. I'm not skilled enough to build a highly-accurate, glass case model, but it's important that I make things myself (with considerable help from friends who do the 'other' stuff). 

 

It's just the same with the O4/7.............

 

 

This is a more-likely visitor, since it's shedded in the East Midlands, not the North West.

 

 

As well as the crew, loco tools will be added (after weathering).

 

Now, something to set all heaven in a rage!

 

 

Seen in one of the previous pictures, this is the 3D-printed ex-GC Restaurant Car.

 

According to Longworth, it made it into BR days (just), still as a RU. So, painted brown during the War and then branded by BR. Unlikely? Definitely, but I like the notion, and, after all, all modellers have a set of rules to follow - including Rule 1! 

 

There should definitely be more stuff on the roof (any ideas, please?), and I wish Pressfix transfers for things like 'Restaurant Car' or 'British Railways' wouldn't float all over the place when the backing paper is wetted off. 

 

Those who might be 'outraged' by this, please remember that I'm a sensitive soul.............

 

 

[jwealleans]

5 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

I wish Pressfix transfers for things like 'Restaurant Car' or 'British Railways' wouldn't float all over the place when the backing paper is wetted off. 

 

This.   Couldn't agree more.